Yeah, remember that Converted Mana Cost got changed to Mana Value, so this says Mana Cost, so I'd guess it is telling you you can get things that only have either :0: or :1: printed in the upper right.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
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Yeah, remember that Converted Mana Cost got changed to Mana Value, so this says Mana Cost, so I'd guess it is telling you you can get things that only have either :0: or :1: printed in the upper right.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
Why doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
I am guessing because you can't get the counter for III and then take them off preventing it from being sacrificed, if I understand the rules correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
You can use Hex Parasite to yo-yo between stage I and II to maintain a token engine (but will not work on the stage III). The main thing you're looking for however is to get the anti-Chalice effect down through Chalice, while doubling as a PW killer.
Trade Routes seems to play well with Urza's Saga, can protect itself and bounce with III on the stack to get all options.
Can't wait to see the rest of this artifact cycle of "iconic" spells! I bet red get lightning bolt rock and white gets healing salve rock. Sounds about right...:rolleyes:
How about a Fastbond or Channel rock?Quote:
Originally Posted by the Thin White Duke
White probably gets a garbage token rock.
That’s already happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by the Thin White Duke
Implement of improvement
Expedition map
Wayfarers Bauble
Explosive Apparratus
Reviatilize vs shock is much closer in power level.
You can: gatherer makes explicit that removing the counter won't affect which chapter ability is triggering. Also sagas only sacrifice themselves if their chapter count is equal to their max chapter AND no chapter ability is on the stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
You can do chapter 3 as well:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatherer
If the ability is on the stack and you remove the lore counter, both won't be true simultaneously thus the and condition won't be fulfilled, thus the sacrifice won't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rules
Huh, I thought I had read somewhere that the sacrifice was part of putting the last counter, so that you wouldn't have priority between the "last" counter being placed and the sacrifice being triggered, but maybe I misunderstood.
But you cant tutor up parasite to save the saga. Once it resolves you cant do anything!
Its still a cute synergie, once you get going you could tutor up expedition maps for more sagas... then some moxes for mana... eventually you go back to II and make some huge tokens!
Yeah hella slow but its a LAND-ENGINE how cool is that? like that bad movie mortal engines xD
I am fairly confident that no one, ever, has fully understood how a saga works.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Yeah, having never played with them (or generally thought about them at all), I didn't realize that "and the ability hasn't left the stack" part was shoe-horned in there to forestall the SBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Sagas also have this:Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Which eagle-eyed players might recognize as an intervening if clause. However, unlike most intervening if clauses you can't make this one no longer true, because it uses "was less", which refers to a point in time you can't get back to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Saga Rules
(This is why removing a counter doesn't mess up which chapter is being triggered.)
You don't have to go back.Quote:
Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu
It keeps all of it's abilities from the previous chapters so you'll always be able to make at least 2 tokens.
Yeah, it would be pretty silly if it could fetch Mox Tantalite or Lotus Bloom too. Obviously the old school moxen work well with it. Even stuff like Mox Opal or Chrome Mox as mana sources or Chromatic Sphere or Urza's bauble as ways to recover CA seem like pretty strong fetch options.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Lots of powerful cards. We're probably going to sit out multiple bans again in the next few years. :rolleyes:
Rishadan Porthand is going to be annoying as fuck. Trading mana 1vs1 is much more powerful than 2vs1.
Grief is obviously powerful and much better than Unmask in fair decks.
Timeless Dragon is an extremely powerful addition to white Stompy decks. I've screwing around with Angel of the Ruins/Eternal Dragons lately and this is a straight upgrade to Eternal Dragon. Having land cyclers makes Mox Diamond much more viable. Hell, even color splashes become more feasible with a land cyclers + Mox Diamond - Hullbreacher or Opposition Agent/Plague Engineer or Ramunap/Dryard come into mind. I do have high expectations at this card. You can now easily do something like this:
T1: Sol Land, cycle Dragon
T2: Land, Mox Diamond, Eternalize
You now have 4 mana (unless it was City of Traitors) and a 4/4 flyer in play - at effectively zero card disadvantage.
Grief is going to be better than Thoughtseize. There's lots of ways to get creatures back and just the fact that it's not dead off the top makes it pretty busted. Also can't be stopped by Chalice or Spell Pierce or Thalia etc..
MD Reanimate is going to really strong - either you grab it again to destroy their hand or reanimate their juicy fatty. Imagine stealing Griselbrand on T1. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
This card is part of a cycle and is my prediction for knee-jerk bannings.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Can't put Misthollow Griffin or the 3/3 Eldrazi guy they play into exile. That's all we need to know about Grief.
First it's a cycle, and second it's a t1 double unmask that becomes a triple unmask if you cast Ephemerate instead of cloudshift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Painter's Servant: Do I mean nothing to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Well played sir. Alas there is no pop song reference that talks about painting and the color black/turns on rolling stones :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
I don't think so. If this is the best one, like Force of Negation/cycle in MH1, it will be good but not busted.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
The Ephemerate play seems very, very strong.
If they copy the masques cycle, the red one will also be very good as removalQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
E: unrelated but Grief is a strict upgrade over unmask right?
You can target yourself with Unmask, which is very relevant for reanimator.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
Vine Dryad and Unmask had a baby?! Good Grief.
One can respond to the ETB on Grief with Culling the Weak as well. Burnt Offering and Sacrifice work similarly with the 4 cmc.
Its blinkable in WB Death and Taxes. UB Reanimator will surely try it out since it already plays Reanimate.
UB Reanimator is likely happier playing discard spells. The deck pitches cards to FoW, not Unmask.
I've always dreamed of at least a 2 mana Entomb effect slot 5 through 8. Unmarked Grave is not what I have in mind. Anyway is there a way we can squeeze this through as 1 or 2 of? Or the UB / RB lists are already tight as it is?
Not getting griselbrand is kind of a flop rightQuote:
Originally Posted by jethstriker
1 mana 1/2 islandwalk is also a much worse card than WastesQuote:
Rishadan Porthand is going to be annoying as fuck. Trading mana 1vs1 is much more powerful than 2vs1.
Sorry which fair decks are playing unmask?Quote:
Grief is obviously powerful and much better than Unmask in fair decks.
In a vacuum I think this is a kind of good/cool design, obviously it's a powerful card
I'm a little bit afraid that the ephemerate interaction pushes it over the edge, especially in modern (and I'm afraid of what the other ones in the cycle do for the same reason)
The two cards aren't really directly comparable I don't thinkQuote:
Grief is going to be better than Thoughtseize. There's lots of ways to get creatures back and just the fact that it's not dead off the top makes it pretty busted. Also can't be stopped by Chalice or Spell Pierce or Thalia etc..
There are lots of decks that aren't interested in the creature aspect, won't want to pay 2bb for it and also don't value the 0 mana worth 2-for-1ing yourself
Of course this is still a statement you can make (just like "Griselbrand is better than Thoughtseize" or whatever)
This is anti 1cmc 1/2 Lackey propaganda and we won't have it! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
No Legacy playable cards so far. Everything revealed is either too weak or too conditional.
Grief is pretty much a straight upgrade over Unmask.
I like Unmarked Grave for the Depths Reanimator hybrid. One of the key threats, for a while, was Grave Titan, which isn't legendary. It isn't an efficient way to tutor our Vampire Hexmage, but that is an option. I like Grief for the same deck, it seems like a pretty good value card. If you have an unnecessary Dark Ritual in hand you can either power it out, or if you need to make multiple plays you can pitch the DR/redundant black card to alternative cast it. I think it will go well in a deck that has a healthy amount of redundancy that can spare a card to enable it's 'free' clause.
Manaless Dredge comes to mind as well for Grief, it ticks off all the boxes for being playable in that deck: black creature for Ichorid, free hand disruption like Cabal Therapy, and you really don't care about losing a card when your real hand is your stuffed graveyard. I don't think it makes the deck jump a tier or anything like that, but I do think it's a pretty clean and powerful option for that deck. It might replace Chancellor of the Annex in the decks that play it. While it doesn't do anything for your g2-3, the deck's biggest weakness, it might be a piece of the puzzle.
It can't target yourself, so it still has some competition in decks like RB Reanimator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Miagi
Also, Unmarked Grave seems ok in a deck that wants to play both Life from the Loam and Chalice of the Void, if that's a thing you want to do.