4 Card Blind: Ban-Back Better

4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A
12/12 goes smashy smashy. I almost played a Dark Ritual this week.
6-0

Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrel Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
12/12 is too fast, but City of Traitors is bad for me. I'm glad our test round has a duplicate though.
6-0

Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
Force of Will doesn't hurt me, but Sea's Claim does. If only City of Traitors kept its sacrifice clause!
0-6

dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
Aether Vial + Tangle is always fun because there are so many ways to fill out the deck.
6-0

Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A
Roar!

E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief
Was this added after the fact to make more overlaps so that we'd see it play out more?
6-0

24 points against 5 opponents, one overlap, so (24/5)-1 = 3.8 round points, if I understand correctly.

Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one

4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A - WW
Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :) - WW
dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A - WD - Changle stops the test round sweep.
Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A - WW
E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief - WW - Might be able to win a game against Boaty McBoatface.

BTW, my note isn't a joke. (Short version: deck becomes a library, our cards start in hand, so hand is a more appropriate term than deck)

My deck: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A

Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
0-2
Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
0-2
dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
0-2
Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A
0-2
E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief[/QUOTE]
2-0

so 2-8, That's 6 points for two wins.
Duplicates: Hanger and Ritual. Each used once, so -2.
4 Points for the round.

Testy McGee:
0-8. 0 points
Shared cards: Dark Ritual (1) Hangar (1) Grief (1) -3 points.
Shoot the moon? All loses, check. But: No, forest is not duplicated. No Forest disqualifies the attempt
-3 points total.

New banned list:
Dryad Arbor
Subterranean Hangar
Dark Ritual
Razorlash
Hickory Woodlot
City of Traitors
Mongreel Pack
Akroan Horse
Botanical Sanctum
Force of Will
Seal's Claim
Crashing Footfalls
Asmo
CChancellor of the Tangle
Grief
Aether Vial
City of traitors
Mycosynth Gardens
Dreadnought
Noxious Revival

Silk and 4dogs do count the duplicate fairly differently, i.e. before and after dividing by the number of players.

I am very fine with either system.
In the second case, it is much less impactful, and so not much incentive to build around potential duplicates.

So I will be honest I did not consider season points when I made the rules.
For those who do you may want to consider how to apply? This is basically a hyper-gimmick round a year since last season so maybe you want to skip it.

A penalty of only a single point seems almost irrelevant. Perhaps a penalty of an entire round point is too severe, but I think it'll do a good job of forcing diversity. It might feel a bit random when you get struck down, but the whole thing is just for fun anyway. What do others think of this?

Once you decide this, we're ready to start, right? And to confirm, your time zone is Chicago time, which is CST, Central Standard Time, UTC-6.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

Once you decide this, we're ready to start, right? And to confirm, your time zone is Chicago time, which is CST, Central Standard Time, UTC-6.

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Yes

OK! Let's start round 1. Deadline is the 11th at 6am my time (chicago)
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...rm?usp=sf_link
submit your lists here!

Is the penalty per overlap one match point (the same as you would win for a draw) or one round point?

Also, I assume that the ban list starts blank (except for Lab Man, Thassa's Oracle, and Jace WoM), but it's good to make sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

Is the penalty per overlap one match point (the same as you would win for a draw) or one round point?

Also, I assume that the ban list starts blank (except for Lab Man, Thassa's Oracle, and Jace WoM), but it's good to make sure.

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Question number 3, do we also get a penalty for basic lands, or ate they exempt?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

Is the penalty per overlap one match point (the same as you would win for a draw) or one round point?

Also, I assume that the ban list starts blank (except for Lab Man, Thassa's Oracle, and Jace WoM), but it's good to make sure.

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Imagine a phantom player, who has tied with everyone else this round 0-0-1 except you who they beat 1-0, your score is going to be one point lower than everyone else
Banned list is blank except as stated in the OP.
Whatever is banned in legacy, plus thoracle, jace, and labman (etc)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Question number 3, do we also get a penalty for basic lands, or ate they exempt?

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Exempted in big bold letters

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Exempted in big bold letters

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Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Imagine a phantom player, who has tied with everyone else this round 0-0-1 except you who they beat 1-0, your score is going to be one point lower than everyone else

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Here I still don't get it:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

24 points against 5 opponents, one overlap, so (24/5)-1 = 3.8 round points, if I understand correctly.

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So was Silkster score 3.8 as above, or (24-1)/5=4.6?
That would lead to two very different decks (or hands) for me.


Btw, great idea to have the test round :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

Thanks!



Here I still don't get it:



So was Silkster score 3.8 as above, or (24-1)/5=4.6?
That would lead to two very different decks (or hands) for me.


Btw, great idea to have the test round :)

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24-1
________
5

REMINDER!
You only have the weekend to submit your decks.
I only have entries from Asthereal and dte
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1F...rm?usp=sf_link

Pro tip to FourDogs: don't put the entries for the next round on the score spreadsheet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Pro tip to FourDogs: don't put the entries for the next round on the score spreadsheet

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I think you found a bug in sheets because the entries are supposed to be tied to a spreadsheet only I can see that come directly from the form

It's almost tomorrow!
And the thing about tomorrow is it's the deadline

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A
Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A
dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland, Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope
Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A
Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A

I.... think I messed up here and got too clever. I switched last minute from City to tomb thinking City would be used first, and also wouldn't let me play the man land after t1. But the damage from tomb makes my deck unable to win games.
Butttt two of you fell into my trap card!
Asthreal: Unable to win through leyline. 0-0-2
Dte: Unable to win through sphere, and I can pay the one before you can cast a spell. 0-0-2
Wraith of Pie: You can turn my blocker into a swamp and sphere doesn't stop suspend. 0-2
Silkster: Make the guy a 3/3 and I can't block 0-2.

0-4-4
4 points. No dupes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

Dte: Unable to win through sphere, and I can pay the one before you can cast a spell. 0-0-2

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Maybe you missed wasteland?

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A
6-0. Waste your first land to prevent sphere to resolve, win long time later.
6

Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A
6-0, waste karakas, win long time later.
12

dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland, Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope
Me, on chancellor/wasteland.

Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A
0-6. Swamp is tough to beat.
Edit: 1-4, see below.
12

Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A
6-0, you cannot do much through chancellor + waste.
18

1 other chancellor played, 17 points.
17/4=4,25

Edit: WoP MU.
To win, WoP can't let CC resolves while I still hold Solitude.
Can chancellor race?
Me OTP
T1 fountain go
T1 suspend CC (5)
T2 wasteland, 1c
T2 cc4, unmask, pay tax, discard Solitude.
T3 2c
T3 cc3
T4 3c
T4 2c
T5 cc4
T5 cc1
T6 cc5
T6 ccco, attack with haste d17
T7 cc6
T7 d14
T8 cast chancellor (6c + waste)
T8 d11
T9 W15
T9 d8
T10 W10
T10 d5
T11 W5
T11 d2
T12 W0

With one more turn, WoP should win OTP, and draw OTD (pitch cc to unmask, evil presence my fountain). 4-1 WoP?

It would lead to 18/4=4.5

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

It's almost tomorrow!
And the thing about tomorrow is it's the deadline

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I must have missed the time zone for the deadline. Thought I still had time. Next round!

I had a Channex deck worse than dtes. Would have had a mediocre score and just took away from the other Channex scores.

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A
6-0.

Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A
2-2. You can force a draw by casting nothing and I can't make a threat. I can force a draw by starting with Leyline in play.

dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland, Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope
0-6. I remembered Chancellor earlier in the week, but forgot when submitting. Well played.

Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A
6-0. This is my one slightly interesting match. I need to keep Leyline in hand. I counter either the Unmask or one of the two other cards, and either my 1/1 beats Evil Presence or my growing threat beats Corpulent Corpse.

Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A
I remember being crushed by Leyline Karakas before I knew about the combo, but I haven't really had a chance to play it.

One duplication on the Karakas.
14-1=13
13/4 = 3.25

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I had a Channex deck worse than dtes. Would have had a mediocre score and just took away from the other Channex scores.

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I wouldn't have minded more Chancellor's taking away each other's points. :)

FourDogs is Chicago time, which is relatively late. You get about 6 extra hours compared to those European hosts!

Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A - WW
Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A - WL
dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland, Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope - WD
Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A - LL

4w1d = 13 points

I didn't think anyone would straight up lose to Corpulent Corpse, but FourDogs had to prove me wrong. (Hopefully the daughter's cute to compensate.)

I expected to see cards like Force of Will, Chancellor of the Annex, and Karakas but did not expect to see Corpulent Corpse banned in round 1!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I expected to see cards like Force of Will, Chancellor of the Annex, and Karakas but did not expect to see Corpulent Corpse banned in round 1!

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I thought City of Traitors and Force of Will were already banned.
Or was that a whatever round and were those bannings hypothetical as an exercise?

This season has started out a little confusing for me. But that may be me, I just finished a conference again and my brain is foggy as heck.

Anyway:
Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault DD (uh.. can you not win?)
Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites (me)
dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland, Chancellor of the annex, Solitude LL (you had my deck in mind, I see - I thought this might be too slow)
Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse WL (OTP=OP)
Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will DD (I don't do anything, Cenn's gets countered.)

So 7 points minus 2 for cards played by others gets me 5 points for the round?
If we go for season points divided by opponents, that gets me 5 / 4 = 1,25 SP
Unless I'm missing something, which may very well be the case.

I had a long post but it got eaten. Expect a Jan 1 deadline and I'll write it up hopefully by eod

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

TEST ROUND ENTRIES:
Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)

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I was hoping to see this in the WBURG round:
Pack Leader
Goldhound
Wild Dogs
Banehound

No horse suit though! Akroan Horse was a nice touch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

I was hoping to see this in the WBURG round:
Pack Leader
Goldhound
Wild Dogs
Banehound

No horse suit though! Akroan Horse was a nice touch.

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Yeah, my apologies. I was trying to win this time. Not succesfully, obviously, but still. :cool:

SCORES

Four Dogs 2pts, 0-2-6 (-1)
DTE 18pts, 6-1-1 (-1)
Asthreal 7pts, 1-3-4 (-2)
Silkster 13pts, 4-2-2 (-1)
Wrath of Pie 13pts 4-3-1 (-0)
FTW 0pts

Ok I think after a few hiccups things went pretty well, but I think we should increase the penalty to 2 points starting... NOW.

Deadline:
JANUARY FIRST IS THE DEADLINE FOR THE NEXT ROUND OF DECKS AT SIX AM CENTRAL
You can use the old form to submit decks, since the receiving sheet doesn't care.

Banned list:

Initial cards plus,
Ancient Tomb
Damping Sphere
leyline of the void
mutavault
Chancellor of the Annex
Karakas
Lion's Eye Diamond
Unburial Rites
Foundtain of Cho
Wasteland
Solitude
Evil Presence
Unmask
Corpulent Corpse
Cenn's Tactician
Leyline of Singularity
Force of Will

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asthereal

I thought City of Traitors
Anyway:
Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault DD (uh.. can you not win?).

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I can't because I thought city would be too plentiful so I played the other sol land not remembering that it has a real drawback and thinking I NEEDED the t1 sphere.

Are we past the deadline decks in?

SUBMISSIONS!

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A
Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :)
dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry Notes: N/A
Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!

I thought my 4th card was Foil. Was there a problem with the form entry?
For obvious reasons, Crashing Footfalls makes 0 sense in that deck.

Edit: Leyline of Anticipation, Simian Spirit Guide, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit would have been good!! (A mix of mine & dtes)

Edit2: Hmm it looks like that IS dtes deck and everyone's 4th card got shifted by 1 (except 4Dogs). If the decks don't look right, assume dte's on the Tier 0 deck and solve the puzzle from there.

I'll double check but I'm pretty sure it's just copy and paste. The response sheet is currently public so if it needs correcting you can

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

I'll double check but I'm pretty sure it's just copy and paste. The response sheet is currently public so if it needs correcting you can

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I think all the 4th cards are wrong.

I'm on Foil, Asthereal is on Footfalls, dte is on Burning Inquiry, and Wrath is on Chrono instead of a 3 card deck.

Edit: For the Function POSTABLE, the argument for Card 4 references the wrong row in column E. Notice how the number is different for E vs the others?
This error only happened in round 2. I don't know why. The code needs to be fixed. I didn't have access to edit the code.

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: Round "4th card blind" - extrapolate the unknown 4th card.

Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls
OTP Inquiry gets you.
OTD you suspend Footfalls. If I wait to Foil, you Daze me. If I cast Inquiry, you Daze me.
WL 3-3

dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry
If you Inquiry first, I Foil you and only I get a Spirit! So you do nothing.
If I Inquiry, we both get Nether Spirits. So I do nothing either.
DD 2-2

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton
OTP Inquiry gets you.
OTD if you lead with Sphere, I have to Foil, then Nether Spirit stares at Chrono.
WD 4-1

Fourdogs: memnite, memnite, memnite, memnite
OTP Inquiry gets you.
OTD I Foil a Memnite but can't race 3, so I stay back to block.
WD 4-1

13 points (3 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss)
Overlap: Burning Inquiry & Nether Spirit (-4)
13-4=9 pts

dte's build is much better, but at least I took 4 points off!

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A - DL
Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :) - WW - Chronomaton will always resolve, and I will have mana to make it larger even through Ghost Quarter.
dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, Burning Inquiry Notes: N/A - LL
Fourdogs: memnite, memnite, memnite, memnite Notes: hand empty attack attack - WW - Missed opportunity to call it Memenite.

4w1d = 13 points

Field of Ruin was a dud, but at least it didn't cost me 2 points.

0-1-1 1 point FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A
0-1-1 1 point Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :)
0-2 dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry Notes: N/A
0-2 Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!

2 points 4 me