Phyrexian Dreadnought + Berserk + Fling (or Fling + Fork)
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Phyrexian Dreadnought + Berserk + Fling (or Fling + Fork)
Not really! You cannot target the creature equipped with Lightning Greaves to equip it again. So you need a second creature to equip and than the first creature can sworded in response to the equip!Quote:
Originally Posted by raharu
Some old, janky ones.
Iridescent Drake + Abduction + a sac outlet
(2.5/6/6+)
The Drake into play, getting Abduction from GY. now you got a crature that does not die. The combo is disruptable to any creature removal, as well as any GY hate, and things like Meddling Mage.
The most common sac outlet is Altar of Dementia or Goblin Bombardment.
Also, I'd like to note that 2 Karmic Guide(1 in GY and 1 in play) also have simiar interaction.
Goblin Charbelcher/Mana severance
(2/9/8?)
Belcher away with no land in library. Any Needle/mage effect kills the combo, but the deck will prebably be in control shell, so there.
Gosh, I really never EVER seriously thought I would be directing people to this, but somehow here we are discussing it.
http://mtgsalvation.com/676-what-nex...ing-elves.html
Sensei, Sensei is very strong in CounterTop as the win condition despite it's 4-card dependency.
The key is that both Enlightened Tutor and Mystical Tutor function to find the pieces and so only 1 or 2 Helms and 1 or 2 Brainfreeze are required to run the combo. That leaves your 4 CB and 4 Tops and a hell of a lot of WU denial/removal. Both tutors function independently with Counterbalance, making them more than just search pieces for the combo, they're answers also.
With the amount of reshuffle effects in play it's not hard to find the combo, and with the theme of the deck it's not hard to live for the 6 or 7 turns it takes to assemble it under worst case conditions.
The last piece in the strength of the combo is that it totally invalidates the opponent's creature removal in game 1.
http://magicdeckvortex.com/DDB/locke...7_extended.htm
It's in extended, so with the Legacy cardpool, it could have some potential.
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes
I'd use Chromatic Stars and Spheres for some deck thinning as well as more hits at cc1 with a "blind" counterbalance.
Can this have some potential?
4 Locket of Yesterdays
4 Chromatic Star
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Artificer's Intuition
4 Counterbalance
2 Humility
1 Moat
1 Wrath of God
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
2 Island
is it just too janky to leave behind? Remember, this is just a VERY fast decklist I just came up with. If it has a little bit of potential, I'll test and post within a couple of days.
You might want a win condition in there. Something that can benefit from the infinite storm you generate from the combo.
First off Standstil is horrible here, you want to dig for combo/ -whatever pieces in the first turns and keep control as good as possible, Thirst is definitly more powerful here.
Beside this, i also worked on the same concept, but there is one little thing that ruins your day in this kind of shell: Unlike SOTS you have no Squee like Artifact to create cardadvantage and dig for pieces at the same time.
If there would be a 0-1 CMC artifact that returns itself in your upkeep this type of deck would be in a pretty good position.
I would enable far more broken things though :cool:
So till then, you have to make sure that you can refill your hand, Thoughtcast and Thirst are a starting point.
Good luck with the concept, its pretty cool and i ll keep watching.
Lich+Nourishing Shoal has always been one of my favorites. :wink:
So here we go for one of my favorite and as old as it gets:
Enduring Renewal + Goblin Bombardment (2/6/1)
I would put that one at 2/6/1
Where the 1 is obviously a 0 artifact-creature (ornithopter, shield sphere etc...)
So effective for so many years, it has to be in the list.
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes
Another one less well-known:
Niv-Mizzet + Curiosity (2/7/0)
Although arguably, I play it with a reanimator shell to offset Niv-Mizzet casting cost.
Very effective and stylish! And can win turn 3, that's a real cracker!
Grave dependency: No
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: No
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes
They are 2 combos I play over and over, and once it hits the table, that's game over in 95% of the cases.
I disagree. If you Force the the Thopter, or Stifle the trigger, the combo ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothian
To the mods, if this post disrupts the flow of the thread, by all means delete it. I don't want to throw it off, but I feel as though it should be pointed out.
The trigger of Enduring Renewal can be responded to with Crypt, I believe, and Leyline also shuts it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
Ok Ok...
Mea culpa
I actually didn't know about the changing in the rules from 2006 for Enduring renewal, where it is not a replacement anymore (weird...), so yeah you can stifle and tormod crypt it...
well, anything is forceable, I mean show me a combo where all cards are not forceable.
But well, is it all that important..
If you compare it to Finn's sock theory... or logic for that matter, it makes a lot more sense to play Loyal Retainers because you don't have to stretch the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Illissius
Something that should be taken into account (though I don't think it can be mathematically X/X/X/Y-wise) is how well the rest of the deck can function in the meantime / while assembling.
Crypt Champion opens you up to losing to Mogg Fanatic, Loaming Shaman, and tons of other opposing creatures. It also loses you two creatures instead of one if disrupted. Finally, Crypt Champion requires you to play 3-4 colors instead of 2.
Is there some way to represent this in our X/X/X/Y categories?
EDIT: A newer combo is Reveillark + Nantuko Husk + Saffi Eriksdotter... but 3 card combos are supposed to be better than this, and this is vulnerable to way too much, not to mention takes 3 colors.
With Loyal Retainers, you have to sacrifice Saffi targeting the Retainers, let the ability resolve, then use the Retainers' ability. If, in response to Saffi's ability, the opponent kills the Retainers (with Fanatic or anything else) or RFGs the Saffi, the combo is disrupted. You lose both creatures if a kill spell was used, and only one if it was graveyard hate. The colour point stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isamaru
Oh yeah. Throw in Leolin Shikari (instant speed equip).Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEater
Allright here a serious one. I don't know if I got the figures right: but Salvager Game
2/7/4
The two you need for the combo are Gamekeeper and Cabal Therapy/Innocent Blood. The cost is for casting Gamekeeper/ Cabal Therapy the first time and Returning the LED the first time with Salvager. The Chaff is Auriok Salvager, Lion's Eye Diamond, Chromatic Star and Pyrite Spellbomb
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes (Needle on Salvager)
Stiflabitiliy: Yes(Gamekeeper trigger?)
Forceability: Yes (Gamekeeper, or sometimes LED)
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes(Gamekeeper or Salvager)
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Yes(0 shuts of LED, 1 shuts of Spellbomb/Star)
You have Future Sight, Helm of Awakening and Sensei's Divining Top too. But that one is almost strictly worse than Sensei Sensei. The only advantage is that you have 1 piece less. 2x Sensei/Helm of Awakening/Brain Freeze is 4 pieces. And that Sensei/Future Sight, is pretty got by itself.
3/7-9/1
If you play Helm of Awakening first you can get a cheaper Future Sight and Top. You can get the CC down to 6 if you use Rector.
Grave dependency: No
Needleability: Yes (Sensei)
Stiflabitiliy: No( well they might Stifle Sensei)
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: No
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: Yes
This is not my combo( well the twoabove neither) I don't really know the real strenght of the combo: Academy Rector / Kaervek's Spite. You play Rector, EOT Spite. Rector searches for Barren Glory. Win in your upkeep.
2/7/1
Grave dependency: Yes(Rector Trigger)
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes( note: countering Spite does nothing)
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes( although, you can always Spite in response and they can't plow in response)
Disenchantability: Yes
Chaliceability: No
BB
There's also straight Bomberman:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benie Bederios
3/4/0
Combo involves Salvagers, Diamond and Spellbomb/Chromatic
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: Yes
Stiflabitiliy: Yes, but stops the combo for just a turn.
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Yes (0 shuts of LED, 1 shuts of Spellbomb/Star)
I will probably lag behind quite a bit bringing the opening post up to date... sick and need to catch up with my course, but I'm appreciating the responses.
The numbers aren't the end of it all, especially not if the enablers are true engine cards like Survival that can squeeze out additional mana by tutoring up Rofellos or having Volrath's Shapeshifter come into play as a Palinchron... I generally make as few assumptions as possible while remaining realistic.
For the same reason, I generally don't count tutors-on-speed as one-card combo, and am equally reluctant to include non-foolproof methods like Gamekeeper - if you include something to ensure you get what you need in the yard the thing is so unwieldy it's not practicable.
Why not Orim's Chant and Isochron Scepter. :w: per turn to lock your opponent out of the game (save a thresholded Barbarian Ring) sounds like game over to me.
If your opponents scoops to scepter/chant, well... he's a pretty bad player/deckbuilder... He can still play instants, thus digging for answers (brainstorm, predict, whatever). And then just play the answer (which are most likely also instants - see Krosan Grip).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihsan
Well, it is the classic scepter/chant combo... neat on the surface, but that's about it. In any case, if you want to use it, don't assume it'll win you the game by itself or you're in for a big surprise.
You can respond to Scepter activations... also like every deck that can runs 3-4 krosan grip side. And its actually :2::w: not :w:... anyways, its annoying at best not game over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihsan
Well, not every deck is prepared to Scepter-Chant G1.
- Goblins doesn't have an out unless have an active vial, tinkerer or SGC.
- Stax, Ichorid, Rock, PoX, Pikula, AggroLoam, Dragon Stompy, Survival Doesn't have an out preside.
- Thresh-like decks have just FoW and Stifle.
Sure, G2 and 3 they have plenty hate to board in, but I'll not dismiss it that fast. It's better than Mogg Maniac + Fire Covenant.
Pestermite + Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker = Infy hasty copies of pestermite
Scepter/Chant doesn't win the game. While it might herald a game win, many decks have an out and most should... instant-speed artifact destruction or even general-purpose tools: Counter the Chant, play a Pithing Needle.
Generally, I'm not including gamebreaking plays that don't win on their own; the Trix combo is the weakest win I'm still prepeared to include. A Trinisphere followed up by a Smokestack might not leave an option to break out of the lock... or it might be meaningless if the opponent has enough on the table to finish the job. Again, too situational.
***
Point taken about Pestermite and Kiki. In they go, although I don't think I'd usually plan on hardcasting them.
A really bad combo I came up with. Crusading Knight and Urborg, Tomb of yawgmoth. I know, it's horrible. :tongue:
Has anyone yet mentioned Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary + Staff of Domination?
Infinte life, infinite green mana and infinite card draw for 2 cards? Only thing that is required is 5 lands in play xD
You could of course use another creature that produces 5 or more mana. Priest of Titania, for example. Best card here is metalworker though, no wonder it's banned.
Rofellos is already in most Survival decks, right? Maybe an artifact tutor creature and one staff could make it out of another kill condition?
This is one of my favorite combos that I never managed to make work in a deck. I can't justify running Rofellos outside of Survival, and I can't justify running a non-Survivalable combo in Survival when I'd never get the Rofellos without the Survival anyway. And when I -do- get Rofellos/Staff, my manabase gets eaten before it hits the requisite 5 Forests needed for insanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
Other neat cards with Staff of Domination (Besides the obvious Cabal Coffers):
Magus of the Coffers (Neat as a kill in Mono Black Control)
Priest of Titania / Wirewood Channeler (Redundancy)
Braid of Fire (Mostly cute and fun, but not terribly useful. Try this with Paradox Haze for ultimate bizarre scrubbery fun.)
@Taco: Staff only untaps creatures, which doesn't allow for infinite combos with Cabal Coffers. Magus of the Coffers could surely do, but hmm...
Composite Golem + Corpse Dance + random storm-spell (2/6/1)
That's actually 2/5/1 if you can get the Golem into the yard in the first place. Neat how you don't have to, though.
While I'm at it, Defense of the Heart (w/ Kiki-Jiki & Pestermite in deck) = 1/4/2.
With Hunted Troll as enabler! :D It could look good. Also, fetching two bringer of the blue dawn almost spells GG. It would just be kinda slow.
Enduring Renewal/Phyrexian Dreadnought/Altar of Dementia
3/4/0
Takes until turn 4 to get into play with appropriate acceleration or turn 5 with no acceleration. It's slow and you can see it coming a mile away but it decks on turn 4 or 5.
You play Altar of Dementia at first reasonable opportunity and then Enduring Renewal the following turn. If you're playing Dark Ritual you can half deck people the turn Enduring Renewal comes into play otherwise you're waiting for the next turn.
The combo is vulnerable to all graveyard hate and counterspells. It is not vulnerable to Swords to Plowshares because you can always re-activate Altar of Dementia in response to their StP after activating it the first time.
I see the combo fitting in as a secondary kill option in a Stifle-Nought or Vision Charm-Nought theme.
Been there, done that, played it and it works only against aggro. If your opponent stops your staff then the deck does nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
Hunted Troll is horrible. 8 mana combos are not tech. Believe me I've tested Hunted Troll with defense of the Heart. It's waaay too slow. You're better off running Forbidden Orchard and Crop Rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by willoe
I am testing dreadnought+ greater good.
you draw 12 then do it once more discard sutured ghoul and play shallow grave for the win with four fow you have drawn backup.
It is not really grave dependant cause you still draw 12 cards.
Does that really work? If so, I'd probably play the combo in some storm based combo shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
As mentioned in the Shadowmoor thread - if the spoiled cards are correct, then
Swans of Bryn Argoll
2{wu}{wu}
Creature - Bird Spirit
Flying
If damage would be dealt to Swans of Bryn Argoll, prevent that damage. The controller of the damage's source then draws cards equal to the damage prevented in this way.
4/3
plus Chain of Plasma would be a decent combo: 2/6/0 (you draw your deck, so you'd need SOME artifact mana in it...).
No you don't. Play combo control all the way and win on the spot with the only acceleration consiting of 4 (for consistensy increasements) Simian Spirit Guides and 1 Desperate Ritual and Lightning Storm.
EDIT: 4 SSG are for Chain of Plasma at instant speed anytime, then later 2 spirit guides, then 1 desp rit for lethal lightning storm. Forgot to explain that.
In fact, the "little" Plasma Swans/Hot Wings/Swan's Song/Chain Song whatever thread has a decklist that goes off at instant speed (exluding lands and swans) and can win through a STP, if anyone should have missed it.
Protean Hulk, Show and Tell, Cabal Therapy or Phyrexian Tower (2/3/1)
Grave dependency: Yes
Needleability: No
Stiflabitiliy: Yes
Forceability: Yes
Wastelandability: No
Swordsability: Yes
Disenchantability: No
Chaliceability: Unfair