[Deck] Affinity

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

I'm starting to think a 3/3 split with Drum is the best here since Mox opal is far more explosive in the opener, and multiple Drums ain't exactly stellar either.

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Your are right on that. I was thinking the same thing, but you said it first. The newer lists that I've seen posted have cut the land count from the older Vial Affinity builds. I supose that you can get away with this because you are replacing 1cc spells (Worker, Vial) with 0cc spells (Memnite, Mox). Of course, the first Mox you play replaces a land, but additional ones must replace spells. Do you find that 16 lands (17 if you count a mox) is the right number?

Before SoM I played 6 Drum/Vial. I started with a 3/3 split and evenutally settled on a 4/2 split in favor of Vial. That seemed to be the correct number of mana accelerators. With Mox replacing Vial, you might try a 4/3 Drum/Mox split, considering that the first mox replaces a land.

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Originally Posted by Tao

I've toyed a bit with that and Steel Overseer and found something that I believe is a interesting list. It is explosive thanks to all the low drop and quite consistant. Steel Overseer is an insane 2-drop with the extremely high creature count.

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I really wanted to like Overseer when I first saw it, but I just don't like it in this deck. It's not fast enough. I'm toying with an AfFOWinity build and have Overseers in that because it's a slower controlling deck. I think I will test it out a little more myself, but I'm glad your happy with it.

I would like to take some time here to apologize to Disciple of the Vault. He's back in my deck and I've cut back drastically on Painsmith. As Izor said, it's the worst top deck possible; and affinity is often living in top-deck mode. I still think it's a good card and I have a couple still in the deck, but it's on the bubble for me.

Overseers seems to be a good combination with Thopter Foundry more than anything. But then it doesn't really do much for THIS deck in particular.

Looks like we're waiting for another 3 months for any decent overhaul additions to our archetype.

I have very different results of them. In theory I also thought they weren't exciting but when I tested them they were great, a good addition to the list of gamebreakers (Plating,Ravager,Master). With a pure Artifact+Thoughtcast list it usually distribute 3-6 counters every turn from turn 3 on (from T2 on and every once in a while with Mox) unless they kill it. A solid, but not spectacular draw would be for example T1 Worker, Thopter, T2 Overseer, Frogmit, T3 one more guy and he already gives 5 counters.

Overseers are amazing. They turn terrible hands into good ones (like one with no Master/Plating but with Thopter, Memnite or Frogmite). Plus, Overseer is incredibly helpful when your Master or Plating gets countered/gripped/pridemaged/etc.

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [HOP] Great Furnace
3 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [9E] Ornithopter
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
2 [HOP] Myr Enforcer

// Spells
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [HOP] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [SOM] Galvanic Blast
3 [FNM] Shrapnel Blast

4 Mox Opal has been treating me very well. It gives remarkable speed to the deck that outweighs the possibility of drawing a second, plus it allows me to go down to 3 Springleaf drum. The blasts are for either lategame damage or removing blockers. I generally wait as long as I can before using a blast, since the deck has plenty of mana (4 mox, 3 springleaf and 16 lands). I may go -1 Shrapnel blast, +1 Etched Champion.

In testing, Etched Champion, especially in tandem with Cranial Plating, has single-handedly won games against creature-based decks. A sideboard card for sure, if not maindeck material.

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Originally Posted by hypaflight

Well the pro's and cons of Worker vs. Memnite have yet to defined btw. Maybe someone would care to do the sample opening hands.

As for burn, yes I think it's the only good thing we got from SoM. Which is very VERY sad. I'll probably be cringing in my seat as I playtest some red in my build. I'll try a package of 4 Galvanic Blasts and 2 Shrapnel Blast to augment the reach of the deck and to answer Jace.

Also, I've been having a tough time against combo - which I believe most of us do anyway. But is there any tool in our SB we can use to answer a cheated out Emrakul via doomsday combo or whatnot?

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Unless you want to play karakas, no. The way to win here is to race as fast as you possibly can, hope they go to less than 5 life when they resolve DD, and galvanic blast them in the face or shrapnel blast them in the face or a combination of both.

The problem with steel overseer is he is a bad topdeck. Sure if he gets out turn 1 alongside a thopter or memnite he is a beast but on turn 7 he is absolutely awful to play. Or if you keep a hand chock full of 0 drops and frogmites and they answer the overseer you are SOL. The upside is he can be absolutely bomby in multiples and that if left unanswered a few turns wins you the game.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

The problem with steel overseer is he is a bad topdeck. Sure if he gets out turn 1 alongside a thopter or memnite he is a beast but on turn 7 he is absolutely awful to play. Or if you keep a hand chock full of 0 drops and frogmites and they answer the overseer you are SOL. The upside is he can be absolutely bomby in multiples and that if left unanswered a few turns wins you the game.

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Memnite, Arcbound Worker, Frogmite, Springleaf Drum all are awful topdecks. However, what would you rather drop T 7 - Frogmite, Memnite, Worker, Drum or Overseer?

If you care for things that happen Turn 7, then you should play another deck, I guess. You have to win early before they can start to handle your initial onslaught.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

Uhope they go to less than 5 life when they resolve DD, and galvanic blast them in the face or shrapnel blast them in the face or a combination of both.

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That's assuming I run red. Which right now seems sensible but we have other options too which I'll get to later on.

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The problem with steel overseer is he is a bad topdeck. Sure if he gets out turn 1 alongside a thopter or memnite he is a beast but on turn 7 he is absolutely awful to play.

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True. But we do play with the oppurtinity cost in mind. We run a boatload of bad topdecks.

Also, an idea I've been toying is the inclusion of Quest for the Holy Relic. Like all the funny memnite WW decks people are talking about nowadays. It gives us that slow turn 1 but an explosive set into Cranial to bash in quicker. It also gives us access to W for PTE's and Cannonists of the SB.

Any thoughts?

I'm currently kicking around the following list on MWS and god dang it's crazy - it's essentially nothing but a bunch of free spells powering out a bunch of what is probably the most overpowered, undercosted effects in their particular niche in the game - whether that be mana acceleration, burn, card draw, equipment or creatures. "Only" 46 artifacts all in all but without Myr Enforcer four artifacts in play are all I need to reach affinity (and that is by turn 2 at the very latest anyway). The lack of Green for Krosan Grip hasn't been a problem yet as I usually can deal enough damage before damage preventers come into play to finish the opponent off with non-combat damage, and I would rather add Explosives to the sideboard than substitute the Citadels for Tree of Tales as is. This might change once people catch on and start playing sideboard hate but as it is it really isn't needed.

// Lands
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Great Furnace
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [SOM] Galvanic Blast
2 [MR] Shrapnel Blast

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap

I'd still cut some SB space for 3 Etched Champion. They rape aggro.

Still, nice decklist. I like how you cut mana costs to the max. Still, doesn't CotV hurt you even more this way? Set at 1 it blocks lots of your stuff too.

I wouldn't play quest for the holy relic. I would rather play stoneforge mystic and that card in affinity is probably not that good because it is slow unless you rip a god draw with tons of mana and ways to dump your hand on turn 2 and turn 3 can play and equip an equipment probably plating since all the swords cost 5 mana to cast and equip, jitte costs 4 to play and equip, while plating costs 3 a much more realistic possibility.

Nidd stalemates do happen in legacy where both sides simply sit there and wait to topdeck cards if their board presence is equal. I'm talking about one of those cases so it can reach turn 7 with both players playing draw go types of games until one topdecks something to swing the game in their favor.

Etched champion probably merits SB space in every list of affinity simply because aggro is the dominant archetype right now. Unless your entire meta consists of lots of affinity I don't see why you wouldn't include him as at least a 3 of if not 4 of. The guy is just so bomby when he lands it isn't even funny what you can do with that guy.

It's mainly set to 0 to buy turns versus combo decks (taking out ornithopters). I'm not really all that scared of opposing 1-drops so I usually don't bring it in versus aggro/control, but that said I do have Ravager/Shrapnel Blast shenanigans to reset it if need be. I haven't really tried it, but I'm not convinced about Etched Champion - I already have an awful lot of zero-mana critters to equip with plating, it is rather slow (never ever pull MoE when siding) and at two power it won't win many damage races without plating, which can still be targeted by sideboard hate.

It's not big, but it chump-blocks Goyfs, Knights and God-knows-what before they can bash your ass. It helps against Zoo and Goblins, which are usually faster and more consistent than you are. Trust me, I tried Champion vs Goblin. They simply can't get through it.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

Nidd stalemates do happen in legacy where both sides simply sit there and wait to topdeck cards if their board presence is equal. I'm talking about one of those cases so it can reach turn 7 with both players playing draw go types of games until one topdecks something to swing the game in their favor.

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I know that they can occur, but this deck is going to lose them nearly every time and that problem comes from deckdesign itself, not just the individual cardchoices. Arguing that a card is a bad topdeck isn't really an argument, considering that this deck runs literally only bad topdecks.

I concede Nidd this deck does have god awful topdecks....when I think "Rip disciple off the top" it is usually just another land/mana card. There's really no way to fix the deck design problem of bad topdecks since we must run the full suite of memnite's + ornithopters to be fast enough to compete along with drums and moxen now. If only we had some more card draw other than thoughtcast to get good card quality oh well maybe in the next two sets we'll get something. And don't argue for riddlesmith's inclusion please that card is awful since it battles with all of our other 2 drops those being ravager and plating, the two best cards in the deck and not being an artifact is dissynergystic with the rest of the deck.

Champion on board against any aggro deck is a house. If he were 2 mana for a 1/1 with his ability he would be broken the only thing holding him back is his 3 mana cost and being just a pro everything 2/2. Goblins could never deal with that guy because he blocks piledriver's like a champion and he walks right past them with either ravager counters or a plating. I think we can establish that the card is incredible against aggro.

For lists with steel overseer what do you usually cut to include him? Just curious. The list is really tight so finding a card to cut to include him might be a bit of a pain.

That's the list I test atm:

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [HOP] Vault of Whispers
4 [HOP] Tree of Tales

// Creatures
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [SOM] Memnite
3 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [HOP] Master of Etherium
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [9E] Ornithopter

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
3 [ARB] Thopter Foundry
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [LRW] Springleaf Drum

Hella unconventional, but it works for me. If you want to include Overseer in the generic Aggro lists, I don't know what to exclude, tbh.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

I concede Nidd this deck does have god awful topdecks....when I think "Rip disciple off the top" it is usually just another land/mana card. There's really no way to fix the deck design problem of bad topdecks since we must run the full suite of memnite's + ornithopters to be fast enough to compete along with drums and moxen now. If only we had some more card draw other than thoughtcast to get good card quality oh well maybe in the next two sets we'll get something. And don't argue for riddlesmith's inclusion please that card is awful since it battles with all of our other 2 drops those being ravager and plating, the two best cards in the deck and not being an artifact is dissynergystic with the rest of the deck.

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I think Dark Confidant should be tested very seriously now with all :0: mana spells in the deck. Here's the list I run at the moment:
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Great Furnace
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum

4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Dark Confidant
4 Master of Etherium

4 Galvanic Blast
2 Shrapnel Blast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
The average mana cost is 1.166, so Bob looks safe. And you can always side him out for Etched Champion against aggro. And IMHO 4 Mox Opal are nice 'cause it enables turn 1 Bob/Plating wich is absolutely nuts.

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// Lands
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [MR] Great Furnace
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers

// Creatures
4 [DS] Arcbound Ravager
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [MR] Ornithopter
4 [MR] Disciple of the Vault
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium

// Spells
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [FD] Cranial Plating
3 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [SOM] Galvanic Blast
2 [MR] Shrapnel Blast

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I've been testing Infinitum's list and I really like it, although I didn't like the Shrapnel Blasts and replaced them with Steel Overseer. I also didn't find Disciple of the Vault to be necessary, since he is really bad without Ravager. I've been trying Vedalken Certarch instead. Thoughts on this guy? He's essentially Goyf removal, but if you play him on turn one he's also a Rishadan Port. He lets your Frogmites/Memnites swing through even after they're outclassed. Obviously he is a lot worse than Disciple against mass removal, but he's much better in the aggro matchups.

It definetly warrants consideration seeing as Disciple is the sole reason we're in black to begin with and lackluster in the damage dealing department without Ravager (albeit alleviating the drawbacks of Shrapnel & Mox Opal are nice), it still has obscene damage potential with ravager and in
conjunction with burn and draw provides reach versus sweepers (which is very relevant indeed since the deck is built to go all in from the get go). Dunno what to put in instead however.. Certarch is certainly a possibility (switching out Vault for Blinkmoth Nexus and possibly a Glimmervoid to preserve some sweeper insurance), but I'm having some trouble with dedicated control as is. White for Stoneforge Mystic (Cranial Plating pretty much solves the bad creature problem by itself, and singleton miser Jitte for the aggro matchups is also tempting) with Orim's Chant and Ethersworn Canonist in the board looks decent as well, but would in all likelihood require more lands.

I wouldn't remove Shrapnel Blast however since again with the all in mindset the drawback is pretty much neglible and Overseer still isn't enough to give us inevitability in drawn out games. Card has been testing great.