Right. Just like tarmogoyf is useless because people play swords to plowshares.
Combo decks NEVER go off without lots of protection. That's why they always beat blue decks. Fer shizzle.
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Right. Just like tarmogoyf is useless because people play swords to plowshares.
Combo decks NEVER go off without lots of protection. That's why they always beat blue decks. Fer shizzle.
If you're in Black this is basically just a horridly more narrow way of handling combo than using Duress, Thoughtseize, and Extirpate.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
If you're not in Black either, than chances are that you'd need to devote so much SB space to winning the matchup that it's not worth it anyways. I could see a possible exception if you're running some sort of Chalice Stompy deck, but otherwise is it really worth the slots when it's not remotely guaranteed to win you the matchup?
I don't get it, you said it was good because it gave non-blue decks an answer to storm, but it doesn't really, given how non-blue decks already have a terrible matchup against storm combo, and this card isn't going to cut it.
It's not the same thing as the "it dies to removal" argument because this card only really answers one card: Tendrils (or Brain Freeze, but nobody plays that anymore :rolleyes:). Would a card that says: kill target Tarmogoyf break Thresh? No, at most it's going to be an annoying sideboard card. Nobody maindecks Deathmark right? And that card kills alot more things than "Kill target Goyf".
Plus, you might catch someone off guard in a few games in the beginning, but it's not going to stay like that once people pick up on it. If this card actually picks up steam in nonblue decks (and that's a big if), then the storm pilot will just make sure to play around it. They already have such a good matchup anything nonblue based anyway. I personally hate Gaddock Teeg alot more than this "Counter target Tendrils" card.
If you're playing Chalice Stompy and you're losing to combo UR DOING IT WRONG. Seriously. T1 Chalice@1 T2 Clock beats like 3/4 of the combo decks in Legacy right now.
The real place for this card isn't by color, it's by specific deck. Let's take a random deck that's got overall good matchups and a fast clock but folds to combo. Say, Goblins. Combo can usually just outrace goblins. However, to do so, the combo deck generally has to try and goldfish itself as well, which means no or minimal disruption. Which means voila! Blammo. Goblins gets the extra turn or so it needs to win.
This also greatly helps green, which now has probably its first relevant anti-combo card that isn't an artifact/permanent. (outside of Root Maze, but seriously, who plays that card?)
Okay. That's fair. The combo player figures he doesn't have to Duress your white deck and you show him this in response to Tendrils. He's not playing TES or Doomsday or whatever other storm decks play Burning Wish, so he scoops.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
Now it's game two (let's go out on a limb and say you have these main). He doesn't side out Chant. You're all excited because you drew one of the four copies of a spell in your sixty card deck that'll let you stop the redundancy, tutor-packed machine sitting across from you. EOT, Mr. Combo Man plays Mystical Tutor. Well, that's all he's done this turn, so you can't play this. He gets Duress/Chant/Silence. He untaps, draws, Duress/Chants/Silences you, and bends you over while you stare sorrowfully at your one out to his deck.
But wait! There's game three! Maybe he won't draw Ad Nauseum or Mystical Tutor or any of the copies of his protection spell! Maybe, even if he does, you'll be able to get this guy in! Well, he draws AN but no protection, goes LED, Rit, Cabal Rit, AN, you exile AN and pat yourself on the back. But wait, he's got mana open...he plays a Petal/Land/Rit/Cabal Rit/Rite of Flame and drops...INFERNAL TUTOR! LED in response, and there's our old friend AN/Tendrils. Whoops. You only had one Mindbreak Trap in hand. Round over.
But let's be more realistic here and assume you don't have these main. You lose game one (duh, you're not in blue) and side these in for game two. If you don't draw one, or lose it to a Duress, you lose game two and the round. If you play it in response to Tendrils, you need to be able to repeat that performance in game three or you're toast. You're not in blue, so how much cheap manipulation are you playing? Likely not much. What are the chances of you drawing this and your opponent not being bright enough to plan for it in game three? I'll leave that up to you to decide.
Really, blue beats storm because blue packs at least eight counters and eight cheap manipulation spells, and at some point storm can't fight through that, even if those spells won't magically stop Tendrils. You're playing four copies of one spell that you can't even pay the mana cost for as your disruption suite! Seems weak.
why can't I squeeze in 1 Chant/Silence/Duress when I'm goldfishing against gobbos again?
Modern storm decks kills off 3 things, mostly AdN (of which I can play EOT against you off a single Ritual most of the time, since I suspect now you are playing with this trap card), in which I would draw a bajillion cards on my turn, and have all the mana and cards in the world to play Chant/Silence/Duress. Heck I can play 4 of them if I wanted to. 2nd, I can kill with the IGG loop, more easily done against decks without FoW, and I can easily squeeze 1 Chant/Duress in, it even builds my storm count nicely. Lastly, while not common, there are some Doomsday pile that allows for 1 disruption.
I fear Teeg way more than this card. Teeg at least shuts down AdN, IGG and Tendrils while being immune to Chant/Duress/Pyroblast/etc.
This is a stupid argument. Yes, ONE CARD by itself doesn't guarantee victory. So what?
You say blue has 8 counters and 8 manipulation spells to find them. Fine, we'll call that 16 counters. And we'll pretend like all your arguments about how Chant/Xantid Swarm/Duress stop this but not any of those counters is correct.
A storm deck can fight through a counter or two, just like it can get through a Thoughtseize or two. Or a Chant or two.
"It's a Trap!" just gave every non-blue deck another four cards to choose from that stop storm combo dead and don't cost mana. And can be played on the other players' turn. That's a) new, and b) awesome.
It's like you're arguing that Ichorid never loses to Leyline because Leyline isn't always in the opening hand and Ichorid runs Chain of Vapor. Ichorid loses to Leyline and Crypt and all sorts of other graveyard hate all the time. Sometimes it fights through it and wins. But pretending like it doesn't ever lose because it has "answers" is just dumb and completely ignores reality. Same here.
EDIT@Apex. That's particularly funny about you mentioning Teeg as something more fearsome because when Teeg (and Canonist) got printed there was all sorts of "It doesn't matter, combo will just tutor and bounce it EOT, then go off. Pointless. NOOBS." talk. Now you're citing Teeg as an piece of hate that's actually effective.
(For clarity, I do not recall Apex being a person who trashed Teeg when it was first spoiled.)
But nobody ever puts in 4x Leylines against Ichorid in any deck and just call it a day. Same way nobody is going to put 4 of this in any random deck to combat storm. You need way more than just 4 of this to combat storm, and most other sideboard solutions for nonblue decks suck, hard. What else are you going to side in your gobbos deck? 4x Pyrostatic Pillar + 3 Earwig Squad and 2 more Crypt against IGG? If so, then how are you going to get the fast beats on the combo deck and how are you going to board against other decks?
Sure blue decks have access to this card on top of their already massive amount of hate against storm decks, but do they really need it? It's already a good matchup for them. FoW + Daze + Spell Snare + Stifle + Counter-motherfucking-balance is almost overkill anyway.
New card that's somewhat exciting:
Goblin Ruinblaster - 2R
Goblin Shaman
Haste
Kicker - R
If it was kicked destroy target nonbasic land.
2/1
It's Avalanche Riders that kills nonbasics. Also a goblin. Too bad you can't kick a goblin dropped from lackey or instigator.
Rose-colored glasses versus dark shades battle, GO!Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
Storm loses to counters even with protection because the blue decks run lots of counters and can play them IN RESPONSE TO THE PROTECTION SPELL. You can't do that with this. Sure, I'll concede that a storm deck without protection will lose to this if you play it (and he can't Burning Wish afterwards). However, the important difference here is that blue decks can answer the protection spell and can often follow it up with answers to the main attraction. Sure, if all you've got is a Force and no Counterbalance, you're probably toast. But with a minimum of 4 Force, 4 Spell Snare, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, how often are you not going to be able to fire off at least one dig spell to pick up a second counter before the storm hits?
The situation versus blue decks is complicated because there are a lot more moving parts involved and play skill on the part of both players, but especially the combo player, is a significant factor. When your deck runs exactly four answers to an initiated storm chain, there's very few branching decision chains to analyze. If you don't have it, you lose. If they protect themselves before going off, you lose (since you can't answer their protection with this). If they go off, you play this, and they can Burning Wish for Tendrils, you lose. If they dick around for too long, kill themselves with AN, or don't have Wish, you win. Good luck doing that again in game three.
EDIT: @Apex: sure you can, just punt it onto the table.
EDIT 2: I should add that, on the "Non-Blue Storm Hate" continuum, this is closer to Teeg than Canonist. Like Teeg, it interacts with a very small portion of a storm player's deck, which coincidentally isn't the part that has the answers to this card. Teeg can't protect himself from a bunch of spells into a bounce spell into Tendrils; this won't stop a protection spell into a bunch of spells into Tendrils. At least Canonist forces them to find a removal spell before going off, because it's almost impossible to chain a bunch of artifacts into one lethal Tendrils, but the important difference is that Canonist slows them down, prevents them from going off until the answer it, and helps your clock.
terrible, just terrible, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
Btw, the card is suppose to be an uncommon. At least with that and Anaethemancer, you now have some decent nonbasic hate in standard. Though those 2 don't play well together.
Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Land
Emeria, the Sky Ruin enters the battlefield tapped.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control seven or more plains, return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
{T}: Add {W} to you mana pool.
This cycle is pretty much custom made for mono color control decks. Needless to say I'm creaming my pants. This bit seems awesome with Eternal Dragon and... what other creatures would you run in this? Solemn Simulacrum seems powerful in Extended at least.
There are a few spoiled cards here.http://www.gatheringmagic.com/?page_id=1523
some of them do not have art yet.
and i am not sure if the spoiled cards are real. hope this helps!
Wow, Mindbreak Trap completely destroys storm combo as an archetype. Also super expensive mythic rare.
So, neutering storm combo plus a bunch of cards that encourage monocolor and/or control decks. It's like I infiltrated Wizards without even knowing it.
And Mindbreak has (0) trap cost. Its a good card to splash on any deck on the sideboard. :wink:
Only if you have a combo infested meta.
Yes, as a combo player this is indeed "a trap", and the only way I see this thing working.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheezyhead
I'm playing with a 6 chants version and against non-blue decks I'm usually siding -6 chants +4 bounce/removal +2 lands, unless I'm expecting chants at the other side of the table. So, this could be a nice trick in this case.
I can't believe there isn't more hype about Instigator. Granted it lacks Lackey's ability to get in before the answers, but it plays ball with the new Warchief and with Double Strike it will put two Goblins into play per swing (with priority in-between - gogo Matron/Ringleader into SCG). Being pretty good in the mirror isn't shizzle either.
Also did Countertop Thresh just get free counter #9-12 for SB utility?
The landfall creature for 1R has no first strike finally ??? Too bad...
That counter is going to get played only agaist storm combo. CB and Tempo Thresh probably have already a good matchup, so it's likely they're going to side cards that are useful in other matchups too, like disrupt, Meddling Mage or red blasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinitium
The new lackey is indeed a card that might do wonders against the format. A resolved lackey, instigator, or vial (with the threat of putting lackey or infiltrator suddenly into the battlefield) means that the opponent will stay on the defense with his goyf, bringing the game into the middle/late game where goblin shines.
My money is on a vinelasher kudzu reprint :D!
Also, I like the new 'double lackey' and I'm gonna redesign my goblins now.
He's @ 2 mana, a turn too slow imho, Won't do much to the deck in legacy I reckon, Extended on the other hand will benefit greatly