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Would you prefer Banefire over Tendrils? I can see the argument that banefire works when you are not comboing, but I find Tendrils the best mid-combo wincon hands down. Am I right that the only thing that stops it is stifle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspid
Mindbreak Trap is Stifle's snaggle-toothed combo-hatin' cousin.
True, but it is far less commonQuote:
Originally Posted by danyul
I went 4-0 with the following list:
7 Forest
3 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Anger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Elvish Champion
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Eternal Witness
3 Heritage Druid
1 Joraga Warcaller
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Masked Admirers
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Viridian Zealot
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Summoner's Pact
3 Survival of the Fittest
Sideboard
1 Joraga Warcaller
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Viridian Shaman
Notes:
Played against
ANT (2-1)
Death n Taxes (2-0)
Merfolk (2-0)
Death n taxes (2-1)
Regal Force is by far the weakest card in the deck. Due to the double engine (Survival/Glimpse) I am almost never at a need for extra cards. I can see him being useful in corner cases, but those situations you're almost better off simply attacking.
The most typical way I won was with Emrakul. I also was able to cast a medium sized Joruga War Caller and attack with large elves. I also was able to just power out a bunch of 2/2s against Merfolk and put pressure on him before he could get his lords out.
I will likely be adding Natural Order x3 and 1 Progenitus in the SB to test out instead of Leyline. I don't like the CB-Top/Thopters matchup and threw in the Leyline for that reason.
Good job!Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
I have some questions about the list: Do you think its really neccesary to splash red just for anger? I mean, couldnt you just play concordant crossroads and stick to basics then?
I would cut regal force for the fourth heritage druid.
Also, I dont think survival and NO+prog is a good idea in this deck, since then you might have too much non-elves in the deck, which spoils the combo, what are your thoughts on that?
~maarten
I am guessing anger has better synergy with Survival of the fittestQuote:
Originally Posted by 1maarten1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
In cases where your combo fizzles out, what are the most common reasons? Usually pacts keep mine going and it works great but I play 4 and I am not sure why you would only play 2, they are so good!
I play the deck rather conservatively - hence the reason for cutting the 4th Heritage Druid and running zero Birchlore Rangers. I examine my opening hand to see which style I will push for each game:
Example hands:
1 Forest, 1 Wooded Foothills, 2 Nettle Sentinel, 1 Elvish Champion, 1 Elvish Archdruid, 1 Regal Force
This hand I would go for aggro then ramp to try to take advantage of a medium (4-6) Regal Force. It has enough lands to operate and 1 drops, therefore I would keep it as well.
1 Tiaga, 2 Wirewood Symbiote, 1 Quirion Ranger, 1 Viridian Shaman, 1 Survival of the Fittest, 1 Glimpse of Nature
This hand has enough operating parts to run the Glimpse combo. However with Tiaga being the only land I would need to slowroll. I would start with Ranger, then play out Survival next turn to grab Nettle Sentinels and Heritage Druids. Likely a turn 3-4 kill if I don't face disruption.
1 Forest, 1 Llanowar Elves, 1 Elvish Spirit Guide, 1 Priest of Titania, 1 Nettle Sentinel, 1 Wirewood Symbiote, 1 Elvish Visionary
This hand is very strong. I would run out Priest of Titania turn 1 with ESG, and go nuts with mana production next turn. Recycling Visionary with Symbiote will eventually draw me into some gas.
I will post more hands (via MTGO shuffler - not the greatest, but is much better than hand shuffling a proxy deck) if you guys want.
RE: Summoner's Pact
I've noticed how weak this strong is against decks that play countermagic. Since there is a strong possibility that I may not be able to pay it's upkeep cost due to removal or countermagic, I board them out for more aggro features (2nd War Caller and Magus of the Moon). Summoner's Pact is a very strong card in this deck, but I do not feel as though playing 3-4 will improve the weaknesses this deck has right now.
I very rarely fizzle - at worst, I just have a big turn where I cast elves and pass the turn. Sometimes, I am behind on mana production from being stuck on 1 land while my elves are killed (vs Zoo or Burn for instance) and I am unable to muster a defense or a kill before they kill me. I have considered the option of splashing Savannah for Absolute Law for this reason against red sweepers (Pyroclasm, Firespout, Volcanic Fallout, etc) but it seems that against these decks I'm better off playing the green Soul Warden or Kitchen Finks instead.
The addition of Survival allows the SB strategy to go in many directions, and I prefer to play Aggro/Midrange against control decks for that reason. I did not need to use the Leyline in that Daily Event for obvious reasons, but I am not thrilled about the CB-thopters matchup at all. It is rather futile unless I manage a preemptive Viridian Zealot.
Played another MTGO Daily Event - Went 3-1 this time.
Same list as above with the following changes:
Maindeck:
-1 Regal Force
+1 Heritage Druid
Sideboard:
-4 Leyline of Lifeforce
-1 Relic of Progenitus
-1 Joruga War Caller
-1 Viridian Shaman
+3 Natural Order
+1 Progenitus
+3 Krosan Grip
Round 1: Dark Zoo (2-1)
largely determined by bad mulligans.
Round 2: Aluren w/ Imperial Recruiters (2-0)
G1 I mull to 4 to find a land, but had Nettle Sentinel applying beats for a few turns. Eventually got enough mana to cast an uncontested Glimpse of Nature and started going through the motions. He concedes once I get the 2nd Nettle Sentinel.
G2 he wastes his Therapy's on my Glimpses and K.Grips, and I topdeck Survival and combo off.
Round 3: Rgb Goblins (0-2)
G1, I'm stuck on 1 Forest and he gets double Vial action going fast.
G2, he plays 2 Perish with an active Sparksmith all game, and I never managed to get enough elves out at once. No Survival in the first 30 cards.
Round 4: Team America (2-0)
G1, I bait with Elvish Champion and he bites. Follow up with double Glimpse and Heritage mana engine into my drawn Emrakul. Scoop-city. (turn 4)
G2, stuck on 1 land with Natural Order in hand, but I manage to get a few lords out to prevent a blowout from Engineered Plague. I stick an Elvish Champion when he's at 11 to put him into critical life while he fails to draw an answer.
The games are available for viewing right now (not sure for how long they will remain up) on Magic Online in the Daily Events room. Legacy 4-Round Event# 1484161.
Hey Guys,
I have been testing ruckus' build on MWS and I am impressed with it.
With my few playtesting, my record has been 12-2 (losing to this U/G deck that runs Grim Lavamancer)
As much as I would love to build this deck in real life, I don't think I will be able to get a hold of Taigas (well, not in a while)Quote:
7 Forest
3 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Anger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Elvish Archdruid
1 Elvish Champion
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Eternal Witness
3 Heritage Druid
1 Joraga Warcaller
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Masked Admirers
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Viridian Zealot
3 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
2 Summoner's Pact
3 Survival of the Fittest
I have actually been testing Stomping Grounds in place of that on MWS. However, I never really needed that red mana source. Yes, post sideboard I would imagine its useful but on most of the games that I've played.
I've only played the deck for a few games. Can anyone enlighten me with that. It was mentioned above that it has great synergy with Survival (and giving your guys hates via Anger) but is that it?
Speaking of Survival, I am actually thinking of replacing Survival with Fauna Shaman. Its not just for budget reasons (I have been saving up so I can get a playset of Survivals) but there are other pros and cons. Fauna Shaman adds to the elf count: Another mana for Priest, draw with an active Glimpse when casted, beater when you need one (not like its an issue) and can be fetchable with Summoner's Pact late game (when comboing out is out of the picture and aggro is the only way).
Fauna Shaman does suffer from being slow, being having a summoning sickness and can only be used once when you dont have any untappers.
Has anyone tested her over Survival and see which one is more effective (I dont want to spend time if theres already an answer for it)
Any opinion ruckus?
It's basically only for Anger, and yes, Haste is that big.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Not for this deck. Anger-chain is impossible to generate with Fauna, you want repeated Survival-activations to ensure no fizzling while going off, Survival can combo on its own but again with only repeated activations, etc. Basically, Fauna Shaman just doesn't do what you want done. It's slow as heck and you need to untap with it. I'd rather just untap with a Priest. One Fauna for Pact-purposes may be worth considering but then again, it's still slow and vulnerable as ever and when you need to build up, you will have trouble building up to 4 mana for Pact, let alone more for Pact + Shaman.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Can anyone speak to the average goldfish of Ruckus's build?
Your list looks pretty standard for a Survival List, but why did you choose to play just 3 Heritage and Symbiotes? The latter is by far the best card in the deck, atleast for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Is Shaman+ Zealot really needed?
As Eldariel said, HASTE really is that big of a deal. You can also play 1 Masked Admirers far easier, which would allows you to combo out as if you cast glimpse (but it is easier to fizzle).Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
If your looking for a budget replacement to the Taigas, just try Farhaven Elf or Sylvan Ranger and a basic mountain.
http://magiccards.info/query?q=o%3As...2&v=card&s=cmc
Cool, a 2 card combo now becomes a 3 card combo.....Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
On Masked Admirers I've often found that it's often enough to tutor for a Sylvan Messenger and chain Symbiotes from there on. It's only an additional initial mana compared to the Masked engine, and the fact that you (will probably) draw multiple cards at once means that subsequent iterations will be less expensive compared to paying an extra GGG for each creature to keep the loop going (which can sometimes be a tall order if starting with 2-3 elves on the board). Sylvan Messenger is also generally a better topdeck.
Is Emrakul really maindeck material? It's great for the sideboard for dealing with damage prevention, milling decks and graveyard hate aimed at Anger but neither of those perks are instrumental in making the deck work in game 1, especially since it can typically race Lands and Enchantress before they can get a lock going.
Sylvan Ranger intrigues me by the way. It looks as if it could be perfectly playable in mono-green builds trying to fill out their 2cc slot at the very least, especially since basic forests is essentially how you fight through all sorts of hate game 2 & 3. Another card advantage Elf with Symbiote as well. Nice find.
Please read the post... and cut the attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBarber
It was merely a suggestion for a guy who doesn't have the $$$
I note that it isn't optimal,or at least, the word budget, strongly implies it.
@ Taiga, Stomping Ground, Wooded Foothills, Sylvan Ranger
All these cards do one thing: find a Mountain to enable Anger. Taiga is the best since it has no life loss and taps for G. Stomping Ground is a perfect substitute, as well as basic Mountain if you already have fetchlands. Sylvan Ranger is an interesting approach, as it's both Elf and finds the land you need. Land Grant might be better however.
@ 3 Heritage Druid
I've since cut Regal Force for the 4th Heritage Druid. I haven't looked back since.
@ Goldfishing
I've managed to go off as early as turn 2 before, but I usually only push the deck if I'm under pressure from on-board lethal or a known combo deck. Against aggro, you can generally use your elves to chump to buy a few turns. This is useful if you have Survival and know you can essentially play everything in one turn to win.
I've gotten Emrakul attacking as early as turn 3 and very often at that. It takes a while to get used to the Masked Admirers engine, but it's almost always fool proof.
@ Emrakul
Not necessarily required in this deck, but I find it much easier to use as the kill method than Grapeshot (un-tutorable) or Banefire (same, and costs 21 mana). Both are legitimate kill-cons, but I prefer Emrakul as it also answers the rare Solitary Confinement, Moat, and the like. It's also the most common way to get a concession out of an opponent. With Anger, it makes it very powerful, as there it a 95% chance that they will be dead by the time you finish your extra turn. (vs Life, or Karakas, or Stifle are the only occasions I can think that it may not be)
@ Wirewood Symbiote
Since this deck wants to abuse Survival of the Fittest along with Priest of Titania, you want to maintain your Elf count as high as possible for the untaps. Here's how I start off my chain:
Pre-req: 4 elves in play, 1 of which is Priest of Titania, 1 Forest, 1 Taiga, Survival of the Fittest; Anger in graveyard, Masked Admirer in hand
2. Tap Priest for GGGG.
3. Survival Masked Admirers (M.A) for Quirion Ranger (GGG)
4. Cast Quirion Ranger, and return MA to hand (0)
5. Untap Priest of Titania and add mana (GGGGG)
6. Repeat step 3 and get Priest of Titania (GGGG)
7. Cast Priest of Titania and return MA to hand, tap for mana (GGGGGG)
8. Repeat 6. (GGGGG)
9. Repeat step 7. (GG)
etc
Once you have all your Priests and Archdruids out, you get Wirewood Symbiote, untapping a Priest of Titania by bouncing a Priest of Titania. At this point you should have at least 15 mana in your mana pool, and easily be able to cast Emrakul.
Wirewood Symbiote is useful especially with Glimpe combo - however it is not an Elf, and can effect all portions that are Elf-related. I split the "untappers" betwen Ranger and Symbiote because I don't want to have 4 of either. Ranger is useful early game. Symbiote is useful when you're facing removal or fatties (like vs Dredge, Reanimator, Zoo, Merfolk, Goblins etc). Symbiote also typically doesn't live long enough to allow you to infy-chump, but it gets the job done.
@ Artifact/Enchantment removal
I would say Zealot is absolutely necessary maindeck. Viridian Shaman, not so much, but I prefer Shaman in most cases as I can always reuse him with Symbiote against Vial decks. He is also much better at removing Trinispheres and Chalice of the Void when you're really tight on mana (3 is easier than 2+2 in often cases). I like playing 1 of each, and boarding into another Viridian Shaman after SB.
@ Sideboarding
I've recently updated my sideboard to reflect my metagame. Here's my choices:
3 Krosan Grip
Still needed to deal with Counterbalance now that I took out the Leyline of Lifeforce. It also deals with Engineered Plague.
4 Relic of Progenitus
Needed against Dredge decks (all variants including Loam). This gets the nod over Tormod's Crypt because it cycles and to Exile the entire graveyard you aren't required to target (Leyline of Sanctity has been showing up).
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Elf-lord
Brought in against decks that you will be switching towards Mid-range Elf deck.
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
I bring these in against Tribal and Landstill. Tribal doesn't have many outs to a 2 turn clock, while I have an army of chump blockers.
Possible considerations:
Leyline of Lifeforce (CB infested metas)
Elf-lords (Champion, Archdruid, Imperious Perfect, Joruga Warcaller)
Thorn of Amethyst (combo and Landstill metas)
Caller of the Claw (black decks with Perish and/or Engineered Plague.
Sorry about the off topic post, but I think this deserves being in the opening post (or not).
This guy seems serious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x70pW...yer_embedded#!
Alright dudes, playing in a tournament on Sunday. I KNOW this has been debated over and over again, but can someone tell me what (if any) the advantages are of playing Emrakul over Tendrils aside from solitary confinement, leyline of sanctity, etc. I'm deciding between the kill card, and I run the following list because I have tested every imaginable build of elves combo and this one is by far the most effective:
Main:
4 Birchlore Rangers
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Emrakul/Tendrils
6 Forest
4 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Heritage Druid
1 Joraga Warcaller
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
4 Summoner's Pact
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wirewood Symbiote
SB:
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Elvish Champion
2 Fecundity
3 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of Lifeforce
4 Tormod's Crypt