Printable View
I am in a really interesting position... I haven't really had real legacy experience yet I am investing in this deck. I feel like a lot of the discussion comes from actually playing in tournaments and having experience in the scene.
Hopefully I'll get to a legacy tournament this summer.
All of that is true. However, there are three things that make Moltensteel at least considerable for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by evanmartyr
1. It doesn't require Hellbent.
I can't count the number of times I've sat with 2-3 cards in hand, desperate to dump them before my RPD loses its summoning sickness. Very often, I've let Chrome Mox hit the table without anything imprinted on it, just to empty that damn hand. Even worse things happen when I draw, say, Arc-Slogger or another expensive spell, essentially making my RPD much less powerful for a signle turn. Moltensteel does not suffer this drawback. I can easily invest both mana and life into its ability in order to hit for an impressive amount of damage - not as much as RPD with Hellbent, I assume, but still admirable.
2. It always has evasion.
Even if I am tapped out, I will still be able to swing for 4 flying damage (And more if I want to invest life into it). The same does not hold true for RPD, which is sometimes just a 3/3 with no abilities for 4 because you're tapped out.
3. It's an artifact.
Now, while this one is a major drawback, there is also one card that really loves this. Namely Mox Opal. Sure, it's legendary. But with Revoker, Moltensteel, Chrome Mox, Chalice and Trini, as well as maybe some Jittes in the deck, this is starting to look more and more like a worthwhile consideration to me. And Mox Opal is actually a really good card if you can get Metalcraft.
I also believe that sword of war and peace could be very good in this deck. I'm going to test it in the Mental Misstep meta at a tourney soon. If you lock up their hand with Trinisphere/Chalice, you can turn even a revoker into almost a 2 turn clock. Anyone that fetches + forces, or thoughtseizes would be dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirath
The I feel the extra damage combos well with with our disruption package.
To be honest, I'm not too thrilled about the increase in merfolk since I seem to have issues against merfolk (hellbent with sloggers) even with pyrokinesis/boil/ratchet bombs. Is it really time to get Spinal Villains (if possible!)?
In all I have read about Dragon Stompy, it seems that some people do very well against merfolk. I'd like to hear their thoughts now since I expect to fight many soon.
At least Mental Misstep makes an additional 4 cards dead for them.
Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but I think sword of war and peace is great against control because no spout or swords on it, plus they usually have a gigantic fist full of cards. My only complaint is that Jace can still bounce a sword wielding creature.
So happy to see a healthy amount of activity in this thread. A metagame deck to be sure, but I feel that aside from Merfolk's basics, overall it is a good time for this deck despite others wondering if the deck is any good right now. It feel that although the deck's clock seems to be getting slower, perhaps sword of war and peace can help offset this.
It's funny what is cyclical, like Slogger's popularity. I'm hoping that the deck is someday able to not be optimal in a Hellbent version (which is both my opinion and personal preference) and Slogger will likely still be discussed then as well.
I'll be testing Priest of Urabrask soon. I expect good things from his manafixing into Slogger as well as getting a threat under a lockpiece as well as powering out a sword to demand an answer or win.
Of course there are nuances to every deck. This is a good one to start with. You'll win some and lose some. You'll learn how to board so that you can perform better against the decks that aren't hurt by Dragon Stompy's strategy so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by jancz
If Dragon Stompy hasn't been present in whatever tournament you end up finding, results could be favorable. :)
Accelerate into locks, drop your hand and huge beaters and knock the opponent out quickly by turning creatures sideways.
Sure, with all those Artifacts, u will get Metalcraft for Mox Opal. But not at Turn 1! And all this deck wants is making silly things at turn 1! Turn 1 Mox Opal does nothing! Mostly T2 its not possible to get Metalcraft, cause u have 2 Lands and a Mox producing 0 Mana. So what do you want to play?
My current List:
//CREATURES
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Arc Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
2 Moltensteel Dragon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
//STUFF
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Blood Moon
4 Seething Song
//LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain
Yes, with Seething Song AND Arc Slogger! Song helps playing Moltensteel Dragon, Arc-Slogger and RDK, you can pitch it into Mox, and it boosts RDK and Moltensteel Dragons Power up. In my games, SS has never been a dead card. Oh, did i say it helps going Hellbent? It does!
Slogger is a Meta Call(k, the hole deck is a Meta Call), cause there are so many Goblins and GW Lists around where he is simply great. Thats also the Point for playing Revoker. A Noble Hierarch under Bloodmoon is Devil himself. He fits in.
Im not playing Equipment, cause it makes me slow. Fore sure a Sword makes Magus or Ape beating the Opponent, but the Dragons and Sloggers also hurts.
I'm playing this Deck now for years and test a lot of variants(without Hellbent, without Seething Song...) and i came to the conclusion that I'll never Miss SS. We are all in, playing Lockpiece + Thread is all we need to do. If we come to the Mid/Lategame, we loose. Lists without Seething Song don't change this Problem.
My Oppinion.
I like that list. Pretty solid.
FWIW, I've bailed back out on Dragon Stompy in favor of both a new weird Affinity build and a white Chalice Aggro with the new 3-drop Golem-Making Guy. Sexy as hell. Red still needs something to make me come back to this.
Again, this is correct. But when my Hellbent creatures lose summoning sickness, I'd much rather have a 0 CMC card in hand than something I can't cast, thus delaying the attack. In that sense, Opal would be the superior choice. It is definitely not a 4-of in the deck, but as a 1- or 2-of, I don't see it being all that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ner
Also, Koth has been pretty strong in my testing (As in, he wins pretty much every game where he gets to use his first two abilities a couple of times), but others don't seem to like him. I mean, he's no Elspeth and he can't protect himself, but at worst he's a big fat target for your opponent's removal that will save something else, at best he wins games out of nowhere. So why don't people like him?
Because he's the type of card that can greatly improve a slightly superior board position on our part but can pretty much never recover us from a poor board position. A topdeck Koth can be a game ender if we're staring down numerous creatures which we can't deal with. People like to assume that just because you drop a Planeswalker that they become an auto-target by opponents. Particularly in the case of Koth if I were the one who was playing against Dragon Stompy and I had the opportunity to push through an extra 5-7 damage I would much rather direct it at the dome rather than a Planeswalker whos first two abilities ultimately can't affect my already superior board position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon_Whelp
The only Planeswalker whom I've ever really targeted automatically is Jace 2.0. (-.-')
Forlorn Egoist
I have seen this argument several times before. And while there is truth in it, the fact is that Koth's first ability is 4 damage a turn unless they leave a blocker behind - not something that helps us regain our footing in a bad board position, but it does set up the recovery by weakening the opponent. The second one, however, does sometimes help. Well, helps me at least. You get enough mana to drop that big guy sitting in your hand - just two Mountains in play means that you have four mana, which is enough for everything but Arc-Slogger. Again, I'll agree that he's no Jace TMS or Elspeth 1.0 (The best of the Walkers, in my opinion), but I do think that he has his place in the deck as a 1- or 2-of.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist
Did anyone see my current list? I did take down a couple decks in current meta, getting 5 wins against Goblin, Bant, MonoBlack, SpiralTide and Merfolk. I just lost facing another goblin instead in round 4 (believe me! My opp topdeck a badlands playing Warren Weirding (when I was hurting him with a Slogger+Jitte :D).
My tips:
1) Play with DS with no great number of screw stuffs isn't a nice way when you thinking about win most decks in the format. I like to play with it to SCREW COMBO AND CONTROL DECKS. Aways. Case closed.
2) Lord of Shatterskull Pass and Ratched isn't too slow like most people is guessing at moment. I did in the last tournament crush Merfolks with two conters in the Bomb and roll up Gobbos with LoSP Turn 1 with Sething Song. Game 2 against Merfolks I did easy with just 8~12 hates (Kinesis, Bombs and Slooger, LoSP, Jitte). I mean that all of those aggro decks suffer enough when I play my first turn Bomb, or holding Kinesis, or even Turn 2 LoSP making Level 6 faster...whearever.
3) Yes, No-Hellbent DS.dec must to be tested. But please, I would like to see everybody still playing with all motherfucker cards (Moons, Trinis, Chalices).
4) My current list can disrupt controls with full sets of Moons. And slow down most combo decks like ANT decks with Chalices and Trinis. All of then is just a good matchup that reveal to me by statistics (great favorable using these full sets) that I would keep playing aways with my combo and control hates (well...chosen because I see the meta...).
5) Finally My SB is replete of cards that makes aggro decks cry (or not if I'm doing something wrong yet lol)
Train with this deck and you'll see how this can be a perfect weapon nowadays (my only mightmare was that masterpiece named VengevineSuvival, banned and resting in peace hehe). :laugh:
So Masamune, when you say NO-Hellbent DS must be tested, I am willing to do the tests with you / for you =P.
we take :
18 Lands [standard]
16 mofu-Cards [yep, all as a four off]
4 Revoker [because he is good in a Chalice-Aggro Deck]
3 Jitte [because Hellbent is no longer an Issue]
8 Mox & SSG [is just needed]
That leaves us with 11 Slots which should be filled with the best creatures available.
Also I think that Priest of Urabrask is a fine addition in this deck, so maybe only 7 Slots for the big beats. Are you agreeing so far?
Oh, and May I ask how your Sideboard looks like?
Here's the list I've been thinking about and want to put to testing:
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Blood Moon
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
10 Mountain
Pretty standard list but I think Metamorph has a lot of potential. Obviously it can work without the Hellbent component since that seems to be possible at the moment. I also think Priest can be extremely effective. I could easily send out Dragon and Raiders in place of Priest and Revoker.
56 card decklist =P
I think Revoker is missing??? :laugh:
You're right. Revoker seems like the best choice here as it is completely ridiculous.
Post the goods with regards to the white Stompy deck. It sounds brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I'm guessing Ethersworn Canonist + Lodestone Golem + Golem guys?
Just went 0-3 in a tournament without any revokers in the 75. All three matches they would have been relevent. Make it a point to play them somewhere in your 75, or you will be very, very sad that you didn't.
That being said, slogger and pit dragon were both still beast. I just needed the help with controlling vial when I had chalice at 1 and 2 in more than one match...
I also mulled to 5 twice, 4 once, 3 once and 6 twice. List is not worth looking at until I actually win IMO
I would disagree. I would like to see the list to try to understand why it did so poorly. Obviously missing the revoker was a big point but I would like to understand what else happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivon
Can u report what decks do you face to lose so easily? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tivon
By the way I'm training Dragom Stompy vs Dredge/ Ichorid decks and I'm losing...even if I play Trinis or Chalice. Ichorid itself screw me up aways. I don't take any SB slot for any grave-hate only to beat grave decks. I realize that Kazuul isn't that best option only facing Old Meta Suvival decks. This can be helpful with Bombs togheter.
Does anyone run grave-hates?
So, 19 artifacts, make it 21 with 2 Molten, you can now run Covetous even without the artifact lands. Say you run 2 or 3 of them (you can run 4, w/e) and there you have consistant kill cons.Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroYawgmoth
I like this line of thought. Now Covetous doesn't cost 4, so I'd say 3 Covetous, and now you got 2 slots remaining. I'd run either RPD, coz he's good even w/o hellbent, with the plus of being nutz good with hellbent, OR 2 Shatterskull Pass, which is 4cc 6/6 (since noone likes Shivan Wumpus somehow)
6 Mountain
4 Mountain Artifact
4 C-Mox
4 SSG
8 :2: lands
4 priest ofgixurabrask
4 trinis
4 chalice
4 moon
4 moon w/ legs
4 needle w/ legs
3 Covetous
2 Moltenstell
2 Lords, because not only merfolks are allowed to run them.
3 Jitte
Just my $0.02 w/ a list
Mmm, as a Dredge player, Ichorid (the card) is brutal against decks that rely on prison effects. You will need to get flying with a Pit Dragon and smash them in the air as quickly as you can. You might have to trade a bunch of your guys to stay ahead though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Masamune
Kazuul is definitely tech.