[Deck] Jund

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Originally Posted by Shawon

I can understand why you and others would think Dark Ritual + Hypnotic Specter are counterintuitive to the deck's principles, but I don't buy the 'too slow' argument when the very reason I'm running the two cards is to make discard faster against combo. The only argument that I am willing to buy is that Dark Ritual and/or Hypnotic Specter aren't worth the slots dedicated to improving combo in exchange for weakening tribal/graveyard/etc.

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Spectre is slow on it's own, though. Why can't you see that? Yes, Dark Rit ramps you into it on turn one, but without rit it's dead weight. Even with rits, you run the risk of stalling out, as aluisiocsantos said above.


again, I ask that you supply data that reinforces your design choices. Tournament results, top 8's, data from testing; otherwise your argument is essentially all opinion. Saying that you're running dark rit to accelerate into discard vs. combo isn't sufficient proof.

And if you aren't willing to listen to criticism or counterarguments then go over to the Salvation with your posts. I'm sure they'd all love it.

@Confusion in the Ranks: I like the card for the hilarity of stealing an Emrakul or Omniscience. The issue is Grizzlebees. Even in Gobs, where you have instant-speed dudes, they can still respond with the draw effect. It needs some testing, but it could be good, maybe even useful in other matchups than S&T?

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Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos

Mana, dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Hymn to Tourach, Hymn to Tourach. Oh no, I ran out of stuff do for the rest of the game : /

Also in another direction, did you see this list:

GPT Strasbourg - Raffa di puegnago (BS) Olympus#2
Number of Players : 43
Date: 17/03/2013
Deck Name: Jund Position: 1
Jund Matteo Brusaferri

Creatures [16]
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf

Instants [10]
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Punishing Fire

Sorceries [7]
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize

Planeswalkers [3]
3 Liliana of the Veil


Artifacts [2]
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Lands [22]
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Slaughter Games
2 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Pernicious Deed

I've seen Confusion in the Ranks work very well in a Goblins deck here in Brazil during last year's Nationals, specially well vs Sneak Show. Maybe an alternative?

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Wow, that's me! :laugh:
I tried Confusion in the Rank but I didn't like it so much... This is not a Goblin deck ans some time you are creatureless. In this case, Confusion sucks...
I prefere Angel of Despair.
Anyways I'm not running Angel or Confusion anymore. S&T is a bad MU also with Angel so I prefere not to waste SB slot for it...

The snt player could choose: snt lotus petal sol land as his three. I think that would give you good testing results and may expose the weakness in the hippi strategy:) taking the piss, but half heartedlg, just jam as many games as you can write down elements central to winning/losing then you can kind of see trends for what works/doesnt. Good lyck.

Hi guys, any idea how to sideboard for the mirror? I'm playing punishing jund and it seems that punishing fire is the key to beat mirror (and other midranges).

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Originally Posted by spellpierce

Hi guys, any idea how to sideboard for the mirror? I'm playing punishing jund and it seems that punishing fire is the key to beat mirror (and other midranges).

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I try to maximise on threats and answers vs the mirror but essentially the Jund mirror comes down to who makes the better plays - like saving Bloodbraid Elf for maximum effect, etc. (i.e. when opponent has both cards in hand and a creature in play so whatever BBE Cascades into provides value) Personally, I like to bring in Umezawa's Jitte, Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse in order to have as many answers to my opponent's threats as possible. I'll generally take out Thoughtseize and/or Hymn to Tourach depending on who I'm playing (as different people play Jund differently or have more sideboard options for the mirror). If you're playing against a Punishing Fire version then some number of Surgical Extraction should be brought in as an answer to it - as it's brutal in the mirror due to taking out every creature in the deck except Tarmogoyf - it also wins Goyf wars.

I wouldn't take out Hymn, although if you have a lot to bring in, maybe. I also wouldn't bother bringing in that much.

Even the single card discard, which normally gets taken out, isn't the worst thing in the world. Being able to snag a Dark Confidant or a BBE is pretty good.

Cards like Sylvan Library if unanswered will win by themselves. If any player gets to untap with Dark Confidant (another reason to keep Thoughtseize), they will very likely win.

I'd rather take out Thoughtseize than hymn to tourach going by that the biggest thing in Jund is using 2 for 1s. And losing that advantage vs a deck that relies o nit is already having less edge. Besides, that 2 damage points from the discard is gonna be one less Punishing Fire for the them to hit you with.

Some people literally empty their hand as soon as possible so Hymn can be a terrible top deck late in the game verses some players, against those players I'd rather have Thoughtseize so I would side out Hymn. Against the players that tend to ride out their threats Hymn is the better card because they tend to have more business in their hand, so I'd side out Thoughtseize. From my experience, discard tends to be the dead cards in the mirror and removal is key in the Jund mirror as it's always going to be relevant due to Jund being almost entirely dependent on creatures to win. That's my logic behind sideboarding.

How many people still play wasteland in PFires Jund?

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Originally Posted by LEH

I try to maximise on threats and answers vs the mirror but essentially the Jund mirror comes down to who makes the better plays - like saving Bloodbraid Elf for maximum effect, etc. (i.e. when opponent has both cards in hand and a creature in play so whatever BBE Cascades into provides value) Personally, I like to bring in Umezawa's Jitte, Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse in order to have as many answers to my opponent's threats as possible. I'll generally take out Thoughtseize and/or Hymn to Tourach depending on who I'm playing (as different people play Jund differently or have more sideboard options for the mirror). If you're playing against a Punishing Fire version then some number of Surgical Extraction should be brought in as an answer to it - as it's brutal in the mirror due to taking out every creature in the deck except Tarmogoyf - it also wins Goyf wars.

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I felt Jitte is poor waste of sideboard as it doesn't do that much (I felt) against others.

anw my current board:

4 REB
3 Duress
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain of Mephisto
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
2 Rakdos Charm

probably can take out 2 rakdos charm for 2 surgical.

Does batterskull works? That's what I used to board in for Modern Jund tho.

My meta is very open but the better players tend to play blue (miracles/esperblade). Until recently few decided to pick up jund and it hits me that I have no idea how to board.

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Originally Posted by spellpierce

I felt Jitte is poor waste of sideboard as it doesn't do that much (I felt) against others.

anw my current board:

4 REB
3 Duress
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Chain of Mephisto
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
2 Rakdos Charm

probably can take out 2 rakdos charm for 2 surgical.

Does batterskull works? That's what I used to board in for Modern Jund tho.

My meta is very open but the better players tend to play blue (miracles/esperblade). Until recently few decided to pick up jund and it hits me that I have no idea how to board.

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First off, put needles in there (2-3) if your meta is UW Control-heavy. Drop it on T1 on whatever is valuable (Top, Jace, SFM, etc) and proceed to crush. Even on a griselbrand against combo it's not terrible (though if a gb lands you should pray for a lilly asap).

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Originally Posted by zulander

How many people still play wasteland in PFires Jund?

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I'm currently playing it, couse you need Wasteland to win the mirror.
That's why I have a Life from the Loam in my sideboard.

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Originally Posted by Lord Gibbo

I'm currently playing it, couse you need Wasteland to win the mirror.
That's why I have a Life from the Loam in my sideboard.

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How are you managing the manabase with wastelands and groves?

Am I the only one who isn't playing PF Jund lol?

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Originally Posted by Raggedjoe

How are you managing the manabase with wastelands and groves?

Am I the only one who isn't playing PF Jund lol?

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I find that it's really not an issue as groves add two of our three colours so it really doesn't hinder the manabase all that much. Furthermore, Jund is a midrange deck so it's really not worried too much about giving our opponents a couple of points of life if required to in order to cast spells - It's not like we're splashing solely for the combo itself, over half of the deck is green or red. I run PF combo and 3 Wasteland and have only ever had an issue with my mana once.

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Originally Posted by Raggedjoe

How are you managing the manabase with wastelands and groves?

Am I the only one who isn't playing PF Jund lol?

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I have been playing PF Jund since the beginning and I'll never play without PF.
If I have to choose betwin PF and Wasteland, I'll absolutely choose PF, couse you don't realy want to Waste a land on turn 2 o 3! You want to cast BBE asap!!
I Played 5 tournaments with Wasteland and I get 1 Top8, 2 Top4 and 1 1st place. In the last one I made 4-2.

Now I'm running 3 Wasteland and this is my current manabase:

1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs

I didn't find so many problems with this configuration... Obviously, some times you open hands with 1Grove and 1Wasteland and you curse every Gods you know... But it's not so frequent...

Of course this is only my opinion, not a universal true!

SB against UW Miracles (with Misdirection and/or Divert)

How do you usually side?

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Originally Posted by Stavanger

SB against UW Miracles (with Misdirection and/or Divert)

How do you usually side?

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This seems like a matchup where Hymn would be an amazing choice. Miracles can't exactly empty their hands.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

This seems like a matchup where Hymn would be an amazing choice. Miracles can't exactly empty their hands.

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Hmm, felt Hymn was the obvious out because of Divert 3 for 1 or Misdirection 3 for 2 (all in favour Miracle)

Out 3 Hymn, 1 Loam if you play it and 3 Bolts for 3 Pyro, 2 Needle and 1 Pulse/ 1 Grip

You can exchange Seizes with Duress as they can't be Diverted/Misdirected, if it's RIP Miracles, i like to board out 1-2 Goyfs as well.

+1 on the Duress idea, though I dislike Discard against UW Control.

I play punishing Jund, so my strategy is:

-4 Thoughtseize, -3 Hymn

+3 REB, +2 Needle, +1 BBE, +1 Sylvan Library

Maybe against Miracles I'll favor Hymn for Pfire, but I never take out Bolt; you need all the reach you can get.