[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

Here is what my s/b looks like at the moment.

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Tropical Island
SB: 2 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Grim Tutor

There is not always readily available s/b advice or reasoning here, so I had to come up with ideas myself over time. I will give my reasoning for each slot, and any feedback is welcome. I am also going to criticize a few options from other lists although they have proven successful in the past.

Two chain of vapors come in from the s/b in every game two and three match I play in the place of two gitaxian probes. The reason being any deck can bring in artifact hate like gafdigger's cage.

Against Death and Taxes I bring in two chain of vapors, one dread of night, one massacre, one thoughtseize, and one Karakas; I bring out four gitaxian probes and one duress. The reason I do not run so many dread of nights is that one will not stop an ethersworn canonist, and it does not address phyrexian revoker. I can also search up the proper removal and stack my deck with Lim-Dul's Vault.

When I play against U/W/R delver I bring out four gitaxian probes, one island, and one preordain; I bring in massacre, two chain of vapor, two xantid swarm, and a tropical island. The reasoning behind only two xantid swarms is that I want to combo off with Ad Nauseum quickly if possible because they will only draw more counters, so if I have too many green spells in my hand that I cannot cast, I am potentially stopping myself from using a tutor. The discard works well, so three green spells can cause trouble sometimes.

Against Rug Delver I will have the same plan as above except I will substitute the thoughtseize for massacre. Carpet of Flowers can be good in this match, but not as good in others. Xantid swarm works well because they either counter it, or possibly tap an island for a lightning bolt. That is a win/win situation. The Lim-Dul's Vault in the main deck serves a similar purpose. It can act as a discard spell because it is likely to be countered if the opponent is holding one while at the same time acting as a more powerful preordain.

I have moved grim tutor to the s/b because it has been increasingly difficult to remain consistent with it in the main. It is good against certain decks like reanimator and Deathblade, but it is not always good when players are using three spell pierces which has become common. Because Team America has become more prevalent as well as reanimator, I was forced to make a decision about the three dark confidants I was previously s/bing. I have opted to use one tormod's crypt, one surgical extraction, and the grim tutor in in their place because dark confidant was not exactly an adequate answer to a deck running so many spells that are good against storm. Reanimator seems like a more promising matchup.

Hey folks, I’m a long time lurker I figured I would contribute something. I’ve got two A.N.T. lists here and two reports to go with them. One for 5th place at a g.p.t., the other for 7th place at Flipside Gaming’s legacy 1k on 2-23. One is a little dated it’s from November 2013, sorry but I’ve been busy . here goes nothing.

November 2013 grand prix trial 5th place

Burning Ant
4 polluted delta
2 Bloodstained mire
2 Scalding tarn
2 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
2 island
1 swamp
3 burning wish
3 duress
4 cabal therapy
4 infernal tutor
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 gitaxian probe
4 lotus petal
4 lion’s eye diamond
1 tendrils
1 past in flames
1 adnauseaum

Sideboard

3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
1 tropical island
1 karakas
1 ill gotten gains
1 past in flames
1 tendrils of agony
1 empty the warrens
1 duress
1 infest
1 grim tutor

Rd 1 vs Affinity 2-0
Game one I win the die roll and lead with git probe and get to therapy away 2 x thought cast. Turn 2 I adnauseum from 17 life and that is good enough to get there.
Game two I lead with duress and take a flusterstorm, on my turn two I gitaxian probe and once again adnauseaum from 17. This one was also good enough.

Rd 2 versus Ancestral cascade BUG whatever. 2-1
Game one I gitaxian probe and see the coast is clear for a turn one IGG loop.
Game two, my opening hand is cantrips and lands, I hadn’t durdled yet so I decided to keep it, he leads with thoughtsieze and takes a brainstorm. I cantrip on my turn into an led. His turn two he plays a revoker!? Names lions eye diamond. I sigh because I didn’t board in decay’s. on my turn I cantrip into a burning wish. On his turn 3 he hymns away my last cantrip and the wish. I concede.
Game three he mulls to six I lead with duress and see brainstorm and force but no other blue card, I take the brainstorm and on my turn two I git probe to check what he drew, which wasn’t a blue card, I hammer him out with a past in flames loop.

Round 3 vs rug delver. 1-2
Game one, he says he knows hat im playing , it dosn’t matter I play a sea and go rit rit rit duress adnauseam.
Game 2 I open duress cabal therapy in the same hand all I need is mana so I keep.he leads with mongoose go. I lead with duress and see 2 brainstorms a force and goyf and a mongoose. I take the force. On his turn he taps out for goyf, I groan because I cannot kill him for it. I do however get to therapy away 2 brainstorms. But it dosnt matter he beats me to death as I brick drawstep after drawstep.
Game 3 I have to mull I keep duress sea ponder led led petal. I lead with duress I see brainstorm delver volc force stifle reb pierce. I say to myself if he taps out for that delver im going for it reguardless of what I draw. I go for it and brick hard. Oh well live fast die hard blah blah blah kill a Hilton. I know it wasn’t a good play bro. I felt lucky.

Rd 4 loaming pox 1-2 (yikes!)

My notes here a little sketchy, sorry. What it says exactly is Game one is a grind festival that ends with past in flames.
Game 2 he leads with white layline, I turn 2 wish for 14 goblins and then pass back and he eplauges for goblins.
Game 3 he leads with white leyline black leyline and thoughtsieze. I play out lands and get liliana ultimate’d now im irritated going into round 5.

Round 5 vs 3 color counterbalance (finally a bye) 2-1
Lose die roll
Game one My notes here once again are a little sketch. He leads basic island top, I lead gitaxian probe see zero force of will in his hand and play out land petal (drawn off probe !) led led tutor adnauseam kill you and your silly control deck.
Game two I feel pumped. For no good reason. He locks me out quick and fast and even has eot3 v clique to start the pressure, followed by meddling mage.
Game 3 I mull to a hand with decay swarm land land led and tutor. I lead with swarm. He leads with top. I play my second land and have to pass. He plays cb and passes back….. let the grind begin. Thankfully he has no pressure at all After several turns I finally start drawing action I endstep blow up the balance with my decay. I untap sting him with the bees and past inflames his face off for a real big storm count. Grapeshot would’ve gotten there.

Whooo hooo ! I made top 8 !

Semi finals. Vs ancestral bug the same pilot as before. 1-2
Game one is a grind with thoughtsieze hymn and the like. On the last turn that I am alive I draw infernal tutor with 2 dark rits and a cabal rit in hand. I get past in flames and win from there.
Game 2 I punt so very hard I attempt to cantrip into adnauseam with led mana but I sequence my cantrips incorrectly and put adnaseum 2 down from the top as opposed to one.
Game 3 is the worst grind ever and he has dethrite online to eat every good spell I discard, oh well win some lose some.

Through my testing and goldfishing for the 2 months that separate this event from the last. The day before the event I get frustrated with burning wish’s anti synergistic quality with cabal ritual. Like any good magic player I mess with a completely fine working deck.

2-23-2014 7th place at Flipside Gaming’s legacy 1k event.

I sleeve up this beast.

4 polluted delta
4 misty rain forest
2 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 tropical island
2 island
1 swamp
1 tendrils of agony
1 past in flames
1 adnauseaum
1 grim tutor
2 preordain
4 brainstorm
4 gitaxian probe
4 ponder
3 duress
4 cabal therapy
4 infernal tutor
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 lions eye diamond
4 lotus petal

Sideboard

3 abrupt decay
3 xantid swarm
3 surgical exraction
2 chain of vapor
1 duress
1 empty the warrens
1 bayou
1 massacre

I apologize in advance but my notes from this are significantly more sparse

Round 1 vs 43 lands with stage depths and punshing fire. 2-0
I lose the die roll but I keep a hand with rit rit adnausem. He goes turn one manabond and dumps his whole hand on the table representing a turn 2 marit lage. I adnauseaum from 20 and kill him dead.
Game 2 goes way long I keep fetchlands uncracked as not to fall victim to wasteland. I get to a point where I have 3 cabal rituals in hand and 1 dark ritual and I am able to kill through a sphere of resistance on the table.

Round 2 vs mono red goblins 2-1
I lose the die roll again and he goes mountain lackey go. .. I turn 2 adnauseum from 16. And kill him.
Game 2 see game one. Just swap lackey for aether vial.

Round 3 vs bug delver 2-0 same pilot as the ancestral bug player from my previous report.
Game one I blind therapy away force of will on my turn 2 leaving him with a daze and I am able to combo around daze with no problems.
Game 2 he leads with thoughtsieze and takes away a tutor. On my turn I draw xantid swarm. It dosnt matter because he kills it with golgari charm. it looks like he gets me with a delver and is able to hymn me back to back turns.
Game 3 the disruption favors me as I am able to win through a fow and a thoughtsieze with the only pressure being a death right shaman.

Round 4 UW stone blade. 0-2
Lose the die roll Game one I open a 3 cantrip hand and keep. He leads tundra ponder. I cantrip into a tutor. He goes divining top land go. I double cantrip into nothing relevant and pass. He passes with 3 lands up and cliques me eot he then plays a 4th land and slams jace and I concede.
Game 2
My notes are shot here but I know he plays a turn two meddling mage on adnauseum and I punt with chain of vapor. I was screwing around upping my storm count and forgot to bounce the mage.

Round 5 vs Mono black Grislestorm.
I win the die roll.
Game one I either turn one or turn two him.
Game one we demolish one another with unmasks and cabal therapies and I surgical him (not grislebrands unfourtunately) and then we play draw (nothing relevant at all) go for approximately 8 turns. He is able to cast grislebrand. I have 7 lands in play at the end of the game.
Game 3 I mull to 4. But I have 2 leds and a land. I play a land and play my leds and he goes dark ritual hypnotic spector. That hippy beat me all the way down to 4 he then soul spiked me for the win.

Round 6 do or die. 2-0 vs g/b elves combo.
Game one I sit down across from my opponent who says man I really underestimated the amount of combo that would be here today. I win the die roll. And then win the match.
Game 2 we cabal therapy each other and he turn 3 craterhoofs me to death.
Game 3 do or die I open a promising looking hand and lead with duress. I see glimpse x1 and 2 natural orders and 2 elves. I take the glimpse. I draw cabal therapy for my turn and get rid of the orders. I buy myself plenty of time to set up a past in flames loop.

Whoo hoo another top 8 !!!

Top 8 versus patriot delver.1-2
Game one my opponent knows what I am on and he mulls to 5 and passes without playing a land ! I duress away his force and combo on my turn 3 without him playing a single land.
Games 2 and 3 went almost exactly the same way a turn one delver and turn 2 meddling mage for him both times naming infernal tutor. Game 3 he even felt comfortable enough to play and equip a sword to the delver. And he knows I have xantid swarms because hes talking about it before top 8 cuts.

Oh well there’s always next time. Moving forwards im not sure which version of the deck I will be piloting they both have their nuances and quirks. I may be trying out a real spicy treat in the xantid swarm spot. If it goes well ill post back about it. Thanks for reading !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by godmodecomplex

Round 5 vs Mono black Grislestorm.

---

wat. this sounds interesting…

@sideboard-choices.
There is no perfect sideboard because The Metagame varies,depends on where you play.

Today there is a local legacy tournament with 5-6 Rounds in
Berlin where i come from.
I'm reloading my Machine Gun.
(Notable: Double Ad Nauseams in the Main)

My Sideboard looks like this:

3 abrupt decay
2 chain of vapout
3 dark confidant
1 notion thief
2 surgical extraction
2 xantid swarm
2 massacre

Notion thief comes in against the mirror and any grindy blue decks,especially those with jaces.
What notion thief did for me so far:

- totally mind twisted my opponents when they played brainstorm/jace.i always won the next turn,it was always 8 vs 1-2 cards :-)
- against TES in resp to Diminishing Returns :D
- against sneakshow or reanimator in resp to grizzel-draw
- have i mentioned that thief is the best counterspell against a enter the infinite?
My friend saw it and just commented "Infinite punishment for infinite greed!"
- once i just defeated my opponent with multiple thief-attacks and a mini-tendils on top if that.

I'm pondering to increase the number of Thiefs in my sideboard actually.
Maybe for the 3rd Bob although he is also pretty good in grindy games.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

So i'm back, played 4:1:0
And 9:3:0 in games with the tendrils-machine gun.

2:0 12-Post
2:1 Esper Deathblade
2:0 Team America
2:0 Sneak Show
1:2 Esper Deathblade


2 Ad Nauseams were great all the time,they were mostly cast in my opponents eot to prepare a headshot during the next turn.

I'm not well prepared against Esper Deathblade,are there any hatebears in the deck?
I brought in 2 Massacre in all games but never hit one of those.
Not sure enough how to board against such a deck to be honest.

But well,together with the other tournament on thursday my record for this week is 8:1:0,feels pretty good :D
There are 2 months left until Bazaar of Moxen and i think Ant is one of the decks i can imagine to bring.

Until then,i'm gonna reload the gun.



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

I forgot that reanimator boards in two more show and tells, so I got rid of the s/b grave hate, and put back in two dark confidants. I've been using mox diamond, and I am pretty satisfied with it.

After finishing my project "albino" ANT, I wanted to bring it to a real tournament again (my last tournament with ANT was some time early in 2013).

This is the list I played and how it went:
MANA
2 U. Sea
1 V. Island
1 Tundra
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 P. Delta
4 S. Tarn
4 D.Rit
4 C.Rit
4 L.Petal
4 LED

non-MANA
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Preordain
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 I.Tutor
1 Burning Wish
1 PiF
1 AdN
1 ToA

Side
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Dread of Night
3 Silence
1 Flusterstorm
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Massacre
1 ToA
1 I-GG
1 EtW

Round 1: Punishing Jund (2-0)
Round 2: Black & Taxes (2-0)
Round 3: UBr(g?) ANT (1-2)
Round 4: Patriot Delver (1-2)

Thoughts
* Silence weren't nearly as good as I expected them to be. Actually I think they are best to fight decks with Spell Snare + Stifle, while being randomly good in mirror matches
* I think I missplayed one Cabal Therapy in the ANT-mirror match. Here is what happend, I would like to know what you had called here.

In game 1 my OPP starts with Polluted Delta, LED, go (we both knew that this was a mirrormatch).
On my turn I cast Gitaxian Probe for 2 life, revealing: Brainstorm, Intuition, Past in Flames, Infernal Tutor, Duress, then I drew a Cabal Therapy. My hand looked like this: 2x Scalding Tarn, Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, LED, Past in Flames, Cabal Therapy. I opted to pass the turn and possibly react to his Duress by casting Brainstorm. However, his hand was read to go off, would he find a Ritual or two in his Brainstorm - so I cast Cabal Therapy, which he responded to by playing Brainstorm.

QUESTION: Which card would you name here and why?

I'd like to hear some oppinions on that. Thanks!

Xantid Swarms seems always better than Silence ,especially in combonation with Cabal Theraphy.
Running 1 Tundra for just 3 Copies of Silence is not worth it i guess.

However,once i brewed also a version with 7 copies of silence (silence+chant) 2 white duals and no discard.
The main reason was the popularity of ant and the mirrorgame where i always wanted to have an active silence to disrupt my opponents combo.
But i wouldn't run it anymore.





- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoboLord

In game 1 my OPP starts with Polluted Delta, LED, go (we both knew that this was a mirrormatch).
On my turn I cast Gitaxian Probe for 2 life, revealing: Brainstorm, Intuition, Past in Flames, Infernal Tutor, Duress, then I drew a Cabal Therapy. My hand looked like this: 2x Scalding Tarn, Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, LED, Past in Flames, Cabal Therapy. I opted to pass the turn and possibly react to his Duress by casting Brainstorm. However, his hand was read to go off, would he find a Ritual or two in his Brainstorm - so I cast Cabal Therapy, which he responded to by playing Brainstorm.

QUESTION: Which card would you name here and why?

I'd like to hear some oppinions on that. Thanks!

---

I'm just a beginner, but I really like discussions about situations like this.

He will most likely hide his Infernal Tutor, unless he wants to try some jedi mind trick and hide something else on top of his library. I would probably go ahead and name either one of the rituals, dark or cabal ritual. If he finds black ritual he'll go t2 ad nauseam if he found land/petal/second ritual in the brainstorm. Or then he might guess that I'll name a ritual so he hides a ritual on top of his deck and he leaves infernal tutor in his hand! ;) My answer would be dark ritual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sawatarix

@sloshthedark:

- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

---

Hi, first of all I'm sorry for the delay, I'm really busy these days, I do follow the thread on mobile devices but that and time limits me to answer

You did? It was really interesting scenario I regret I hadn't taken a picture of it, because I think Bonde nextleveled himself into can't win situation...
I remember you and in fact watched 1 or 2 of your matches, curious how will your burg build do (I also follow tempo threads) while looking for my mates.

I'm glad you joined our ranks, enjoy that and some of the dirty tech like Thief =)

to answer:

Ad Nauseam - reasoning could be really long.. my list in an answer itself it's build to beat tempo - 1st I play 2xPiF +/- since 2 months after printing of the card and never looked back... 2nd EtW despite recent hate pulls some fast kills I need at lower costs and still have application lategame... lifetotal is not an issue - Am I dead? No - I don't care... Ad Nauseam preasures me to not play cards like Notion Thief I enjoy casting... I cast Ad Nauseam 1/10-3/10 of games and major of the occasions is because I draw it naturally, 1st turn Ad Nauseam doesn't lead into a kill the same turn majority of times... generaly I missed it only vs. 7 discard Elves and some postboard games time to time, nothing particular... I believe I'm favored in mirrors anyway (and my results confirm it)... TES is a deck where I play Ad Nauseam

Lightning Bolt - used to play it as a 1of in sb, I found myself bringing it in postboard in every non combo match-up, no 1 target is Deathrite shaman and Delver, not Thalia ... A, Shaman is a big problem sometimes, B, games "delver" decks win starts with that card, without fast pressure I can roll over them, it got into a point I enjoy facing Canadian... current UWR which replaced UGR, it seems, is a joke, it's slow as hell, the only card I'm scared of is RiP postboard C, yeah it hits Thalia too... D, has some synergy with current double ToA build - feels good killing people with bolts... E, People often think your tempo - fully experienced how good it is in Paris - with Volc - go or Eot bolt (one of my opponents still had Swords and Jace in hand after 2 Brainstorms =D ), they play around stifles, protect creatures and such... funny =) ... Magma jet - I had some thoughts about that and Fire//Ice, the CC is too prohibitive for B-E

the list is interesting, I haven't played Bob for a long time, 4 ToA is overkill =D, I believe Xantid Swarm = 3,

other than that I'm really looking forward to your experience and progress and I hope I could reply sooner next time... unless BS gets axed we will meet on BoM for sure...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Machahiko

In game 1 my OPP starts with Polluted Delta, LED, go (we both knew that this was a mirrormatch).
On my turn I cast Gitaxian Probe for 2 life, revealing: Brainstorm, Intuition, Past in Flames, Infernal Tutor, Duress, then I drew a Cabal Therapy. My hand looked like this: 2x Scalding Tarn, Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, LED, Past in Flames, Cabal Therapy. I opted to pass the turn and possibly react to his Duress by casting Brainstorm. However, his hand was read to go off, would he find a Ritual or two in his Brainstorm - so I cast Cabal Therapy, which he responded to by playing Brainstorm.

QUESTION: Which card would you name here and why?

I'd like to hear some oppinions on that. Thanks!

---

oh you Ad Nauseam people...

1st of all land/petal+ritual (using Intuition), ritual+ritual/LED, is sure PiF loop I believe, land/petal+LED leads to Ad Nauseam and possible kill ... Ritual only lacks 1 storm (if I count correctly)...

my solution? - definitely cast Therapy, otherwise you're dead T2, or likely can't win T2, you want to minimize his chances and maximize yours - force him to play the BS ineffectively and try to win your turn... my call? the most of I'm dead combinations feat. DR so it's logical 1st choice (btw. I'm one of those who would keep IT in hand) ... my call is Duress and do not play a LED if BS is Cast and Duress is discarded, I want to win, not "not lose" and believe his chances are relatively low, there is even a chance you can try to win without tutor your T2 with blind PiF and double BS


// short report
haven't played since Paris so decklist is the same, Thursday, no of players is a positive surprise

R1 UWr CB
G1: top go, no turn 2 CB, I go for it, he Fows a LED, I PiF loop him
G2: top go - I keep nice 12 Goblins hand, draw ToA to pair with my PiF, no FoW = 1st turn ToA for healthy 20 and 35 mins to scout

R2 UBW something, no one plays Belcher today so I know what he's on, I dislike playing him, he is too confident, thinks too long and beats Bed Decks Palyer R1
G1: he Thoughtseizes me, I PiF him T3
G2: I suspect Gy hate and maybe Leyline (I sense some GP influence) so keep EtW no lander with probe, which doenst net me a land and shows double extraction+something, the game gets long and we get into situation him - 3 lands, 2x Bob, 15 life, Jace, BSK +2x Extraction in hand, me - DR+CR+LED+PIF+ETW+GP+x other cantrips in GY, IT on the stack 3B3R floating, storm 4... he lets it resolve, what will you do?


facepalm yourself and count the storm again... because Bed Deck Palyer was sitting next to us, beating his Bye opp in short manner, pointed out LED was played earlier and I miscounted the storm because of it and opps long thinking (Toa for 12 was my original idea), I went for a LED, opp extracted my DR and LEDs, so it's a GP lottery, no land again...

G3: I have rituals+fetch+xantid swarm+Sulfur Elemental hand (hmm what are you doing here).. he opens with Leyline... I have Trop->XS... for some reason (wasteland wtf?) I do not play Bayou drawn next turn, so I'm punnished by Stoneforge -> BSK, while drawing another Sulfur elemental... playing a MtG game (playing lands and such) I could have won easily...


R3 Monohate W eenie - more vintage bears than D+T, has Dazeowl, can't search Lion, ghost quarter, SotL and such
G1: he mulls 6 Mom- go, I discard a Thalia and kill him T2/3
G2: he keeps no white resource hand, takes time to get through wastelands and quarters (I have Toa for 14-16 all the time in hand), I bolt a revoker, he finds the plains, Sulfur Elemental kills thalia, attacks through Lion once, on his 17 life I ponder into EtW for 16 and ToA or 18


R4 Imperial Painter - I'm so glad I meet this guy again, haven't seen him for a long time... I saw 4 Trinispheres he had in SB before the tournament starts
G1 - he has T1 moon, I Swamp - TS, he has Grindstone and crap... for wtf I take Magus of the moon... my plan is 8-10 goblins next turn... he obv draws a painter, swamp is not a good prequisite do look for bolts, he has a pyro anyway...
G2+G3 - the games melt into one (and we played 2 other which I won - one through a Trinisphere =) G2 I kill him through moon, pyroblasting a Painter G3 he has a T1 moon again, I send 1 pyro to the bottom and regret it later

= 2:2 - generaly I played really badly, no excercise = no results, I could have won all the games besides UWr G1 when I got luckly opp misplayed...

Yeah, I tried to quickly count what he would need from top of his deck to win immediately with PiF in hand, but my estimate was that he would need to get pretty relevant cards. Ad Nauseam needs less to be cast and if you get to refill your hand you should be able to win t2/3 and possibly rip the hand of opponent to pieces while you get to keep a hand that the opponent shouldn't be able to win. That's why I immediately thought of AdN, instead of PiF even though it is clearly the better option here. If you get the cards to execute it. :wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

R2 UBW something, no one plays Belcher today so I know what he's on, I dislike playing him, he is too confident, thinks too long and beats Bed Decks Palyer R1
G1: he Thoughtseizes me, I PiF him T3
G2: I suspect Gy hate and maybe Leyline (I sense some GP influence) so keep EtW no lander with probe, which doenst net me a land and shows double extraction+something, the game gets long and we get into situation him - 3 lands, 2x Bob, 15 life, Jace, BSK +2x Extraction in hand, me - DR+CR+LED+PIF+ETW+GP+x other cantrips in GY, IT on the stack 3B3R floating, storm 4... he lets it resolve, what will you do?


facepalm yourself and count the storm again... because Bed Deck Palyer was sitting next to us, beating his Bye opp in short manner, pointed out LED was played earlier and I miscounted the storm because of it and opps long thinking (Toa for 12 was my original idea), I went for a LED, opp extracted my DR and LEDs, so it's a GP lottery, no land again...

---

It was WUBg Deathblade.

Imho Tom plays just enough fast to not be called for Slow Play. Also, I believe it's not intentional, he does it just because it helps him to not miss the obvious (like I do, because I'm lazy to think about things) and thus he puts quite some results; unless i'm mistaken, he leaves the lgs with a prize quite often.
Also, his slowness is overrated and it's just a local joke, sometimes there are other ppl who end in turns...


U mad at me bro? :frown:
Sry for the LED, but I really think that
a) I must correct you when both of you are wrong on game state,
b) you shouldn't let yourself get distracted by Tom's long "Thinking", in fact it's a time well spent as you had one more minute to think out your next play and finally
c) you've a bit next-leveled yourself, as for me it was clear that you'll go for the ToA and try to let him die to his own Confidants; in fact I was really surprised you've decided otherwise, as every other play was doomed due to his (unwillingness to play the) Extraction.

If only Tom had Extracted something beforehand and thus increased the storm count (and also dropped by another two life?), it'll be really easy. This way you needed to rely on his bad luck with Confidants, but as he had two of them out, and needed to tap out for JTMS on his next turn to even have any chance to manage those Bobs, I still believe you should have tried this play. Yep, you'd lose if he'd be lucky, but it was a desperate situation and these call for a desperate solutions.

I'm not even sure if there was any mistake on your part. You played the best you could and wasn't exactly lucky, then A+B happened over which you've had very little control. (Ok, one may argue you should count the storm right, but this happens; btw, that's why I never wrote storm-commas, but always spell-shortcuts on my combo turn.) So this leaves us with C where you brainfarted, but then again, it wasn't obvious that he'll lose on upkeep: he could easily BS or naturally reveal some lands, than play JTMS and Jacestrom any Ponder/EE/land on top and then simply overwhelm you with CA until (if ever) there will be no lands to put JTMS on top: which hardly ever happens with him drawing four cards per turn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoboLord

In game 1 my OPP starts with Polluted Delta, LED, go (we both knew that this was a mirrormatch).
On my turn I cast Gitaxian Probe for 2 life, revealing: Brainstorm, Intuition, Past in Flames, Infernal Tutor, Duress, then I drew a Cabal Therapy. My hand looked like this: 2x Scalding Tarn, Brainstorm, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual, LED, Past in Flames, Cabal Therapy. I opted to pass the turn and possibly react to his Duress by casting Brainstorm. However, his hand was read to go off, would he find a Ritual or two in his Brainstorm - so I cast Cabal Therapy, which he responded to by playing Brainstorm.

QUESTION: Which card would you name here and why?

I'd like to hear some oppinions on that. Thanks!

---

I think I'd name Duress.

My initial thought was Duress, but then, I started thinking, he can only hide one card he wants to keep if the brainstorm doesn't rip him a land, unless he want to not fetch for another full turn, etc, so maybe if you've got some kind of read on him, you can hit something else ... but then I realized, he fetched to play the brainstorm in the first place, what the hell was I thinking?)

I still probably name Duress. I'd rather he not hit my hand, holding what you were holding (your hand seems pretty close to having it to me, but without the brainstorm, less so - if he hides the duress on top and plays it next turn, I guess that's what happens).

I don't know if that's right/wrong, I'm not great at this game, it's just what I think I'd do.

Thank you for your replies on my Cabal-Therapy-question.

In that situation I called Duress.
My thoughts were pretty much explained by other posters already, but here's ashort summary:

* naming Infernal Tutor wasn't an option because he (1) might hide it on top and (2) won't need it to go off since he had Past in Flames and Intuition in hand
* so my choice was to either name a ritual (which was all he needed to go off), or Duress. If I named a ritual it would be Dark Ritual, given the fact that Cabal Ritual would not produce enough mana.
* however, I named Duress, because, if I called "Dark Rit" (or a 2nd LED, which would also enable the comboturn), he would cast Duress and grab my Brainstorm next turn - which would put me too far behind to go off before he does (since he was 'closer' to going off than I was).
* besides, IF he found Dark Ritual (or LED) with his Brainstorm he would probably hide it on top of his library to enable the combo turn

It turned out he found 2 Rituals and 1 Land in his Brainstorm and hid the 2 Rituals on top. So, I managed to take his Duress, but he went off next turn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

It was WUBg Deathblade.

Imho Tom plays just enough fast to not be called for Slow Play. Also, I believe it's not intentional, he does it just because it helps him to not miss the obvious (like I do, because I'm lazy to think about things) and thus he puts quite some results; unless i'm mistaken, he leaves the lgs with a prize quite often.
Also, his slowness is overrated and it's just a local joke, sometimes there are other ppl who end in turns...


U mad at me bro? :frown:
Sry for the LED, but I really think that
a) I must correct you when both of you are wrong on game state,
b) you shouldn't let yourself get distracted by Tom's long "Thinking", in fact it's a time well spent as you had one more minute to think out your next play and finally
c) you've a bit next-leveled yourself, as for me it was clear that you'll go for the ToA and try to let him die to his own Confidants; in fact I was really surprised you've decided otherwise, as every other play was doomed due to his (unwillingness to play the) Extraction.

If only Tom had Extracted something beforehand and thus increased the storm count (and also dropped by another two life?), it'll be really easy. This way you needed to rely on his bad luck with Confidants, but as he had two of them out, and needed to tap out for JTMS on his next turn to even have any chance to manage those Bobs, I still believe you should have tried this play. Yep, you'd lose if he'd be lucky, but it was a desperate situation and these call for a desperate solutions.

I'm not even sure if there was any mistake on your part. You played the best you could and wasn't exactly lucky, then A+B happened over which you've had very little control. (Ok, one may argue you should count the storm right, but this happens; btw, that's why I never wrote storm-commas, but always spell-shortcuts on my combo turn.) So this leaves us with C where you brainfarted, but then again, it wasn't obvious that he'll lose on upkeep: he could easily BS or naturally reveal some lands, than play JTMS and Jacestrom any Ponder/EE/land on top and then simply overwhelm you with CA until (if ever) there will be no lands to put JTMS on top: which hardly ever happens with him drawing four cards per turn.

---

No, it's completely my fault I was too unfocused // focused wrong direction ... I don't mind people taking their time where it's important, I dislike using time and bluffing thought process with every additional Island drawn as a strategic advantage in a 5$ entry tournament (like our friend Pavel used to do - it annoys me because I DO NOT care at all!!! I do not follow these signals, this kind of behaviour and do not use it for my decisions unless I know the people and how they play)... I also do not think it's that bad per se or take his right to do that, he's one of the people who mentaly/behaviorally force you to play his game - I have enough of this at work... winning or losing - it does not mean much to me, it's an obstacle but without motivation and thrill to beat it, simply said I do not enjoy playing with him thats all... for example my last round opponent, I was happy to play 2 more games despite losing and knowing a lot work awaits me at home

A, yeah but the boardstate was not wrong, the storm was ok but different card was played, I had the ToA 12 as a sure way to go, but while Tom was thinking I tried to solve the puzzle as solution felt really close, just made the decision A and went too deep into my thoughts, I sort if panicked inside because on 5 life it's not so sure he kills himself and I'm unable to reconstruct my thought process that lead me into my decision A and adopted decision B which was complicated and risky
B, not quite, one reason I do not use dice is all the turning distracts me (the other one is - some types of dice = storm.dec, therefore I make sure I never have one) and I distract myself apparently =) especially when tired
C, it's clear if he has 3 life left, not 5, so the mistake is obvious - choosing more risky path under false impression the other being worse

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

No, it's completely my fault I was too unfocused // focused wrong direction ... I don't mind people taking their time where it's important, I dislike using time and bluffing thought process with every additional Island drawn as a strategic advantage in a 5$ entry tournament (like our friend Pavel used to do - it annoys me because I DO NOT care at all!!! I do not follow these signals, this kind of behaviour and do not use it for my decisions unless I know the people and how they play)... I also do not think it's that bad per se or take his right to do that, he's one of the people who mentaly/behaviorally force you to play his game - I have enough of this at work... winning or losing - it does not mean much to me, it's an obstacle but without motivation and thrill to beat it, simply said I do not enjoy playing with him thats all... for example my last round opponent, I was happy to play 2 more games despite losing and knowing a lot work awaits me at home

---

Yep, this is what I may sign.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

A, yeah but the boardstate was not wrong, the storm was ok but different card was played, I had the ToA 12 as a sure way to go, but while Tom was thinking I tried to solve the puzzle as solution felt really close, just made the decision A and went too deep into my thoughts, I sort if panicked inside because on 5 life it's not so sure he kills himself and I'm unable to reconstruct my thought process that lead me into my decision A and adopted decision B which was complicated and risky
B, not quite, one reason I do not use dice is all the turning distracts me (the other one is - some types of dice = storm.dec, therefore I make sure I never have one) and I distract myself apparently =) especially when tired
C, it's clear if he has 3 life left, not 5, so the mistake is obvious - choosing more risky path under false impression the other being worse

---

Well, lesson learned. This is why I left the deck... :laugh:

Btw, I'll come on 22nd (or is it 23rd?) and I hope we'll meet!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

(the other one is - some types of dice = storm.dec, therefore I make sure I never have one)

---

I played a test game last Friday with a buddy of mine, he was playing UWR Delver. I had Island (tapped, I'd just pondered), Misty, Misty on the board and a hand that could go off through anything but FoW, he had two flipped Delvers, a Jitte and three lands (one untapped) on the board, a spell pierce (which he flipped the delvers off of) and one unknown card in hand - I decided to just go for it, figuring letting that Jitte hit me and letting him draw another card while hoping for hand disruption is worse than just making him have it right now, since I have to go off next turn if I don't go off this turn ...

I played petal, he pierced, I said "Pierce resolves, storm count three" -> His response? "Oh, crap" - he thought I was playing S&T/sneak or something like that and going for petal, fetch, fetch, S&T (I am not sure why he pierced the petal thinking that, it seems like waiting for the S&T and piercing that is better if you think that's what I'm on, but hey)

Anyway, the 'don't leak what you're playing' bit there made me think of that. I've been tracking storm counts by just making marks on my score sheet notes, because I can make sure that sheet is gone from the pad when I go into the next match ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anomie-p

I played a test game last Friday with a buddy of mine, he was playing UWR Delver. I had Island (tapped, I'd just pondered), Misty, Misty on the board and a hand that could go off through anything but FoW, he had two flipped Delvers, a Jitte and three lands (one untapped) on the board, a spell pierce (which he flipped the delvers off of) and one unknown card in hand - I decided to just go for it, figuring letting that Jitte hit me and letting him draw another card while hoping for hand disruption is worse than just making him have it right now, since I have to go off next turn if I don't go off this turn ...

I played petal, he pierced, I said "Pierce resolves, storm count three" -> His response? "Oh, crap" - he thought I was playing S&T/sneak or something like that and going for petal, fetch, fetch, S&T (I am not sure why he pierced the petal thinking that, it seems like waiting for the S&T and piercing that is better if you think that's what I'm on, but hey)

Anyway, the 'don't leak what you're playing' bit there made me think of that. I've been tracking storm counts by just making marks on my score sheet notes, because I can make sure that sheet is gone from the pad when I go into the next match ...

---

From playing this deck a lot, I have gotten to the point where I almost never write down my storm count on the first few spells.
That is usually enough for a rare free win as you demonstrated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

From playing this deck a lot, I have gotten to the point where I almost never write down my storm count on the first few spells.
That is usually enough for a rare free win as you demonstrated.

---

+1