[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

Alright, gonna first post some thoughts on Scape after Mythic and then I'll get to Maharis's deck and other responses.

For reference, my list:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Dualcaster Mage
2 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library

2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run

SB:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm
1 Twinflame

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Rd 1: Eli with Grixis Pyromancer

Much more of a control build, with Counterspell and no Delvers that I saw.

Game one I have a pretty strong draw with a good mix of everything. He Cruises a couple of times, but none of the cards that he's drawing actually protect him from the Scapeshift + Dualcaster in my hand. He's forced to Force Thragtusks and Burning Wishes along the way, which clears the way for a protected Shift.

Game two he has quick pyromancer and I just kind of sit around and durdle a bit. I tried to Pyroclasm him with DCM backup -- he Snap-Counterspells the Pyroclasm, I Dualcaster, and he Forces the Dualcaster. I die pretty quickly after that.

Game three I have a good scapeshift hand -- ramp into shift + dcm + witness. He makes some pressure with a Pyromancer, and while I get to 7 lands, I can't Scapeshift that turn (I don't remember why off the top). His Cruise is 3/3 the cards he needs, going from basically empty to a hand of Force+blue+Therapy. He Therapies my Scapeshift and my Eternal Witness, and passes. I try to sweep him, but he has the Force (drawn off of the above god-Cruise). DCM gets countered somewhere along the way - I think I wanted a Brainstorm or to send a Lightning Bolt back at his Pyromancer or something. Fuzzy memory is fuzzy.

tl;dr: very close match, he had to hit basically a perfect Cruise to win.

Rd 2: Grixis 8rack?

This was a brew....seemed decent, though. Had some adorableness like Liliana's Carass + Dack Fayden.

G1 I tore his hand apart, Deeded away both of his Racks, and then stabilized Huntmaster vs Liliana, eventually shifting for the win.

G2 was basically a repeat of g1, although I Twinflamed my Wood Elves to get to 7 lands to kill him.

Rd 3: Grixis Delver

G1 t1 Delver->2 wastes+2 stifles+daze+FoW. Rip.

G2 I get punched by a t1 Delver for 18 before finally stabilizing it and killing the fucking thing. He draws a Bolt the next turn.

Note: this match I got to Dualcaster a Ponder. While not ideal (I'd Therapied him for Cruise and bricked, so I decided not to hold it for forever), even something as simple as a Ponder felt disgusting. Jund should not have blue card draw.

Rd 4: UWR Delver

He mulls to 6 on the play and unleashes this sequence on me:

Delver -> (blind flip), Ponder, Spell Pierce -> SFM + FoW [pitching Cruise!!) + Waste -> Batterskull + Waste -> Bolt Bolt

KAY.

G2 I lead with Therapy on Brainstorm and whiff. He has Delver, SFM, some lands, a Bolt I think?

He runs out his Delver + SFM, which I Pyroclasm away. He plays another Delver and SFM. I sigh, but play a Deed and crack it to nuke his new board. He plays a 3rd SFM. I E.Wit back my Deed and Deed away his SFM + Jitte, leaving him with exactly Batterskull + Sword of Fire/Ice in hand. I then flashback Therapy on the Batterskull, saccing the Witness. He topdecks a True-Name. He punches me for a few turns. I get up to 9 lands, and play a Deed with DCM backup and the ability to Deed for 3 to get rid of his TNN + Sword. He taps 5 lands to Force Deed, I flash in DCM, he Forces pitching blue to counter the DCM.

I fucking hate magic.

Like, what makes that round so tilting is that I had perfect information on him the entire game from the t1 Therapy + later flashback. I KNEW how well he was drawing the entire game.

So, 1-3 and an angry drop. I can safely chalk most of that up to variance -- Eli's perfect Cruise, grixis Delver having "delver hands," the bullshit in round 4. It still doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the GP, but I'm pretty set on my course at this point. I just have to hope for better draws / for my opponents to not be actual deities. I don't understand how any fucking deck can beat Delver when it gets hands like that.

The take aways:

Scapewish is not a Sylvan Library version. Sylvan is fine in the other builds, but my initial instinct was correct and Top is just too important in this particular build. Being able to look on-demand with all of the shuffles is critical.

Wolf Run kind of screwed me again by not being a black source. I may cut it for a 3rd Bayou and just rock Thrun wolfrunless. As much as I always want to make Thrunrun work (because I know how good it is), I ALWAYS get punished by my manabase for doing so. I must be the unluckiest person in the world, because I know most of you + most of my friends don't have this problem, but here I sit.

Dualcaster is jesus's tit from which flows the nectar of life. Seriously. It didn't snag anything savage on the day, but even just getting low-middling things // acting as a counterspell to protect important plays, it was ridiculous. I will say this, though: the card is HARD to play. I'm 100% sure that I was not playing it even close to correctly, and if I actually knew what I was doing with it, I may have been able to squeeze out a game or two that I instead lost. Knowing when to hold it up vs when to tap out for threats is very challenging, as is knowing what to try copy, when.

Obstinate Baloth being a 4/4 and not just dying to Bolt is massive.

I need creatures that are also removal spells. I'm seriously thinking about trying to find room for some Flametongue Kavus or some similar shit. Obviously I'd rather run something that's GSZable, but sadly we don't really get those options.

Finding space in the deck is pretty miserable at this point, but I need some removal main, I think. I'm sick of Delver always having the t1 delver and it always blind-flipping on turn 2. I've put up with this shit since Innistrad and I'm beyond tired of it. Like if they didn't have it even 50% of the time, then fine, but it's every goddamn game =/

I think that Dualcaster's advent makes the deck much more "Scapeshifty" and less "midrange with combo endgame." This is why I want to find some creatures that are also removal spells, because I want to keep that midrange/combo hybrid feel...but it may be that the deck is just better if I cut all the midrange elements and make it heavy combo with maybe 1-2 creature bombs. I can't actually rave about Dualcaster enough, and the card only resolved like twice on the day.

I'm going to do some heavy theorizing today and try to come up with a solution by the end of the day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maharis

OK, I've done a little testing. I think I have a solid value list — no real tricks, a couple toolboxes. I have no byes for the GP so I will definitely be playing round 1. So I'm expecting to see burn, dredge, elves early.


4 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Siege Rhino
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Batterskull

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Golgari Charm
1 Recurring Nightmare

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Marsh Flats

It is 61 cards. I could probably cut the Marsh Flats. Vault was the 61st card, but I really love it against the burn decks that I feel like will be endemic throughout the tournament. I actually thought about Diamond Valley, but it doesn't produce mana, and Miren requires you to have 3 mana + a creature on board which isn't all that different than Vault anyway. Plus, there's lots of neat tricks and you can gain a lot more life with Vault.

Where I'm stuck is the sideboard. These are the cards I want to have:

3 Thoughtseize
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle

It's worth respecting combo decks and graveyard decks. Needle is also a nice catch-all.

Then I'm wondering about these:

1-2 Gaddock Teeg (Obviously I want this in for trouble matchups. Not sure if I want to have the extra in my pocket though. Not coming in vs. Cruise at all)
0-1 additional removal (Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse or Council's Judgement. Or none.)
0-1 additional disenchant effects (Pridemage, Reclamation Sage, Krosan Grip. Batterskull is annoying...)
0-2 additional sweeper (Deluge, Deed, Charm. I would lean toward Deluge to hedge against opposing Pithing Needles.)
0-2 Planeswalkers (Probably Liliana of the Veil. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is the only other one I would consider. Didn't like any of the Garruks vs. Miracles which is a key reason I want a PW. Lili clears their board but doesn't win the game. Sorin goes up in loyalty to make dudes then steals their Jace. Both -2 abilities are irrelevant.)
0-1 Scavenging Ooze (I had this in the main but went with a 4th DRS instead. While Scooze is more of a blowout against dredge it's luck or a GSZ turn which makes it pretty unreliable.)
0-2 Carpet of Flowers (I think a PW is better against miracles. I should be able to make land drops and with 4 DRS can still do t1 dork into t2 must-answer play)

I have decided that I don't really care about a resolved Treasure Cruise all that much. We are an x-for-1 deck so with patience, luck, and planning for how decks with Treasure Cruise use it, it should be largely irrelevant if they draw more cards. Nice Forked Bolt, I have a Siege Rhino, you know? I'd rather just go over the top than play cards that actively screw with our own game plan like Teeg in the main or that require a significant time and mana investment like Scooze just to keep them from drawing more cantrips eventually. Deathrite can control their GY a bit while clocking them or gaining life.

The only other thing I am trying to decide is 3rd Deed/2nd Charm/1st Deluge vs. 2nd Sylvan. Sylvan is so good, even if it's deeded away. Just drawing one extra card off of it can swing a game immensely. But I see most lists have 3 sweepers and 3 library manipulators. Charm is a meta call, it hits the YP and Elf armies for no life (and for 2 mana). I want to keep the curve somewhat low too and run 3 Decay, it's just a hammer. Not hitting TNN sucks, but it does deal with other annoyances like Goyf.

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Okay, here's my thoughts on this.

4 Vet, 4 DRS. Heavy ramp package. I generally think that 6 1-drop accel is fine, in some combination (usually 4-2 one way or the other). The full 8 is fine if you have things to do with it.

2 Finks -- with no Pod, I don't think that two copies of this guy are good enough. I do think that 1 copy is solid, though.

2 KotR -- I won't lie, I don't like KotR here. KotR is useful is you're trying together a land package (Stage Depths, chaining Wastes), or if you're using him as a big beatstick preferably with maze of ith for vigilance. Option 2 no longer exists thanks to Deathrite Shaman keeping her size manageable. You don't have enough utility lands to really rock her as a crop rotation, and I don't think that such an approach is really tenable as a distinct variation. I'd cut both of these.

2 Rhino -- Rhino is love, Rhino is life.

1 Qasali -- Reclamation Sage is 100% better. Can't be needled, works well with Recurring Nightmare whereas Qasali doesn't Nightmare at all.

1 E.Wit -- yup.

1 Tusk -- still probably necessary. There may be an argument to running Tuskless and jamming an ObBaloth or a 3rd Rhino instead. But Tusk is, after all, still Tusk.

1 Sylvan Safekeeper -- this is an interesting choice. I've used Safekeeper before, but only when I have big bombs to protect (and usually Sun Titan to recoup the land, essentially giving Titan shroud for free). You don't really have the things to protect right now, but we can fix that.

1 Batterskull -- Skull is Skull. It's solid if unexciting.

The spells are all pretty fine, although I think that the 2nd Library is probably unnecessary. I can respect Golgari Charm over the 3rd Deed, but recognize that it comes with trade-offs: sometimes you won't be able to kill delvers, nettle sentinels, etc that you'll really want to.

23 lands is too many. 22 is good and that's without the Deathrites. With 4 Deathrites you can probably get away with 21, honestly, although I'm not sure that we'll come to that point.

So let's see....

-1 land
-2 Kotr
-1 finks
-1 sylvan lib

-1 qasali
+1 rec sage

5 slots open

1 sigarda, 1 baneslayer, 1 sun titan, 1 sakura-tribe elder, 1 siege rhino would be my recommendation. You could run the 2nd Baneslayer over the Sun Titan, but I adore Sun Titan and would personally run it. That pads your top-end a little while increasing consistency a little by being able to GSZ for a land + shuffle effect (if you're really looking for something with Top, Sakura is pretty baller).

I would 100% run the 2nd Baneslayer in the sideboard if you don't elect to run it main.

Garruk Relentless, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Elspeth, Knight-Errant are the 3 best planeswalkers to sideboard (or mainboard) for vs control decks. There isn't really a "best" choice of them, although I would favor Garruk Relentless and probably Elspeth, K-E for your particular board.

I would recommend at least 1 Krosan Grip, possibly 2 copies.

Carpet of Flowers is more for Delver than it is for Miracles, and I think that you would probably be better served running extra removal spells than running Carpets since you're on the full 4 DRS. 2 Swords to Plowshares? Or, if you wanted to go deep and run something good vs Delver and Miracles both, Abzan Charm is a pretty fine gentleman.

@BUG Control: Discussed a build with Arianhood, but it is just a brew yet and way from ready to crush some tournaments. I still think that the new Titania feels right in a BUG Shell, because it is the only Nic Fit Shell with enough Fetches and it is easy to cast Titania and get another 5/3, so 5 Mana and 10 Power (with possible "more") split into two creature isn't bad or? Sure Titania dies to bolt, but it seems that every BUG (or blue) Creature dies to bolt - so it isn't scary enough. The build also included a Karakas, for more profit with Cliques, Venser, Titania or even Thrun (and against Sneak & Show).

@Scapeshift:

Deck seems really attractive now. Made a couple of online test and pushed it to a 4:0 in matchups (Deathblade, Goblins, MUD, BUG Delver). So i am satisfied enough for the moment.

Build is more or less the same compared to Arianhoods above:

Maindeck:
-1 Sylvan Library
+1 Sensei's Diving Top

-1 Obstinate Baloth
+1 Huntmaster of the Fells

-1 Thrun, the Last Troll
+1 Garruk Relentless

-1 Dualcaster Mage
+1 Scavenging Ooze

-1 Green Sun's Zenith
+2 Thoughtseize

=61 cards

Side:
-1 Slaughter Games
-2 Thoughtseize
-2 Red Elemental Blast
+1 Batterskull
+2 Carpet of Flowers
+1 Duress
+1 Toxic Deluge

Dualcaster is really good, but i think two are enough to gain some advantage. Sometimes he isn't fast enough (sadly not a 2 Mana Snapcaster..) and sometimes you have it in hand and no target is avaible - but i copied some discard, brainstorm, treasure cruise and burning wish to gain advantage, so the card feels right here.

Double Huntmaster - unsure about him, sometimes he rocks sometimes he dies to "everthing". Maybe 1 Huntmaster and 1 Baloth (UR Delver = Meta Call) is a better config now. Garruk (i love him, so i try him in every build) seems ok, but maybe it's time for Thrun again. Thrun can stall the Ground and is a Beast with Wolfrun. The Land itself feels great, it is card number 61 but it won several matches and with Miracle and UR Delver Wasteland isn't so troublesome now.

Deed Number 3 was right - sometimes i think deed isn't fast enough, but in every game i was happy to cast deed.

Sideboard: Unsure if i want Carpet, or Red Blast or Both. Sure i want 1 Batterskull. This thing safed my but against a grindy Match vs BUG - faced double 5/6 gofy and Batterskull stalled the game until i Scapeshift him away for 36 :tongue:

Arianrhod, if I recall we never did get a tournament report from your eternal weekend. I remember you saying you had mana problems, butcould you elaborate a little more on your matches? What did or did not come together? What changes might you make to the Abzan list? Thanks!

Here's where I'm at, if anyone is running the BUG version:

Land (22)
2x Bayou
1x Forest
3x Island
3x Misty Rainforest
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Polluted Delta
2x Swamp
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs

Enchantment (3)
3x Pernicious Deed

Creature (14)
4x Baleful Strix
2x Consecrated Sphinx
2x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Notion Thief
1x Thragtusk
4x Veteran Explorer

Instant (12)
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
2x Dig Through Time
4x Force of Will

Sorcery (6)
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Ponder

Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Arcane Laboratory (should be Clique)
2x Envelop (should probably be Flusterstorm)
2x Pithing Needle
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Library
4x Thoughtseize
1x Thragtusk
1x Venser, Shaper Savant

DRS is great in some matchups, but I cut him because he doesn't shine vs Delver and we live in a Delver world right now. The Notion Thief is a fun-of and could be anything; I'm relatively confident in the rest of the main deck at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ironclad8690

Arianrhod, if I recall we never did get a tournament report from your eternal weekend. I remember you saying you had mana problems, butcould you elaborate a little more on your matches? What did or did not come together? What changes might you make to the Abzan list? Thanks!

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My deck straight trolled me, so there wasn't really anything much to say.

I played vs UR Delver both rounds....

r1g1 I kept like, 2 land Explorer and some other stuff.....Explorer got Forced and I never drew another land
r1g2 I kept 3 lands Top Rhino Decay on a mull to 6 I think? Decay his first Swiftspear, he plays 2 more, I never hit the 4th/5th land to curve Rhino->Thune->Thrag (all of which were in my hand by the end). My Deed got Forced.

r2g1 was basically a repeat of r1g2 except my opponent had all four Taylors by turn 3.
r2g2 I kept 4 lands rhino X X, played Rhino on time (resolved), which stalled his Taylor x1 for a while, but then I proceeded to flood out. I ended that game with legit like 10 lands in play.

Like, there wasn't really anything for me to write a report on.

Now, if you want to hear about how I then got 2nd place in the 74-person vintage trial that night for 225, or how I was threatening top 8 in vintage champs on Sunday until like round 8, then sure -- that will have much more information on my weekend! Legacy was a weeping bust, though.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
2 Spike Feeder
2 Siege Rhino
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Council's Judgment

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Sylvan Library

2 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower

sb::
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Thoughtseize
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
2 Baneslayer Angel

This is my last list for white...I think it's actually the exact list I played. I still think the list is good, but honestly I'd probably try to squeeze in a Sakrua-Tribe or two so smooth out the mana a little. This thing's raw power level is so ludicrously high that as long as it gets to cast its spells it should win the game.

Its times like these Id love it if Vexing Shusher had Shroud.

Edit: Actually, would he still be viable even if he dies to removal?

Titania + Zuran Orb seems great.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html

With all this reports on the performance of DCM, I was thinking: do you guys thing that a PF wish list with twinflame as a combo finisher would be viable?

The problem I see is that pf lists tends to go light on creature, so it might be difficult to set the first twinflame. On the other hand, if we go for the 3CMC option, the combo would be then at 8 mama, which might be a little too much.

Thoughts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

The take aways:

Scapewish is not a Sylvan Library version. Sylvan is fine in the other builds, but my initial instinct was correct and Top is just too important in this particular build. Being able to look on-demand with all of the shuffles is critical.

Wolf Run kind of screwed me again by not being a black source. I may cut it for a 3rd Bayou and just rock Thrun wolfrunless. As much as I always want to make Thrunrun work (because I know how good it is), I ALWAYS get punished by my manabase for doing so. I must be the unluckiest person in the world, because I know most of you + most of my friends don't have this problem, but here I sit.

Dualcaster is jesus's tit from which flows the nectar of life. Seriously. It didn't snag anything savage on the day, but even just getting low-middling things // acting as a counterspell to protect important plays, it was ridiculous. I will say this, though: the card is HARD to play. I'm 100% sure that I was not playing it even close to correctly, and if I actually knew what I was doing with it, I may have been able to squeeze out a game or two that I instead lost. Knowing when to hold it up vs when to tap out for threats is very challenging, as is knowing what to try copy, when.

Obstinate Baloth being a 4/4 and not just dying to Bolt is massive.

I need creatures that are also removal spells. I'm seriously thinking about trying to find room for some Flametongue Kavus or some similar shit. Obviously I'd rather run something that's GSZable, but sadly we don't really get those options.

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1) I also experienced, a lot (unfortunately), the color issue inherent to scape fit. We need black sources and I want it no later than T1.
14 black sources is the optimal number to be reached to perform a black spell by T1.

4 Taiga
4 Badlands
4 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

This mana base is the more balanced one (10 mountains configuration):
14 green, 14 black, 14 red (I don't take into account valakut as it comes tapped)

4 Taiga
1 Bloodcrypt
4 Badlands
3 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

This mana base is safer when it comes to kill with Valakut (11 mountains configuration), but it is softer to T1 = green source + veteran.
13 green, 14 black, 15 red. 13 green is perfectly acceptable as long as you are not in the T1 veteran bandwagon at all cost, since the rest of the green cards are not meant to be played by T1.
13 green is still odds > 90% to have a green source by T2.

2) Flametongue seems pretty weak. At least, it does live. But I'd rather prefer something like fleshbag marauder or shriekmaw.

Here is the list I'm training & tuning with for the record:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dark confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging ooze
2 Dualcaster Mage
2 Prophetic flamespeaker

3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
4 Abrupt decay

3 Sensei's Divining Top

SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Slaughter Games
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm
1 Twinflame
1 Toxic deluge
1 Ruination
1 Reanimate
1 Pulverize
1 Reverent Silence

So I went to the Legacy Buncha-duals in Lincoln, RI Saturday and went 2-1 drop with Nic Fit Scapeshift. The reason why I went 2-1 drop is because of how slow the tournament was running, I just couldn't stand it anymore being 2 hours away from home and only finished round 3 of 7 by 5pm.

Anyway...that now makes me 5-3 in tournament play with the deck total and like where its at so far (testing I have like 50 matches played). Here is a mini report:

Round 1: Omnitell (2-1) 1-0
G1: I lose to an early omniscience hardcasting emrakul (turn 3 I believe).
G2: Carpet of Flowers accelerates my plays greatly, and I Scapeshift for 36 after cabal therapying a FoW.
G3: Most ridiculous thing I have ever done in magic, cast 4 cabal therapy in 1 turn. It was turn 5, I had a vet explorer in hand and a sylvan library in play. Library shows Therapy, Therapy, land. So obviously I pay 4 life for the 2nd therapy. I cabal therapy my opponent (at 6 cards at this point) naming omniscience. I see a hand of: Fow, Flusterstorm, DTT, Cunning Wish, Emrakul, Dream Halls.

1) I cast vet explorer - resolves
2) Flashback explorer - in response, my opponent uses cunning wish to get a dig through time...when he already had one...therapy resolves and I name DTT...obviously...opponent has 4 cards left in hand
3) I cast cabal therapy - opponent FoW pitching brainstorm...I pyroblast it...therapy resolves and I name dream halls.
4) I cast Huntmaster, sac the wolf token to flashback cabal therapy naming emrakul.

In 1 turn, I took my opponent from 6 cards to no cards with my having tremendous board advantage. A few turns later I get the win.

Round 2: DeathBlade (1-2) 1-1
G1 & G2: There isn't much to say about these 2 games. My opponent had damn near perfect hands with early disruption and early threats both games. He treasure cruised 4 times (2 in each game) and they got him answers to every threat I played....happens.

Round 3: RUG Delver (2-1) 2-1
This match was against someone that is good friends with some of my good friends, so it was a friendlier game of magic...even though I absolutely crushed them as any Delver deck is basically a bye.

G1: They play threats, I play threats, mine stave off their threats...scapeshift for 36 wins the game.
G2: I keep a one-lander for giggles...obviously I don't draw any more lands in a 24 land deck. I scoop after turn 3. I did this because I knew I was going home after the match anyways, but also, I found that being on the play against Delver significantly increases your chances of winning and would rather go immediately to G3 with plenty of time.
G3: Pernicious Deeds x2 and Pyroclasm wipe the board 3 times. I hardcast primeval titan leaving me with 2x valakut and 4x mountain in play. Next turn I twinflamed primeval titan dealing 12, and then swung with both titans triggering another 24 damage before combat.

(For the record I was nice and scooped to this person anyways because I was leaving)

I didn't have dualcaster mage for this tournament...but I can think of 7 particular times in which I wish I had one. I won't be running 3 as I think that is too many. The other thing I have noticed people saying is that they find themselves looking for an early black source and not finding one. For me personally I have never had that problem and think the manabase is fine right now. I however agree with arianrhod about wolf run...I might turn wolf run into another mana source (probably basic land of some sort) just because I am finding it lack luster at the moment.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Dualcaster Mage
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primeval Titan

4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Scapeshift
2 Thoughtseize

2 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Bolt

3 Pernicious Deed

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Ground
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run

SB:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Slaughter Games
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm
1 Heat Shimmer

So, here's where I'm at for the moment. No testing has been done on this yet, obviously -- but it's all theorycrafted out.

1 Sakura-Tribe, 1 Wood Elves -- had to make space somewhere, and they were the unfortunate guilty parties. They would be pretty near the top of my list of things to put back in, as they were not cut for power level considerations.

1 Eternal Witness. I've come to the conclusion that I play to my Witness too much for it not to be in the list. Feel free to cut this if you want, this is a playstyle choice on my way. I play to my Yawg Will in vintage a lot, and it's really no different here.

1 Thrun, 1 Obstinate, 1 Primeval. These are all of the bombs that remain. I'll go into why after I go over the specifics of the list. Each of these bombs are the best at what they do. Thrun is the most resilient threat Jund has access to (a fact which I HATE, but we make do with what we can). Obstinate is the best lifegain creature at the moment -- you lose a point of life but gain an un-boltable body and a lesser mana cost in exchange. Primeval is just the quickest at ending the game, period. He wins games that no other card can, and generally represents the quickest endgame whereas Thrun is 'slow and steady.'

4 Wish -- as important of a card as ever.

3 Therapy + 2 Thoughtseize. I saw this in a couple of EU lists recently, and was thinking about it. Innocent Blood hasn't actually pulled its weight in the sideboard for like a year and a half for me, so being able to replace it with Therapy and thus open a sideboard slot seemed pretty badass. I also like that this gives me a little more maindeck discard to mess with Stoneforge Mystic, and also help break up any combo decks I happen to run into. Worst case, they're an easy sideboard out, which was something I realized was a problem on Saturday -- I had nothing good to sideboard out vs Delver.

3 Green Sun's. This was a painful one, but it made sense with the exodus of most of the midrange creatures from the deck. GSZ also isn't as good as it once was with the re-emergence of Spell Pierce in the meta.

2 Scapeshifts. Despite the shift (pun intended) of the deck's philosophy with the advent of Dualcaster, I still think that 2 Scapes is the correct number.

2 Decay + 2 Lightning Bolt. I'm super tired of getting cheesed by turn 1 Delvers. This gives me a whopping 8 ways to kill a Delver postboard, half of them on t1 and half of them uncounterable on t2. Bolt is a very efficient card, and worst case it can go at the head to lower the valakut count needed. Only running 2 feels kind of weird, but I don't know where I would open space for the other 2 Bolts.

3 Deeds, 3 Tops -- industry standard. Nothing to see here.

-1 Verdant Catacombs, +1 Bayou -- just a slight tweak to help out with the black source problem. There's more Stifle in the metagame now, so I'm not shaken up by having to cut to 3 fetches. Also, it means I don't have to play an English foil Catacombs and can just run both German foils instead =D

Sideboard:

-1 Thoughtseize, +1 Boseiju
-2 Slaughter Games, +2 Kitchen Finks

I'm worried about Miracles and Burn with this list due to the changes made. Boseiju is probably the single best card we can play vs Miracles, and Finks is an efficient beater vs Miracles that is pretty damn good vs UR Delver and Burn. Slaughter Games isn't as good vs Miracles as it used to be since they've diversified their win conditions a bit more now, and I'm actively worsening my combo matchup to improve my Miracles and Delver matchups. For the GP, I want to be able to beat Delver (all varieties), Miracles, and Stoneblade. Outside of that, I'm less concerned. The maindeck Thoughtseizes should shore up combo a little for the hit I take cutting the other two Games.

Deluge is back with the re-emergence of TNN in the midrange Stoneblade shells (now UWR instead of Esper).

Heat Shimmer swaps in for Twinflame since the deck's personal creature count is lower and you might need to start the combo engine on an opponent's creature instead now.

----------------

Philosophy time:

Scapewish started out originally as a midrange control deck with a combo finish. With the printing of Dualcaster Mage, however, the deck has the ability to metamorphose into something better: a combo-control deck. Allow me to explain.

Dualcaster Mage allows us to gain actual card advantage spells, by copying our opponents'. This comes at a cost, however: 3 mana reserved on our opponents' turns. Vs blue opponents at the very least, we always want to leave 1rr open to be able to take advantage of whatever they are doing. That is at strong odds with the more tap-out, midrange oriented nature of the deck. Many times on Saturday I would Zenith for something or tap mana for a monster and then have a DCM rotting in my hand without the mana to cast it while my opponent resolved a Cruise, Brainstorm, etc that I would have liked to have copied.

Furthermore, the rapid clock brought about by the URx decks almost necessitates the presence of some spot removal, especially considering that the more instant-speed interaction we can put in the deck, the better DCM gets since it offers us additional options for things to do with our mana on our opponents' turns. This is another reason why Top is better than Sylvan Library in Scapewish -- we want the ability to Top endstep if our opponent does not cast Cruise, for example.

There's a lot that is unclear at the moment -- not the least of which being if I just haven't pushed this far enough. Maybe Zenith just isn't good enough anymore, period, and I should just up to a set of Sakuras + a set of Veterans and then a couple of bombs, opening a few slots for more removal and interaction.

Thoughts are most welcome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Alright, gonna first post some thoughts on Scape after Mythic and then I'll get to Maharis's deck and other responses.

For reference, my list:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
3 Dualcaster Mage
2 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library

2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Kessig Wolf Run

SB:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm
1 Twinflame

----------

Rd 1: Eli with Grixis Pyromancer

Much more of a control build, with Counterspell and no Delvers that I saw.

Game one I have a pretty strong draw with a good mix of everything. He Cruises a couple of times, but none of the cards that he's drawing actually protect him from the Scapeshift + Dualcaster in my hand. He's forced to Force Thragtusks and Burning Wishes along the way, which clears the way for a protected Shift.

Game two he has quick pyromancer and I just kind of sit around and durdle a bit. I tried to Pyroclasm him with DCM backup -- he Snap-Counterspells the Pyroclasm, I Dualcaster, and he Forces the Dualcaster. I die pretty quickly after that.

Game three I have a good scapeshift hand -- ramp into shift + dcm + witness. He makes some pressure with a Pyromancer, and while I get to 7 lands, I can't Scapeshift that turn (I don't remember why off the top). His Cruise is 3/3 the cards he needs, going from basically empty to a hand of Force+blue+Therapy. He Therapies my Scapeshift and my Eternal Witness, and passes. I try to sweep him, but he has the Force (drawn off of the above god-Cruise). DCM gets countered somewhere along the way - I think I wanted a Brainstorm or to send a Lightning Bolt back at his Pyromancer or something. Fuzzy memory is fuzzy.

tl;dr: very close match, he had to hit basically a perfect Cruise to win.

Rd 2: Grixis 8rack?

This was a brew....seemed decent, though. Had some adorableness like Liliana's Carass + Dack Fayden.

G1 I tore his hand apart, Deeded away both of his Racks, and then stabilized Huntmaster vs Liliana, eventually shifting for the win.

G2 was basically a repeat of g1, although I Twinflamed my Wood Elves to get to 7 lands to kill him.

Rd 3: Grixis Delver

G1 t1 Delver->2 wastes+2 stifles+daze+FoW. Rip.

G2 I get punched by a t1 Delver for 18 before finally stabilizing it and killing the fucking thing. He draws a Bolt the next turn.

Note: this match I got to Dualcaster a Ponder. While not ideal (I'd Therapied him for Cruise and bricked, so I decided not to hold it for forever), even something as simple as a Ponder felt disgusting. Jund should not have blue card draw.

Rd 4: UWR Delver

He mulls to 6 on the play and unleashes this sequence on me:

Delver -> (blind flip), Ponder, Spell Pierce -> SFM + FoW [pitching Cruise!!) + Waste -> Batterskull + Waste -> Bolt Bolt

KAY.

G2 I lead with Therapy on Brainstorm and whiff. He has Delver, SFM, some lands, a Bolt I think?

He runs out his Delver + SFM, which I Pyroclasm away. He plays another Delver and SFM. I sigh, but play a Deed and crack it to nuke his new board. He plays a 3rd SFM. I E.Wit back my Deed and Deed away his SFM + Jitte, leaving him with exactly Batterskull + Sword of Fire/Ice in hand. I then flashback Therapy on the Batterskull, saccing the Witness. He topdecks a True-Name. He punches me for a few turns. I get up to 9 lands, and play a Deed with DCM backup and the ability to Deed for 3 to get rid of his TNN + Sword. He taps 5 lands to Force Deed, I flash in DCM, he Forces pitching blue to counter the DCM.

I fucking hate magic.

Like, what makes that round so tilting is that I had perfect information on him the entire game from the t1 Therapy + later flashback. I KNEW how well he was drawing the entire game.

So, 1-3 and an angry drop. I can safely chalk most of that up to variance -- Eli's perfect Cruise, grixis Delver having "delver hands," the bullshit in round 4. It still doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the GP, but I'm pretty set on my course at this point. I just have to hope for better draws / for my opponents to not be actual deities. I don't understand how any fucking deck can beat Delver when it gets hands like that.

The take aways:

Scapewish is not a Sylvan Library version. Sylvan is fine in the other builds, but my initial instinct was correct and Top is just too important in this particular build. Being able to look on-demand with all of the shuffles is critical.

Wolf Run kind of screwed me again by not being a black source. I may cut it for a 3rd Bayou and just rock Thrun wolfrunless. As much as I always want to make Thrunrun work (because I know how good it is), I ALWAYS get punished by my manabase for doing so. I must be the unluckiest person in the world, because I know most of you + most of my friends don't have this problem, but here I sit.

Dualcaster is jesus's tit from which flows the nectar of life. Seriously. It didn't snag anything savage on the day, but even just getting low-middling things // acting as a counterspell to protect important plays, it was ridiculous. I will say this, though: the card is HARD to play. I'm 100% sure that I was not playing it even close to correctly, and if I actually knew what I was doing with it, I may have been able to squeeze out a game or two that I instead lost. Knowing when to hold it up vs when to tap out for threats is very challenging, as is knowing what to try copy, when.

Obstinate Baloth being a 4/4 and not just dying to Bolt is massive.

I need creatures that are also removal spells. I'm seriously thinking about trying to find room for some Flametongue Kavus or some similar shit. Obviously I'd rather run something that's GSZable, but sadly we don't really get those options.

Finding space in the deck is pretty miserable at this point, but I need some removal main, I think. I'm sick of Delver always having the t1 delver and it always blind-flipping on turn 2. I've put up with this shit since Innistrad and I'm beyond tired of it. Like if they didn't have it even 50% of the time, then fine, but it's every goddamn game =/

I think that Dualcaster's advent makes the deck much more "Scapeshifty" and less "midrange with combo endgame." This is why I want to find some creatures that are also removal spells, because I want to keep that midrange/combo hybrid feel...but it may be that the deck is just better if I cut all the midrange elements and make it heavy combo with maybe 1-2 creature bombs. I can't actually rave about Dualcaster enough, and the card only resolved like twice on the day.

I'm going to do some heavy theorizing today and try to come up with a solution by the end of the day.

---

Bummer on the bad luck man but that is Delver. They draw a billion cards and have it all all the time. I also had similarly bad luck at FNM going 1-2 drop BUT I am still very happy with the deck. I can chalk up most of my losses to bad luck and Duelcaster mage being bad. To start the event I was SUPER stoked to run 2 in my main because the card just seemed sick. Copy your cruise, combo you with twinflame, counter your force it does it all. What I found from the event and some testing after is that the card is a trap. It is just not what the deck really wants to be doing.

What I really like about Scapewish is that it plays so well on low resources. All you need is land and a drawstep to blow open a game. While delver is drawing bolts/dazes/delvers I am drawing thragtusks and hunmasters and... oops! Your dead to Scapeshift! Duelcaster mage does not help the game plan of running better cards because it itself needs other cards. The card has a million dream scenarios but in actually gameplay it falls short of all of them.

Now onto FNM:

Round 1 - Joe on BUG Delver
G1: Joe is a buddy of mine so I sit down knowing what I am in for. 4 stifle main, 4 wastes main. Yikes. Wastes are tolerable but stifles are just miserable to play against. I keep a reasonable hand with a top, a therapy, 2 wishes, huntmaster, swamp and catacombs. Knowing that he plays waste and stifle I fetch turn 1 for a forest and play top. I then proceed to draw 2 more wishes and 0 red sources as he blind flips his delver off a cruise and beats me down. I try to get red off explorer therapy but he stifles the trigger and I die.

G2. I keep an okay hand with lands, 2 explorers, tusk and a deed. He of course blind flips delver off cruise. We trade blows for a few turns, I slam a deed, it resolves. I pop it for 1 and he double stifles my triggers, untaps, cruises and slams deathrite/goyf. He then forces my tusk and I am dead.

0-1

Round 2 - Dude on Burn
G1: He burns me. I dont know what hes on, keep a great hand with explorer and therapy and then die to a flurry of bolts. I never got past land 6 and had 2 duelcasters and 2 scapeshifts in hand (If they had been wood elves I would have won that game very easy).

G2: I mull to 4 and almost win very easy. Hand was Bayou Catacombs vet huntmaster. He guides turn one and proceeds to draw me 3 lands. He attacks into explorer, I play 2 huntmasters which he burns away. I then never see another spell and end the game with 14 lands on the field and 1 in my hand. I had 6 draws in a row with
13 outs and hit 0 of them

0-2

Round 3 - Chris on D&T
I got paired up so I conceded to him but we played for fun anyway
G1: Showed the true power of the deck. I ramped us both with Vet/Therapy but my stuff was just much better. Wished for Scape and the kill (Won with Duelcaster in hand).

G2: Was insane. We played a normal game up until turn 6 where he Armageddon with a Batterskull out versus my huntmaster + Token. We trade off and play basically a completely new game. I draw more lands than him, Decay his vial keeping him off development. On turn 3 of time we eventually get to a state where he has a brimaz and is at 8 with 4 cards in hand. I deed for 3, he responds with karakas. I hit him for 5 with tusk, I therapy away all his creatures leaving him with jitte in hand. If he draws a creature I lose, if he doesn't, I win. He does not draw a creature. I kill him with a beast on turn 5 of time. Game was SICK!

1-2

After this I got really sick, went home, and died till today. I am hoping to get some more testing in later this week for GP Jersey. One card I am super interested in is Courser of Kruphix. I know people have talked about it being not great but it seems great against a field of Burn, control decks and UR delver. For reference here is the list I will be testing:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

SB:
2 Pyroblast
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Forked Bolt
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm

Hey Arianrhod, thanks for your suggestions. I want to just make my quick case for 2 Finks and 2 Knight to see what you think:

I am basically building this deck to prey on burn and URx Delver decks. It seems like they are everywhere and I fully expect that they will combine to be somewhere north of 30% of the field at the GP. Maybe everyone is thinking that and we all get thrown a curveball but even just looking at your last two posts of tournament results I see 4 out of 6 matches where you faced some iteration of that deck (and a fifth time against Eli where he was playing some sort of Cruise/Bolt deck). And personally, over the past 19 matches I've played, I have faced Burn or URx delver 8 times.

So it's obvious why Finks is a card that deck does not want to see. Gains you 4 life, blocks on the ground twice. But why Knight? Well, it took me a while to figure it out. I had been testing her just to get random wins off S&T and Reanimator decks. But she was lacking in the key matchup, which was UR delver. So I made two changes: The first was to add Sylvan Safekeeper. Olle helps use my extra lands to dodge removal, and build up Knight. I definitely locked out a burn player by doing that since after he pointed everything at my dome, he couldn't swing out without me just cracking back for lethal. Then I realized that if I could gain life off of Knight it would be sick. That's when I came up with Vault. Now, between its raw size and ability to turn into a lifelinking beast Knight creates a lot of matchup problems for Bolt-based decks, which are everywhere.

Getting to your other suggestions: What do you think of cutting one Vet and one DRS each for 2 Stoneforge? Stoneforge is sort of like a ramp spell if she gets Batterskull and sticks and gives me a little bit of a curve to throw if I want. Or is STE just better as a 2?

I will definitely grab a Sage over Pridemage and I think I will cut the extra library for a deed. Will also try to find room for Sigarda and/or Baneslayer. I do love Sun Titan but the speed of the burn decks makes me not want to have a 6-drop.

You really think Garruk is good vs. Miracles? I felt the problem was that he didn't make flyers to defend himself against Clique. At least Sorin only goes to 1 loyalty. Elspeth is probably best but WW skeeves me out a bit. I honestly like new Sorin or dare I say Ob Nixilis the best since they make flyers. IMO the issue with Miracles is Entreat and Liliana can take them off white mana. But maybe I'm wrong.

A matchup that terrifies me is this new trend toward blade decks with tons of basics, like the one that won SCG Columbus this weekend. Ramping them into jace feels terrible. How should we combat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maharis

Hey Arianrhod, thanks for your suggestions. I want to just make my quick case for 2 Finks and 2 Knight to see what you think:

I am basically building this deck to prey on burn and URx Delver decks. It seems like they are everywhere and I fully expect that they will combine to be somewhere north of 30% of the field at the GP. Maybe everyone is thinking that and we all get thrown a curveball but even just looking at your last two posts of tournament results I see 4 out of 6 matches where you faced some iteration of that deck (and a fifth time against Eli where he was playing some sort of Cruise/Bolt deck). And personally, over the past 19 matches I've played, I have faced Burn or URx delver 8 times.

So it's obvious why Finks is a card that deck does not want to see. Gains you 4 life, blocks on the ground twice. But why Knight? Well, it took me a while to figure it out. I had been testing her just to get random wins off S&T and Reanimator decks. But she was lacking in the key matchup, which was UR delver. So I made two changes: The first was to add Sylvan Safekeeper. Olle helps use my extra lands to dodge removal, and build up Knight. I definitely locked out a burn player by doing that since after he pointed everything at my dome, he couldn't swing out without me just cracking back for lethal. Then I realized that if I could gain life off of Knight it would be sick. That's when I came up with Vault. Now, between its raw size and ability to turn into a lifelinking beast Knight creates a lot of matchup problems for Bolt-based decks, which are everywhere.

Getting to your other suggestions: What do you think of cutting one Vet and one DRS each for 2 Stoneforge? Stoneforge is sort of like a ramp spell if she gets Batterskull and sticks and gives me a little bit of a curve to throw if I want. Or is STE just better as a 2?

I will definitely grab a Sage over Pridemage and I think I will cut the extra library for a deed. Will also try to find room for Sigarda and/or Baneslayer. I do love Sun Titan but the speed of the burn decks makes me not want to have a 6-drop.

You really think Garruk is good vs. Miracles? I felt the problem was that he didn't make flyers to defend himself against Clique. At least Sorin only goes to 1 loyalty. Elspeth is probably best but WW skeeves me out a bit. I honestly like new Sorin or dare I say Ob Nixilis the best since they make flyers. IMO the issue with Miracles is Entreat and Liliana can take them off white mana. But maybe I'm wrong.

A matchup that terrifies me is this new trend toward blade decks with tons of basics, like the one that won SCG Columbus this weekend. Ramping them into jace feels terrible. How should we combat?

---

These new blade decks are not that scary imo. They ramp and do cool things, but they are too slow to be able to pressure us with the likes of Bolts. A Jace on their side of the table should not be living very long, we have tramplers and ways of killing things that stop us from getting through. Also they have maindeck pyroblast which is dead vs us, which is a nice bonus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maharis

Will also try to find room for Sigarda and/or Baneslayer. I do love Sun Titan but the speed of the burn decks makes me not want to have a 6-drop.

You really think Garruk is good vs. Miracles? I felt the problem was that he didn't make flyers to defend himself against Clique. At least Sorin only goes to 1 loyalty. Elspeth is probably best but WW skeeves me out a bit. I honestly like new Sorin or dare I say Ob Nixilis the best since they make flyers. IMO the issue with Miracles is Entreat and Liliana can take them off white mana. But maybe I'm wrong.

A matchup that terrifies me is this new trend toward blade decks with tons of basics, like the one that won SCG Columbus this weekend. Ramping them into jace feels terrible. How should we combat?

---

Gbw Fit will be able to live without a six drop, because you have access to various powerfull five drops.

Most other Nic Fit Shells should stay with (at least) one six drop, because it fits better in a game plan:
-BUG Pod: Grave Titan for maximum Power and "cheap" to "cast" with Pod and synergies with Recurring Nightmare
-BUG Control: Consecrated Sphinx (hell powerfull); also usefull: Frost Titan or Deadeye Navigator
-Scapeshift: Primeval Titan, powerfull on its own and can grab the right lands for serious damage with Valakut or Kessig
-Punishing Fit: Primeval Titan (see above), grabs Towers or Grove or Kessig, sometimes you also see Broodmate Dragon

Sure white can also use 3 Titans, but with Sigarda, Baneslayer, Archangel of Thune and maybe some Stoneforge-Stuff for Manasink you have more than enough Options to kill your opponent with Powerfull Creatures.

White itselfs tends to lower the curve anyway, some use Stoneforge as an early threat, and with Rhino as a new 4 drop Star it makes sense to curve out at 5, which also tends to a faster game plan to measure with the aggressiv UR Delver Meta.

@Garruk Relentless: As i already mentioned, i like him in every Nic Fit Shell because he is very versatile and easy to cast. Against Miracle they need to answer him on a different way, because Swords or Terminus aren't good vs him (which is the fact i like in the matchup). Sure they can play EoT Clique or just use Council's Judgment, but Clique can also be answered with Removal and Judgment will kill any walker (or Thrun etc.) so what?

@Blade Decks with Basics: Matchup is still "fairer" compared to the real "Basic-Land-Enemy" (Miracle), Nic Fit can solve any "Problems" caused by Blade Decks. The scariest thing will be TNN+Batterskull and you always have the possibility to answer with Deed (or MPulse, or KGrip) and the ability to "go over the top" with Titans, Pod, Scape etc.

----------
@Ralf: Nice Brew! :wink:

----------
@all: I hope we see some good performance from various Nic Fit Decks at GP NY, because i feel this decks can be tuned to conquer the meta to some degree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Thoughts are most welcome.

---

Hello Kevin,

1) You will like the 1-of therapy in the side as I did a lot last year. In a lot of match this was my n°1 target with the first wish and it is that backbreaking.

2) I still don't like your mana base as it is right now. I know there is a major constraint due to the number of mountain we should be playing but this doesn't justify why you don't put a couple of black sources to replace some green ones.

In your last iteration of the deck, I'm counting:
-15 green sources
-10 black sources
-14 red sources

=HYPGEOMDIST(0,7,10,60) => 25.86 % to not have a black source in your opening.
=HYPGEOMDIST(0,7,14,60) => 13.86 % " " " "

This is almost twice the odds of not having a black source in your opening hand and, yet, you are increasing the discard count in your main deck going from 4 to 5.

My true concern, here, is the tempo loss Scape could suffer from not being able to play its spell ASAP. If I play bolt, TS, cabal therapy, veteran, I want to be able to play them no later than T1 if I need to; meaning that I need the best chances to have access to the correct colored source by T1.
This also means we might have to "rebalance" our pool of cards in terms of color. This was the aim of my new brew, kind of a good stuff Scapeshift version.

Ramping, CA, Card selection:
4 Veteran
4 Dark Confidant
3 Sensei

Disruption, spot removal
4 CT
3 TS
4 AD

Beater/Stabilization
1-3 Tarmo
1-2 Scooze
0-X Dualcaster
1-2 Prophetic (not sure about this guy, but I want something broken @ 3 CMC)
1-2 to be determined @ 4 CMC

Glue to the deck
2 GSZ
4 BW

The more I play Scape, the more I want:
- disruption and ramp in the early turn in any form (the meta is dismissing a lot the discard power, right now, and it is a big big mistake, IMHO)
- a bigger beast than my opponent in the midgame to go over the top or to stabilize (tank, gain life).
- a combo finish in the late game if I didn't manage to take the leadership during the midgame

With the format being more red/blue than ever, I'm not sure Scape should be a combo-control deck rather a control-combo deck.

3) My belief is that we don't have enough testing behind us to make any valuable statement about dualcaster in the deck. Sure, he is slow, but he could also be what we were lacking against miracle for example. Copying what could be a lethal entreat is a big deal. Not to mention all the relevant use cases you've already pointed out.

4) Lurking demons will soon be unleashed with such a meta. They are preparing their devil hordes. Reanimator, S&T and other broken combo decks will slice and dice all the midrange strategies that are recently given birth to fight back UR domination. Mark my words.

Happy to discuss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surfkatt

Bummer on the bad luck man but that is Delver. They draw a billion cards and have it all all the time. I also had similarly bad luck at FNM going 1-2 drop BUT I am still very happy with the deck. I can chalk up most of my losses to bad luck and Duelcaster mage being bad. To start the event I was SUPER stoked to run 2 in my main because the card just seemed sick. Copy your cruise, combo you with twinflame, counter your force it does it all. What I found from the event and some testing after is that the card is a trap. It is just not what the deck really wants to be doing.

What I really like about Scapewish is that it plays so well on low resources. All you need is land and a drawstep to blow open a game. While delver is drawing bolts/dazes/delvers I am drawing thragtusks and hunmasters and... oops! Your dead to Scapeshift! Duelcaster mage does not help the game plan of running better cards because it itself needs other cards. The card has a million dream scenarios but in actually gameplay it falls short of all of them.

Now onto FNM:

Round 1 - Joe on BUG Delver
G1: Joe is a buddy of mine so I sit down knowing what I am in for. 4 stifle main, 4 wastes main. Yikes. Wastes are tolerable but stifles are just miserable to play against. I keep a reasonable hand with a top, a therapy, 2 wishes, huntmaster, swamp and catacombs. Knowing that he plays waste and stifle I fetch turn 1 for a forest and play top. I then proceed to draw 2 more wishes and 0 red sources as he blind flips his delver off a cruise and beats me down. I try to get red off explorer therapy but he stifles the trigger and I die.

G2. I keep an okay hand with lands, 2 explorers, tusk and a deed. He of course blind flips delver off cruise. We trade blows for a few turns, I slam a deed, it resolves. I pop it for 1 and he double stifles my triggers, untaps, cruises and slams deathrite/goyf. He then forces my tusk and I am dead.

0-1

Round 2 - Dude on Burn
G1: He burns me. I dont know what hes on, keep a great hand with explorer and therapy and then die to a flurry of bolts. I never got past land 6 and had 2 duelcasters and 2 scapeshifts in hand (If they had been wood elves I would have won that game very easy).

G2: I mull to 4 and almost win very easy. Hand was Bayou Catacombs vet huntmaster. He guides turn one and proceeds to draw me 3 lands. He attacks into explorer, I play 2 huntmasters which he burns away. I then never see another spell and end the game with 14 lands on the field and 1 in my hand. I had 6 draws in a row with
13 outs and hit 0 of them

0-2

Round 3 - Chris on D&T
I got paired up so I conceded to him but we played for fun anyway
G1: Showed the true power of the deck. I ramped us both with Vet/Therapy but my stuff was just much better. Wished for Scape and the kill (Won with Duelcaster in hand).

G2: Was insane. We played a normal game up until turn 6 where he Armageddon with a Batterskull out versus my huntmaster + Token. We trade off and play basically a completely new game. I draw more lands than him, Decay his vial keeping him off development. On turn 3 of time we eventually get to a state where he has a brimaz and is at 8 with 4 cards in hand. I deed for 3, he responds with karakas. I hit him for 5 with tusk, I therapy away all his creatures leaving him with jitte in hand. If he draws a creature I lose, if he doesn't, I win. He does not draw a creature. I kill him with a beast on turn 5 of time. Game was SICK!

1-2

After this I got really sick, went home, and died till today. I am hoping to get some more testing in later this week for GP Jersey. One card I am super interested in is Courser of Kruphix. I know people have talked about it being not great but it seems great against a field of Burn, control decks and UR delver. For reference here is the list I will be testing:

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Scapeshift

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

3 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Taiga
2 Stomping Grounds
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

SB:
2 Pyroblast
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Forked Bolt
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Massacre
1 Scapeshift
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pyroclasm

---

As time progresses, I become significantly less okay with the concept of playing to the top of your deck. Obviously it's the correct thing to do at times, play to your outs, etc -- but I mean that I dislike having to rely on the top of my deck to win the game at all stages of the game.

That all being said, I do think that there is still merit in the more traditional midrange, then combo version of Scapewish. I just think that the shifted, DCM-fueled combo/control Scapewish is probably a bit better right now because of infinite Delvers.

I will also note that once the GP is over with, I'm probably going to put some work in on the RUG Scapewish deck that was theorized some time ago. For now, though, that's too much of an unknown factor...but I think that it could be hilariously strong with the addition of Dualcaster.

You say that Dualcaster is a trap -- and I think that in a way, you're right. It's a trap from the perspective of traditional, midrange Scapewish. You never want to be holding the DCM up because you want to be tapping out for midrange things, which means that the DCM never does anything. We're approaching it from two different directions: you're perfectly content with how it's playing right now, ergo, DCM is bad. I'm much less content but am willing to fundamentally change the deck, ergo, DCM is great.

Both approaches have merit, I think -- it's just where on the scale you want to fall.

Of note, for your list: if you're going to sideboard Forked Bolt, just sideboard two extra Pyroclasms to board in instead. You'll be much happier, I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maharis

Hey Arianrhod, thanks for your suggestions. I want to just make my quick case for 2 Finks and 2 Knight to see what you think:

I am basically building this deck to prey on burn and URx Delver decks. It seems like they are everywhere and I fully expect that they will combine to be somewhere north of 30% of the field at the GP. Maybe everyone is thinking that and we all get thrown a curveball but even just looking at your last two posts of tournament results I see 4 out of 6 matches where you faced some iteration of that deck (and a fifth time against Eli where he was playing some sort of Cruise/Bolt deck). And personally, over the past 19 matches I've played, I have faced Burn or URx delver 8 times.

So it's obvious why Finks is a card that deck does not want to see. Gains you 4 life, blocks on the ground twice. But why Knight? Well, it took me a while to figure it out. I had been testing her just to get random wins off S&T and Reanimator decks. But she was lacking in the key matchup, which was UR delver. So I made two changes: The first was to add Sylvan Safekeeper. Olle helps use my extra lands to dodge removal, and build up Knight. I definitely locked out a burn player by doing that since after he pointed everything at my dome, he couldn't swing out without me just cracking back for lethal. Then I realized that if I could gain life off of Knight it would be sick. That's when I came up with Vault. Now, between its raw size and ability to turn into a lifelinking beast Knight creates a lot of matchup problems for Bolt-based decks, which are everywhere.

Getting to your other suggestions: What do you think of cutting one Vet and one DRS each for 2 Stoneforge? Stoneforge is sort of like a ramp spell if she gets Batterskull and sticks and gives me a little bit of a curve to throw if I want. Or is STE just better as a 2?

I will definitely grab a Sage over Pridemage and I think I will cut the extra library for a deed. Will also try to find room for Sigarda and/or Baneslayer. I do love Sun Titan but the speed of the burn decks makes me not want to have a 6-drop.

You really think Garruk is good vs. Miracles? I felt the problem was that he didn't make flyers to defend himself against Clique. At least Sorin only goes to 1 loyalty. Elspeth is probably best but WW skeeves me out a bit. I honestly like new Sorin or dare I say Ob Nixilis the best since they make flyers. IMO the issue with Miracles is Entreat and Liliana can take them off white mana. But maybe I'm wrong.

A matchup that terrifies me is this new trend toward blade decks with tons of basics, like the one that won SCG Columbus this weekend. Ramping them into jace feels terrible. How should we combat?

---

I mean, I'm sideboarding Finks in my neo-Scapewish. I fully recognize that the card is good -- but my thought is that at the point at which you have 8 ramp sources, you can run something even better in Baneslayer...and at that point it's just making room for her. Sideboarding the Finks may be correct, or if you can find room to keep them, then sure....why not.

I still can't really agree with KotR. Okay, you get free wins some % of the time off of her vs Reanimator and Sneak. Thumbs up. The problem is, both of those decks are pretty bad right now. I will say that I do think that there is a KotR version lurking somewhere -- but you'd have to push it hard. Run StPs to answer Deathrites to stop them from shrinking your KotR into oblivion, run Depths/Stage, Crop Rotation, maybe Titania and a couple of Wastelands even. I dunno.

Keep in mind that not all versions of Miracles run Clique, and those that do, only run 2-ish copies usually (some 1, some 3). Clique's the only real threat that Garruk Relentless has vs Miracles. Their only other out is to Council's Judgment him, which is fine, because that clears the way for Thrun/Sigarda/Batterskull/Sylvan Library/X other huge problem for them.

You beat the Stoneblade decks the same way we always beat the Stoneblade decks -- Carpets, disruption on their equipment, and going over the top somehow. At the peak of Stonebladedom a year or two ago, I would regularly jam 2-3 walkers + ~2 Tsunamis alongside my typically top-end-heavy list, and I never had any trouble. Sun Titan + Deed is lights out for them, as is basically any Nightmare loop. Sigarda is basically unanswerable unless they board in Verdicts, but even then they're taking their board state with her and you can bring her back later. Baneslayer races anything short of TNN+Skull. Etc. It's really not that bad...just knowing how to play the matchup and tuning your list for it a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ralf

Hello Kevin,

1) You will like the 1-of therapy in the side as I did a lot last year. In a lot of match this was my n°1 target with the first wish and it is that backbreaking.

2) I still don't like your mana base as it is right now. I know there is a major constraint due to the number of mountain we should be playing but this doesn't justify why you don't put a couple of black sources to replace some green ones.

In your last iteration of the deck, I'm counting:
-15 green sources
-10 black sources
-14 red sources

=HYPGEOMDIST(0,7,10,60) => 25.86 % to not have a black source in your opening.
=HYPGEOMDIST(0,7,14,60) => 13.86 % " " " "

This is almost twice the odds of not having a black source in your opening hand and, yet, you are increasing the discard count in your main deck going from 4 to 5.

My true concern, here, is the tempo loss Scape could suffer from not being able to play its spell ASAP. If I play bolt, TS, cabal therapy, veteran, I want to be able to play them no later than T1 if I need to; meaning that I need the best chances to have access to the correct colored source by T1.
This also means we might have to "rebalance" our pool of cards in terms of color. This was the aim of my new brew, kind of a good stuff Scapeshift version.

Ramping, CA, Card selection:
4 Veteran
4 Dark Confidant
3 Sensei

Disruption, spot removal
4 CT
3 TS
4 AD

Beater/Stabilization
1-3 Tarmo
1-2 Scooze
0-X Dualcaster
1-2 Prophetic (not sure about this guy, but I want something broken @ 3 CMC)
1-2 to be determined @ 4 CMC

Glue to the deck
2 GSZ
4 BW

The more I play Scape, the more I want:
- disruption and ramp in the early turn in any form (the meta is dismissing a lot the discard power, right now, and it is a big big mistake, IMHO)
- a bigger beast than my opponent in the midgame to go over the top or to stabilize (tank, gain life).
- a combo finish in the late game if I didn't manage to take the leadership during the midgame

With the format being more red/blue than ever, I'm not sure Scape should be a combo-control deck rather a control-combo deck.

3) My belief is that we don't have enough testing behind us to make any valuable statement about dualcaster in the deck. Sure, he is slow, but he could also be what we were lacking against miracle for example. Copying what could be a lethal entreat is a big deal. Not to mention all the relevant use cases you've already pointed out.

4) Lurking demons will soon be unleashed with such a meta. They are preparing their devil hordes. Reanimator, S&T and other broken combo decks will slice and dice all the midrange strategies that are recently given birth to fight back UR domination. Mark my words.

Happy to discuss.

---

Playing Bob into this metagame seems like a terrible idea. Now, if the Stoneblade decks take over, you could persuade me. But right now we're still living in Delver's world, and that seems like a bad call for the moment.

4 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
4 Badlands
4 Bayou
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

This is a manabase I'm considering. The problem, honestly, is that I don't have a 4th Badlands and am not thrilled with the idea of trying to find one. It makes my miracles matchup worse since I'm cutting Wolf Run, but it probably makes my everything else matchup better because more likely to cast spells on time.

I'm very aware of the black mana problem...it's just challenging to effectively solve. This manabase has:

16 red sources (11 mountains still, which is a comfortable number that I would like to keep) [2 of these are valakuts]
15 green sources
12 black sources

It's a bit better, but it's still not great, for sure. Maybe cutting 1 Forest for 1 Swamp is correct, since we'd be going up to 4 Bayous and Wood Elves would still have plenty to do?

Trying to keep 11 Mountains (+2 valakuts) in your primarily G/B deck is hard -- especially when you also need at least 6 basics =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

This is a manabase I'm considering. The problem, honestly, is that I don't have a 4th Badlands and am not thrilled with the idea of trying to find one. It makes my miracles matchup worse since I'm cutting Wolf Run, but it probably makes my everything else matchup better because more likely to cast spells on time.

I'm very aware of the black mana problem...it's just challenging to effectively solve. This manabase has:

16 red sources (11 mountains still, which is a comfortable number that I would like to keep) [2 of these are valakuts]
15 green sources
12 black sources

It's a bit better, but it's still not great, for sure. Maybe cutting 1 Forest for 1 Swamp is correct, since we'd be going up to 4 Bayous and Wood Elves would still have plenty to do?

Trying to keep 11 Mountains (+2 valakuts) in your primarily G/B deck is hard -- especially when you also need at least 6 basics =/

---

Yes, 12 will always be better than 10 ! You'll have to run some test I guess.

I'm not advocating for Bob, but I wanted to test them as I believe they are not that detrimental in a Nic Fit shell:
- I lowered the mana curve to run them
- They can be used for chump blocking or as a flashbacked cabal therapy food at any stage of the game
- They might be poor against Burn but average to very good against all other matchups (including UR Delver)
- They are even more perfect in a heavy land configuration (It is no suprise they are used for years by lands decks)
- We have ways to gain life or mitigate the life loss (sensei)
- Any T1+discard followed by T2+Bob makes me feel I'm playing a competitive legacy deck

Anyway, we could replace them with Sylvan library but I'm not there yet.

At last, cutting Kessig might have impacted your miracle MU, but the inclusion of DCM might has improved it by a fair margin; so fair trade ?

EDIT: I should also have mentioned that Bob revealing a BW makes me feel like I can play the nastiest sorcery spells of Magic at the smallest cost of 2 lifes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arianrhod

As time progresses, I become significantly less okay with the concept of playing to the top of your deck. Obviously it's the correct thing to do at times, play to your outs, etc -- but I mean that I dislike having to rely on the top of my deck to win the game at all stages of the game.

That all being said, I do think that there is still merit in the more traditional midrange, then combo version of Scapewish. I just think that the shifted, DCM-fueled combo/control Scapewish is probably a bit better right now because of infinite Delvers.

I will also note that once the GP is over with, I'm probably going to put some work in on the RUG Scapewish deck that was theorized some time ago. For now, though, that's too much of an unknown factor...but I think that it could be hilariously strong with the addition of Dualcaster.

You say that Dualcaster is a trap -- and I think that in a way, you're right. It's a trap from the perspective of traditional, midrange Scapewish. You never want to be holding the DCM up because you want to be tapping out for midrange things, which means that the DCM never does anything. We're approaching it from two different directions: you're perfectly content with how it's playing right now, ergo, DCM is bad. I'm much less content but am willing to fundamentally change the deck, ergo, DCM is great.

Both approaches have merit, I think -- it's just where on the scale you want to fall.

Of note, for your list: if you're going to sideboard Forked Bolt, just sideboard two extra Pyroclasms to board in instead. You'll be much happier, I think.



I mean, I'm sideboarding Finks in my neo-Scapewish. I fully recognize that the card is good -- but my thought is that at the point at which you have 8 ramp sources, you can run something even better in Baneslayer...and at that point it's just making room for her. Sideboarding the Finks may be correct, or if you can find room to keep them, then sure....why not.

I still can't really agree with KotR. Okay, you get free wins some % of the time off of her vs Reanimator and Sneak. Thumbs up. The problem is, both of those decks are pretty bad right now. I will say that I do think that there is a KotR version lurking somewhere -- but you'd have to push it hard. Run StPs to answer Deathrites to stop them from shrinking your KotR into oblivion, run Depths/Stage, Crop Rotation, maybe Titania and a couple of Wastelands even. I dunno.

Keep in mind that not all versions of Miracles run Clique, and those that do, only run 2-ish copies usually (some 1, some 3). Clique's the only real threat that Garruk Relentless has vs Miracles. Their only other out is to Council's Judgment him, which is fine, because that clears the way for Thrun/Sigarda/Batterskull/Sylvan Library/X other huge problem for them.

You beat the Stoneblade decks the same way we always beat the Stoneblade decks -- Carpets, disruption on their equipment, and going over the top somehow. At the peak of Stonebladedom a year or two ago, I would regularly jam 2-3 walkers + ~2 Tsunamis alongside my typically top-end-heavy list, and I never had any trouble. Sun Titan + Deed is lights out for them, as is basically any Nightmare loop. Sigarda is basically unanswerable unless they board in Verdicts, but even then they're taking their board state with her and you can bring her back later. Baneslayer races anything short of TNN+Skull. Etc. It's really not that bad...just knowing how to play the matchup and tuning your list for it a bit.



Playing Bob into this metagame seems like a terrible idea. Now, if the Stoneblade decks take over, you could persuade me. But right now we're still living in Delver's world, and that seems like a bad call for the moment.

4 Taiga
1 Stomping Ground
4 Badlands
4 Bayou
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

This is a manabase I'm considering. The problem, honestly, is that I don't have a 4th Badlands and am not thrilled with the idea of trying to find one. It makes my miracles matchup worse since I'm cutting Wolf Run, but it probably makes my everything else matchup better because more likely to cast spells on time.

I'm very aware of the black mana problem...it's just challenging to effectively solve. This manabase has:

16 red sources (11 mountains still, which is a comfortable number that I would like to keep) [2 of these are valakuts]
15 green sources
12 black sources

It's a bit better, but it's still not great, for sure. Maybe cutting 1 Forest for 1 Swamp is correct, since we'd be going up to 4 Bayous and Wood Elves would still have plenty to do?

Trying to keep 11 Mountains (+2 valakuts) in your primarily G/B deck is hard -- especially when you also need at least 6 basics =/

---

I whole hardheartedly agree that it a pure playstyle thing and how you want to build the deck. Personally I feel like the midrange version has a better U/R Delver and burn matchup which is why I am running it at the GP. After the GP however I have no idea what I will do. Recently I have been having some gripes with the Scapewish versions in general, there is just not enough room to customize. You need to run ramp dudes that get lands, wishes, deeds etc. Half the deck is essentially set in stone and the bit you can customize is limited by the lack of fetches and mandatory mountains. The deck is great how it is I just don't really know how much it can grow. I love me some Burning wishes in a non storm deck but Deathrite/Stoneforge/Rhino are calling me over to give them a shot...

On another note I wonder if there is another card that would make Burning wish playable in a Nic fit shell other than Scapeshift? I love Burning wish and the power/consistency it brings but I am not a huge fan of drawing valakut.