wasn't suggesting a dissynergy, its just that sfm is commonly not played and itd be a good replacement. But speaking of synergy, mindcensor has a ton with the taxing elements of this deck...Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
Printable View
wasn't suggesting a dissynergy, its just that sfm is commonly not played and itd be a good replacement. But speaking of synergy, mindcensor has a ton with the taxing elements of this deck...Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
My current build is without both Copters - they were fine in most cases but overall not powerfull enough and if we justify the upsides it also means they stay in most G2-3 situations which means you need to find other cards for sideboarding etc.
I simply added a 3rd Stoneforge and a 3rd Equipment (Swords of X), which means +1 Creature (which is fine) and 1 Equipment to powerup Creatures on the field or (in case of Copter) apply some kind of evasion to run over blockers. Full Playset of Stoneforge is still to much for me, because we can hardcast even stuff like Batterskull in most cases, can reuse SfM with Displacer and can't cast SfM T1 (with only 3 Mox) or even T2 in some situations (temple/tomb hand or only one cavern with spicy Humans/Eldrazi in Hand etc.) But with a 3rd Stoneforge and a "Swords"Slot Maindeck we can also think about another Sword at Side, simply because we have a "topdeck"pile and tutoring Equipment can be more viable than any hope for random 1off "Bombs" (at least in terms of consistent)
I made a bunch of testgames with the common sword (Fire and Ice) maindeck - it was okay but not outperformed in absence of TNN - simply because Jitte and Batterskull are very solid in most cases too. I currently tinker with Sword of Light and Shadow over Fire and Ice (SoFaI is at side) because it is not only good against DnT and Miracle (ignoring Mentor/Angels and Swords), it will also protects you from Zombie-Fish, Strix (!) and Fatal Push (the new hype removal that sadly can kill TKS) heck even Griselboy/Marit, bonus points are that you get back a creature which is simply underrated. It is maybe not strong enough for DnT because they have a) a lot of creatures and b) all are very small - compared to us we have fewer but more powerfull creatures and i often faced situations i run out of meat (all countered/killed by removal etc.) getting back Eldrazi seems not to bad. Some Lifegain to our draining Tombs or fast Delver-beats are also welcome. Note that Thalia 2.0, Displacer and Stoneforge are Bolt-immun once you equip them so protection from red are not the big upside here (and we still have big elrazi).
Sword of Fire and Ice and Sword of Light and Shadow seem both well placed for us at the current meta/problematic situations. (we can discuss all swords if needed)
-------
@other Sideboard-Cards: I want also mentioned Wasteland Strangler - this guy works well against all the BUG-Decks around, because Deathrite (and Angler for Grixis) will help to cast him as a removal spell, because we also have TKS and Swords (and WWail) to exile cards. Together with Displacer he can kill anything besides TNN. From my experience with Pontiff and Jailer it is very good to have Removal that can beat, because you don't want to many non-creature spells (we already have mox, chalice, equip) even if chalice goes out cutting creatures for pure spells isn't so good because your opponent will also add more removal-answers and we are not a swarm deck, so running out of gas and relying on top decks will be a bad situations (especially against blue based cantrip decks) - so if you have space (aka not running additional equipment or stuff like Pontiff) at side, this guy might be good enough since as a eldrazi with cc3 he is super cheap to be active early enough or if your manabase is under fire.
Note: if you are lucky you can also punish BUG Food Chain for exiling Griffins or BUG Shardless with Suspend-Vision(!)
@MD Ghost, May you post the corresponding list please?
@current "basic list":
// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
// 25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Palace Jailer
// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
6 Plains
4 Wasteland
// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
// 6 Creature
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Orzhov Pontiff
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 4 Swords to Plowshares
Maindeck flexslot: Palace Jailer - but i still like him as removal/card draw - Sideboard Faerie Macabre commonly is Rest in Peace, but i don't need RiP against BUG/Gofy decks anymore, so it is more or less (besides lands.deck) against fast graveyard hates and if speed counts T0 interaction that dodges stuff like Chancellor of the Annex is nice (overall we can still drop thalia/chalice/thorn turn 1). I would also use Sword of Light and Shadow against Reanimtor, pass Grisel, Sire and Gravetitan and also bring back Faerie too (:cool:)
This build is overall designed to be resilient and should work in most situations with some card advantage stuff.
-------------------
I currently brew around with a fun build with BLUE-cards - just in case someone will go with a much more experimental list.
// 60 Maindeck
// 9 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Umezawa's Jitte
// 26 Creature
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Palace Jailer
// 25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
1 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Adarkar Wastes (or Tundra if you want "fake" Miracle T1 situations)
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
// 5 Creature
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
SB: 1 Venser, Shaper Savant
// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 4 Swords to Plowshares
As you can see the core is more or less the same - i adjusted the manabase, cut stoneforge and add some nice flying eldrazi and another jailer to compensate SfM/Equipment. Skyspawner can catch delvers, fly over TNN and can carry a jitte (bonus points: ramps and works with displacer). Sideboard contains the real fun: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is just enougher tax-element that works also for enemy creatures (hi elves!) and can be protected with Karakas (so not a bad card against miracles too). Venser is against combo, fringe decks or any situation you need a 3rd Disenchant (in case of lock elements like Bridge) and - yes - it can be bonkers with Displacer too.
Picture of the day: "Hate.dec" :tongue:
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=d...0lxYzZRZjBiSkk
So over the past few weeks I've played 7 fnm sized events, all between 12-20 people Ive now 3-1 five of the 7. 2 grand prix side events in n.y. where i went 2-2 and 3-1. My results have definitely gotten better after playing the deck for a while.( about 50-60 sanctioned) The thing that took the most getting used to was how much more grindy this deck is than the standard eldrazi list i was playing for nearly a year. I'm on the same list from a couple pages ago. I tried smugglers copter, didn't like it that much mostly just gets hit with artifact hate game 2 and 3 and sometimes cost 3 because theres a Thalia in play . Just wasn't good enough. ok well thats it for this minute. I gotta of to bed.
I didn't see people mention this earlier, but I guess TS took 1st at a NRG event. Here's the interview with the pilot:
http://articles.nerdragegaming.com/q...-peter-tragos/
Notable choices: 0 Jailer, 2 Gideon in SB, Priest & Revoker & Copter all mainboard.
Congrats to Pete
I'm personally not a fan of Pete’s list here, but I can agree with him that the following cards are at the core of the deck:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaono
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
25 lands
The things I don’t like about the list are the copters, maindeck preists and gideon & armageddon in the side.
I am however going to test out his mana base:
5 Plains
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
3 Karakas
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
I got 3rd at the Bearded dragon Battle for power today. 98 People .I went undefeated through the swiss 6-0 ,then i.d. the last round for top seed. I play Craig krempels( sp?) on storm . i play a chalice on 1 he wins on his turn 1 through chalice on 1 . i take the next 2 . Then lost to Ted felicetti on miracles for 3rd.
This is my list
11 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 lotus petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 smugglers copter
25 Creature
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 containment priest
1 endbringer
1 aven mindcensor
24 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
6 Plains
3 Wasteland
15 Sideboard
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 pithing needle
2 Faerie Macabre
2 rest in peace
2 Disenchant
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 ratchet bomb
2 blessed alliance
Congratulations metronome
Did mindcensor or blessed alliance make a good showing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by metronome2charisma
Thanks Contra!Quote:
Originally Posted by contra
Blessed alliance has won me a few games and as long as true name ,sneak and show and lands are popular in my meta Blessed alliance will be staying around . Minsdcensor has been solid. not over performing but doing exactly what it needs to do...block delvers and fuck my opponent. i'm going to make a couple changes though . i think the end bringer should be something else . preferably something under 5 mana , maybe hero of bladehold ,maybe palace jailer, maybe another copter, maybe walking ballista ( probably ballista) .
Agree here - this is the core - rest depends on playstyle but i also think at least 3x Thalia HC should be at main, at least 1x Jitte (or a 2nd Copy or Stoneforge+Equip) - overall i think the real flex spots are Stoneforge+Equipment, because we can also play C.Priest or Copter main etc. Or simply drop more Hate-Bears like Wingmare or Mindcensor etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by contra
I run Pontiff, but i think Blessed Alliance is a solid card if you don't like the WB-Human-Sweeper because it will also helps against TNN, Eldrazi etc. Overall if you search for a card under 5 Mana i would clearly think go with Palace Jailer, its only cc4, easily be uncounterable, removal on a body, combo with Displacer and draw cards eot (faster than confi etc.) overall a great package and one of the reasons even some DnT Players try Ancient Tombs.Quote:
Originally Posted by metronome2charisma
i've run jailer and he's been good but i don't think he's the threat i'm looking for . Smugglers copter actually preformed really well yesterday and put me in a lot of good spots and was generally really solid but then again i felt like i couldn't drop a game (i only dropped 2 games in the swiss (and got a deck reg. loss)) over all they give the deck more angles . Speaking of angles, creatures with flash also take a lot of people by surprise and make playing and equipping a jitte ,from a clear board, a real threat. Playing 6 plains is a nod to needing more white mana for your "good, white, side board cards" , which in turn makes playing Mindcensor mb possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
rd 1 bug delver 2-0
rd 2 sneak n show 2-1 .
rd 3 grixis delver. Got deck checked and got a loss for deck reg error then i won the next 2 .2-1
rd 4 lands . i crush him .have every answer to everything. 2-0 . Was told i shouldn't be playing blessed alliance because it sucks after i beat him with it .
rd 5 G-fab on miracles. Win the roll won the match . Nothing of real significance happened . just kept jamming 1 or 2 threats at a time on the board and try to shut him down.2-1
rd 6 Dan miller on miracles. We've been friends for a long time so the match is super casual. he remarks after the match that he "feels like he just got steam rolled and never had a chance." i agreed. 2-0
rd 7 we i.d.
top 8
Craig krempels on storm .He wins through my turn 1 chalice on his turn 1. I win the next 2 with the help of thorn, chalice,revoker and mind censor .Pretty standard fare for the match-up. 2-1
semis Ted Felicetti on miracles. I keep marginal hands and get punished hard by bad draw after bad draw. Mostly didn't get passed 3 mana at any point and lost. Game 2 same thing . i keep a hand with 2 petal 1 land hoping to get there don't draw another land for 3-4 turns . the game was over. 0-2
3RD place 7-1-1. Wrote it down for the tournament report they're writing. My memory is garbage.
There's no doubt that pontiff's ability is exactly what this deck wants, but the consensus is you can't reliably cast him with only only 4 caverns and 4 diamonds - both of which can't always produce black mana. Additionally you yourself agreed that ww is hard to produce consistently for prelate when there's just about twice as much mana to cast her (4 cavern, 4 mox, 5 plains, 3 karakas)Quote:
Originally Posted by MD.Ghost
My current list. Forsake the Worldly feels like an upgrade to seal or disenchant for this deck. Other amonkhet cards I'd consider would be Vizier of Deferment and Cast Out.
25 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
3 Karakas
3 City of Traitors
5 Plains
24 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
11 Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
2 Forsake the Worldly
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Warping Wail
Quote:
Originally Posted by metronome2charisma
How do you like the Petals over a card like Mox Diamond? I'm sure this has been debated before, but i'm new to the thread and didnt see anything about this choice in my quick couple minute search. In theory, i dont like the idea of a Chalice on 1 on Turn 1 off a Diamond taking up 4 of your opening cards, but i see a lot of lists running it anyways. Mox Diamond just makes so much more sense in a deck like Aggro Loam, where you can recur your discarded lands.
Also, did Swords ever become awkward with Chalice? I feel like there are some matchups where you want both, like Delver.
I'm mostly a Delver player, and an aggro player at heart, but i guess Delver basically is aggro. I built colorless Eldrazi Stompy as my second deck, but just one glance at these white lists has convinced me that this version is far superior, so i plan to build it real soon.
Thanks for any input.
StP usually goes in when Chalice comes out (other Stompy decks, aggro decks with Abrupt Decay, D&T) so it isn't usually a problem. Versus Delver, you can run both, but I might leave out StP on the play hoping that a Chalice will stick. I've seen combinations of Dismember/Warping Wail/Spatial Contortion used as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
As far as Mox Diamond, the deck needs permanent mana sources, and with such a high land count and semi-redundant manabase you can usually find something to discard. If there was a white spirit guide I'd probably run that. Lotus Petal seems ok.
From Pete's interview: "Stoneforge Mystic is bad, Smuggler’s Copter is the truth, and I love the weird looks I get when I play it on turn 1."Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaono
The Thopter vs. SFM debate really interests me. SFM's power is well known. It's banned in Modern and is still a mainstay in Legacy D&T and Bant (although not all Dark Bant lists). Along with Terminus, it pretty much pushed Tribal aggro out of the format. Still, it's slow, and doesn't punch through TNN (public enemy #1). In my opinion, SFM takes this deck into a much more grindy direction, a la D&T.
Smuggler's Copter is faster (no equip cost). It offers virtual card advantage to a deck that can often get mana flooded/screwed. It flies over TNN (but dies to flipped Delver). When I first started playing with vehicles I would sometimes forget that creatures can crew the turn they come into play. Once I started to get the sequencing correct, Copter's value really started to show, particularly in a more aggressive version of the deck. Also, it's important to announce attack phases with respect to the loot effect and removal.
What is everyone else's experience with Copter?
I still like Copter especially since the deck is desperate for CA/filtering now that Jailer has gotten worse. More impactful t1 plays are also necessary, which is why I run copter and SFM. With a Mox Diamond hand being able to drop SFM/Thalia or Copter/Chalice off of just a sol land too is so important for this deck. You never want to be playing from behind, and you're less likely to be Wastelanded if you've got a board presence early.Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
I used to play Revoker main, but you don't want to cast it t0 obviously and its disruption is less valuable to us since we're a stompy deck more than a taxing deck. We're not porting (and not always aggressively wastelanding) our opponents so shutting off a DRS isn't that valuable. To me it's just too weak, whereas SFM is another must answer threat that comes down early to crew Copter.
I don't play diamond because i only play 24 land and i need my land drops and can't generally afford to discard a land. I'm playing 4 lotus petal , instead of 3 Diamonds which makes having one in your opener more likely. Generally i'm using Lotus petal to power out a first turn Thalia or chalice and occasionally as a needed white source, letting my draws get me the land i need . The lower curve of the deck lets you naturally draw the land you need on time. I HAVE had small issues with petal making hands keepable but then getting mana screwed but guess thats just mana screw. I personally really like Lotus petal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisCBR
The question about STP has already been answered but i'll bring it in vs abrupt decay decks because they'll generally answer your chalice or you can use it when chalice isn't in play. I will side out 2 chalice on the draw against bug decks anyway so it isn't really a problem . Most other times i bring in the Swords the Chalices come out (other stomp decks , DnT, menfolk, ect.) You don't need to bring in swords for the delver match up because you have Displacer Containment priest as removal for most creatures, not to mention jitte. I've been having really good luck against delver lately so maybe its just me.This will be the list i'll run for a minute
12 Artifact
4 Chalice of the Void
4 lotus petal
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 smugglers copter
24 Creature
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 containment priest
1 aven mindcensor
24 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Karakas
6 Plains
3 Wasteland
15 Sideboard
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 containment priest
2 Faerie Macabre
2 rest in peace
2 Disenchant
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 ratchet bomb
2 blessed alliance
With Top out of the format what changes does everyone expect to see/ make? These are just theories but i think big thalia gets better( is that possible?) because with top gone there won't be a deck playing a bunch of basics. Phyrexian revoker gets a little worse, because top was a BIG reason to have 3 of this guy main deck.. Thoughts?