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Yeah, I somehow forgot that FoF is an instant (what were they thinking!) which is extra dumb since I played it in Faerie Stomy fo so long (although that deck doesn't care too much about timing).
I'd like to help with the near mirror problems, but I'm unclear about the actual problem. What about UW Landstill wrecks you so much?
Yeah, when I got there, I talked it over with the people I came with and decided to add the 4th Stifle, in case there was a lot of combo. I can't say it was really awesome, and to be honest, I think I should have switched back to the 4th Edict for the Champs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
As for the actual Champs, I went 0-2 drop. A combination of horrible hands and little to no sleep really worked me over. I played /R Thresh round won, won game 1 and then lost game 2 and 3 when I only seemed to draw land after land (And no, not the good kind...). Then I played against Goblins Round 2 and kept a decent hand, but he had double Lackey, double Waste and a Port, so I lost before a Deed could clear his board. Game 2 I just had to keep mulliganing because the hands were terrible. I played Goblins in round 7 of the Prelims and crushed it both games. So I don't know, win some lose some.
After the drop from the champs I entered a 4 round Legacy event and went 3-1 and got some packs. My records for the weekend were 5-2 (Prelims), 0-2 (Champs), 3-1 (Side Event), 2-2 (Side Event, having to play my friend with Terrageddon and Genesis. Not good times). I really liked the deck, and I think it has a lot of potential, but my mulligans and no sleep, I know, caused me to make some mistakes. I'll continue to test the list though, since I bought/traded for a lot foils for the deck while I was there. :tongue:
Lack of sleep will cause anyone to lose with anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarky87
Sounds like you just faced the ridiculous god draw from Goblins in game one though. Good to know you managed to get some serious crushing in on Goblins in the prelims though.
First of all I would like to thank you for your insight/tech... I'm trying out the configuration you suggested right now in addition to 3 sideboard Extirpates.Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
Meanwhile I've discussed your list with Marius Hausman, one of the more experienced Landstill players of Germany and he has suggested just playing Engineered Plagues in the sideboard because they are pretty versatile too (good against Fish, Ichorid, Goblin(tokkens) & others)... what is your perspective on this card?
I was running Plague for a short while. I found the card to be great except that most everyone else around here is running Plague and so most of the Goblin decks are running Krosan Grip. More or less becuase of that I went in the Cunning Wish for Pulse of the Fields direction. Since you are looking to add more hate for your goblins match, Plagues could help and would be considerably more versatile than running COP Red. The thing with COP Red is you can stick it down on turn 2 and safly hide behind it for a very long time assuming you are not playing against Red/Green Goblins. Goblins aren't very popular around here latly, If you would expect to see Goblins more than once in a tournament around there I would stick with the COP's if not you could be safe with the plague's. Either way you go I recomend adding the 2 Humilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_imaginäre_Freund
Fish should be a fairly easy match up with my list, board out the 3 Cunning Wishes and board in the 3 Spell Snares, this should speed up your defenses and help you play around Daze. Keep Bob off the board and you should be able to win through card advantage pretty easily.
I had never considered Plagues for Ichorid, Honestly with boarding in the 3 Extirpates and the 2 Humilities I don't seem to have a bad match against Ichorid. They wouldn't hurt in this match but I don't know what you would take out when boarding.
I played in a Mox Saphire tournament yesterday, I took home the 2nd place prize [4 Underground Sea's, 4 Tundra's] with my only loss for the day being against Cephalid Breakfast in the finals. I find before board I am losing game one consistently in this match. After boarding I can almost 100% stop them from going off with the combo, the problem is I am dying to those damn Tarmogoyf's. I took my deck to a 5-1-2 record for the day only to lose to the damn deck that I board in 10 cards for in the finals. My 2 draws were both due to lack of time in round but I had a considerable board and card advantage and I am certain that short of me shooting myself in the head I would have won both of them as well. Does anyone have a stratagy that is working well against this deck?
They run Decree of Justice and Wasteland and I don't, meaning that without a Deed down first, they get the advantage in Standstills. In addition, they run Eternal Dragon. UW simply outclasses me in the midgame and has more ways to kill me than I have to kill them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
Extirpate is good against the Tarmogoyf version. At times, they'll roll into a Narcomoeba/Therapy setup before you even see a Goyf or a Dread Return, but if you see either one you can fire off the Extirpate with confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
I do fairly well in this matchup in large part due to Diabolic Edict and STP backed up by Countermagic, but sometimes they just run too much disruption to do much about.
What's your boarding plan? Do you go so far as to board out the Standstills? I'm assuming Needle (for DoJ and Dragon) is golden, and Extirpate for the Wastes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Keep in mind this is only my strategy for UW, not for all Landstill mirrors, and not for UW that's really UWB or UWBG after a Cunning Wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
First of all, I don't run Needle to board in. I also board depending on how my opponent played game 1, how much time is left, and whether or not I won game one.
My general strategy isn't to Extirpate their Wastelands. It's to Extirpate their kill conditions or most harmful cards. Wasteland itself doesn't do a whole lot against me. It's when you combine it with Crucible of Worlds that it becomes a problem, and I can usually stop 2-3 Crucibles with Countermagic, Pernicious Deed and especially Krosan Grip. Extirpate's top target will be those pesky Eternal Dragons. Decree of Justice can be handled effectively by Pernicious Deed, Stifle, and Engineered Plague, but if they cycle one early for a card, I won't hesitate to Extirpate it either. I'm also not above Extirpating Swords to Plowshares if my opponent demonstrates himself to be the sort who simply wants to run me out of kill conditions.
With that said, though, I will Extirpate a Wasteland in a heartbeat if I have any reason to believe it will give me an edge under a Standstill I'm holding. (IE, he's hurting for mana and I've got 2-3 Factories, or I've already Extirpated Decree of Justice, or I have a Deed down already to take down the tokens.)
I generally only bring in Grip, Plague, and Extirpate. If my time is running low, I -might- bring in Meddling Mage as a sneaky last resort, name Swords to Plowshares, and try to wreck any Factories I come across with Grip/Deed or even Edict. This is only useful for one game and in a pinch, though, as you're counting on your opponent to board out all of his sorcery speed removal and things like Humility.
I've actually got a pretty solid fighting chance in games 2 and 3 here, but I get massacred game one.
As for boarding out the Standstills, I'll always board out at least two. Whether I board out four just sort of depends on whether I won game one and how much time is left and how bad it would be for me if I won game 2 only to draw on time before anything happened on game 3.
Versions which pack Cunning Wish or black at all get far worse, as then I've got to worry about them packing Extirpate also.
What do you guys think about this version? My only problem will be a resolved Magus of the Moon :S
First the deck - choices afterwards.
//Lands
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
//Finisher
1 Tombstalker
1 Quagnoth
1 Haunting Echoes
//Boardcleaner/Removal
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Innocent Blood
//Rest
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Stifle
2 Fact or Fiction
2 Crucible of Worlds
//SB
4 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
4 Spell Snare
3 Extirpate
Choices:
Lands:
2 Conclaves, for the case that an opponent removes my factories with Extirpate.
Finishers:
Tombstalker is just amazing. He can get online very fast and is a solid 4turn clock for the opponent.
Quagnoth is really hard to be removed for the opponent and although he isn't that strong he does the job faster than the factories.
Haunting Echoes is one of my favorites, it just allows you to strip the entire deck of your opponents. Incredibly strong.
Removal:
Deed should be obvious. I run 4 because it is oftentimes stronger than the explosives, destroying the opponents Chalices or Mox Diamonds/Chrome Moxes as well.
I thought about Crime/Punishment as well. But i'd only run it as a one off, for the case that the opponent has multiple needles online.
I don't wanna run more than 1 because i can't use the entire potential of this really kewl card.
Explosives is also pretty nice against for example combo. The Innocent Blood is just kewl against things like Gro with that untouchable Mungo.
The rest should be pretty clear i think. MD stifle against combo and to annoy the opponent to death :laugh:
Sideboard:
Plagues against Goblins / Meathooks / Combo.
Duress against Combo.
Spell Snare against pretty much every modern Deck. That card is really amazing against things like: Hymn, Confi, Goofy, Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, Survival and so on.
Extirpates mainly against the enemy's Goyf or Confi. Or Survival. Etc...
Things i thought about:
Smother - Innocent Blood just seems to be better in the early game, where i have most of my problems.
Counterbalance - I just don't wanna waste good cards to have the right Manabreakdown.
I guess that was my part. Now it's up to you ;)
After playtesting the Deck, I assume the only bad Matchup is Vial Goblins which appears less in the last time, so I think Landstill is very decent choice atm. I know Landstill with Deed only as UWbg, but this version seems to work too (with white you lose Monasterys and Swords, both would be nice but acceptable to cut). A Matchup which could be not that good is NQGr with Burning-Tree Shaman (which is played here sometimes). I don't know exactly if Spell Snare is better than Threads of Disloyalty here. The only thing you can't handle with Threads are Hymn to Tourachs, so why not play Threads? I mean stealing the Goyf of you Opponent seems smarter then counter him?
Here's an issue for all you Landstill players..
Tarmagoyf is on his way to have dominance over our format which means aggro control will be nice to prey off of. Goyf is still a problem himself though.
I hate to swords him and give the opponent 5 life.
A single goyf can go the distance through your manlands making Monastary lack luster.
Wrath sucks against decks who's strategy becomes :1::g:.
This seems to be one of the decks in the goyfmat that needs to adjust by adding its own copies. Does anyone else feel this way?
No. Landstill is not the only blue-based control deck in existence, you know. If you feel the need to play Tarmogoyfs of your own, then you drop the entire manlands+boardsweepers+Standstill synergy that the deck was founded upon. It's like trying to fit in Tarmogoyf in CounterSlivers: even if it were an improvement, you are no longer playing CounterSlivers.
You need to find a different game plan altogether; a good starting point might be this.
Please note that because of the current DTB update, Landstill should be considered a DTB; however, because of the various lists T8ing (UWB, UWG, UR, BHWC, UWB, UWBG) and the lack of a current thread to specifically discuss a single build, Landstill will remain an ATW.
If your Landstill build can't handle Tarmogoyf, fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
Seriously. We run combinations of Swords to Plowshares, Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives, Force of Will, Counterspell, Diabolic Edict, Spell Snare, Meddling Mage, and Extirpate. The only times I remember having serious creature problems with Landstill other than occasional fluke games are when the opponent is playing like, 28+ threats (Goblins) or when they have a means of generating threats with ridiculous longevity (with Survival or Genesis).
Goyf is a creature like any other to this deck. In fact, he is no harder to get rid of than a Cloud of Faeries unless you're running Red (or, well, Faerie Conclave). And giving your opponent 5 life off a Swords to Plowshares isn't a major deal. You're going to have the game well in control by the time you start hacking away at your opponent's face.
And Wrath, and Nantuko Monestaries can double block him with First Strike.
I've held off Goyfs with a Monestary and a few Decree tokens until I stabilized and won.
I'll play StP targeting Tarmogoyf all freakin' day long, I'll Wrath away Tarmogoyf all day long, I'll Deed away Tarmogoyf all day long, I'll sac E.E. dialed up to 2 all day long, I don't care if he's a 7/8 beater and my opponent gains 7 life, I want him GONE! My problem with 'goyf in Landstill is he doesn't come back from dead. I am in favor of recurring manlands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane of the Living
If you're having a trouble dealing with one creature with a deck that's meant to handle numerable creatures, I think that's more of a player problem than a deck problem.
First, sorry if anyone has already brought it up, but I did the search function and it seems it hasn't been mentioned in this thread.
Has Hatching Plans been thought about in Landstill as a 2 of sorts?
Given the number of boardsweepers in deed/EE, it seems to be an effective and cheap card drawer.
Just my 2 cents.
This is my current list on MWS, and it's been working well so far. I'm posting cuz i'm kind of tired of people whining about Tarmogoyf. He's not that big of a deal, whether you Swords him, counter him, Innocent Blood him, kill him with Deed.
//Land (24)
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
3 Nantuko Monastery
3 Wasteland
//Spells (36)
4 Force of Will
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Fact or Fiction
3 Stifle
2 Innocent Blood
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Cunning Wish
//Sideboard
1 Stifle
4 Extirpate
2 Harmonic Convergence
1 Intervention Pact
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Return to Dust
1 Pact of Negation
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Disenchant
I still really like using Cunning Wish and playing Landstill as a toolbox deck. 90% of the time, I go for Pulse of the Fields. Against burn, they give up. Against a deck with Goyf, you've just counteracted the negative affects of STP'ing their Goyf, and its amazing life gain. Landstill should run enough mana to use it a few times per turn if necessary.
@konsultant: Hey do you mind showing us your most updated landstill list?