[Deck] Survival

The list I'm running is a twist on an old build of Di's:

Land: 20
4 Wooded foothills
4 Windswept heath
3 Taiga
3 Bayou
3 Savannah
3 Forest

Creatures: 28
4 Birds of paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Nimble mongoose
3 Eternal witness
2 Shriekmaw
2 Mogg fanatic
1 Magus of the moon
1 Genesis
1 Anger
1 Squee
1 Stonecloaker
1 Harmonic sliver
1 Darkheart sliver
1 Rofellos
1 Quirion ranger
1 Masticore

Non-creatures: 12
4 Survival of the fittest
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Cabal therapy

Sideboard: 15
4 Thoughtseize
3 Gaddock teeg
3 Engineered plague
3 Extirpate
1 Harmonic sliver
1 Magus of the moon

The deck looks very toolboxy, but it performs well even without a survival. The white splash enables not only swords, but harmonic sliver (+darkheart for a nice like combo) and stonecloaker as well. It's also useful for sideboard options; in particular, it allows gaddock teeg and an additional sliver.

This is what I've been running for a RGb

Land:20

6 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Bayou
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

Creatures:23

1 Rofellos
1 Spore Frog
2 Shriekmaw
1 Genesis
1 Anger
1 Tinder Wall
1 Masticore
1 Squee
1 Eternal Witness
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Tin-Street
2 Baloth
2 Flametongue
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf

Spells: 17

4 Thoughtseize
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Jitte

Sideboard:

1 Hull Breach
1 Pyroclasm
1 Anarchy
1 Seeds of Innocence
1 Reverent Silence
3 Engineered Plague
1 Tsunami
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Extirpate
1 Creature w/ graveyard hate



I think some of you are wondering why I have some random creatures in here. People say that spore frog is good only with vial, I beg to differ since I've had multiple wins on the back of the frog without vial simply due to the surprise element of this guy. He always buys a turn against gobbos and other various aggro and can be recurred with Genesis. Tinder wall is good because he can potentially let you 2nd turn burning wish into pyroclasm or hull breach. The lone Eternal Witness is for the sole purpose of returning your survival back into your hand if it is destroyed since I found having too many Eternal Witnesses got too clanky. Jitte is the best kept secret and will win you games against storm combo you never thought you would and it also makes your more "useless" creatures a threat. I also have some fat (baloths and Kavu) because when I took them out, the deck seemed lacking especially since a lot of our slots are dedicated to things like cabal and thoughtseize. I feel that 2/2 ratio is good. Please let me know what you think.

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Originally Posted by hungryboi

The lone Eternal Witness is for the sole purpose of returning your survival back into your hand if it is destroyed since I found having too many Eternal Witnesses got too clanky.

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Recurring Forced/Thoughtseized/Dazed Survivals, fixing your manabase, and recurring discard/threats is clanky?

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Jitte is the best kept secret and will win you games against storm combo you never thought you would

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What?

Alot of times, storm combo decks will try to bring you down past twenty and that's it. Jitte can give you the option of gaining a lot of life to be able to withstand that barrage, especially if you can stall them long enough with discard to get jitte working. It's viable since it doesn't demand too much mana compared to a creature you have to recurr constantly with genesis. BTW I'm not saying that Jitte is an anti combo card because it isn't. I feel that it contributes to your arsenal against combo.

As for the lone Eternal Witness, I haven't had multiples of them since the days of RGSA. Those days, it felt clanky since we didn't run so much non-creature spells. Sad to say, those days were the last times I played competitively (Although I keep up on thesource). You have a point in that it recurs a lot of cards and is good card advantage. I could possibly cut a shriekmaw out for one more Eternal.

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Originally Posted by hungryboi

Alot of times, storm combo decks will try to bring you down past twenty and that's it. Jitte can give you the option of gaining a lot of life to be able to withstand that barrage, especially if you can stall them long enough with discard to get jitte working. It's viable since it doesn't demand too much mana compared to a creature you have to recurr constantly with genesis. BTW I'm not saying that Jitte is an anti combo card because it isn't. I feel that it contributes to your arsenal against combo.

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Unfortunately, the earliest that Jitte is online is turn 3... If a storm combo doesn't go off by then unmolested, you're lucky. If they are trying to go off... and they can't win by Tendrils, unless they're going off on their win condition in-hand instead of a tutor, they'll just choose EtW. I'm afraid the Jitte doesn't do anything, really... unless you pack a solution for 18-22 goblin tokens. Your best bet against such is, depending on build... Orim's Chant, Stifle, or Chalice.

Your best bet is Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, and Gaddock Teeg. These are the guys that beat Storm Combo.

I've also been using Null Rod in my sideboard for quite some time now to great success to help out with the combo matchups. It also happens to be incredibly good against a majority of the best decks in the format and problematic cards, like Sensei's Divining Top, Vedalken Shackles, Umezawa's Jitte, Aether Vial, the entire Affinity deck, etc. It's almost as good as Gaddock Teeg as far as combo hosers go, but this has the benefit of stopping a whole lot of other stuff too. I highly advise running it, or at least giving it a try.

So Di, if you had slots for Teeg OR null rod, which do you choose? I'm coming up on a series of small legacy tourneys at my college, and trying to tune Gbrw for them. The metagame is sure to be pretty random, and I don't even know if there will be any combo.

Also, for those of you who have played burning wish, would you recommend it? What are your targets, and for which matchups do you find wish most important?

In my last sideboard, I had both, with another Teeg maindeck. If you have the slots open to run both of them, I don't see why not, given that outside of combo, the cards can be sided in for drastically different roles. (e.g. Teeg vs. Landstill/control, Null Rod vs. X-Stompy/Affinity/whatever)

BGW Updates. I was going to attempt to ease my way into a red splash, but I couldn't find a couple of cards I needed (Quirion Rangers like to hide), so I said the hell with it and stuck with BGW.

I took 1st in the local tournament today, beating Goblins, Goblins, Black Aggro w/ Withering Wisps, and Cephalid Breakfast. The list I ran was as follows:

4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
4 Bayou
4 Forest
1 Plains

4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Survival of the Fittest

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Doran, The Siege Tower
4 Eternal Witness
2 Shriekmaw
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Genesis

SB:
4 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Life From The Loam
2 Circle of Protection: Red

I railed on both RB and RGB (My own deck) Goblins, 2-0, 2-0. I narrowly edged the Wisps deck due to maindeck Wretches and a 6 point Withering Wisp detonation on Doran/Tarmogoyf (Peeled out Game 2 by topdecking a Hierarch at 1).

Cephalid Breakfast torched me game 1, even after I led Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize on my first two turns and had a Swords waiting on Cephalid Breakfast (Too. Many. Counters. Zomg.) This was somewhat scary. The second and third games I boarded out my entire Survival engine for Plague/Extirpate/Teeg and drew insane amounts of hate and acceleration and was able to stick through.

Limited match variety, but there you have it nonetheless.

EDIT: To give this post content, anyone got a decent idea how a non-control BGW build deals with random aggro black decks? Shriekmaw being useless sort of limits my removal options, and if I don't draw a Swords or can't recur it via Witness due to yard hate, I tend to find myself having problems.

Maybe one BGH over the Second Shriekmaw? I'm not sure if thats the right call though, I mean Witness-Swords usually cuts it I think.

Did you miss the Tops? Did you really want that extra land and Shriekmaw more than the Tops?

in regard to the sideboard changes; is Seal of Primordium better than KGrip?

How has the manabase been? mine differs slightly (I guess trying to be more resiliant against non-basic hate).

// Lands
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [PT] Forest (1)
2 [R] Savannah
3 [R] Bayou
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [LRW] Swamp (1)
1 [MR] Plains (2)
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [R] Scrubland

Urborg Shambler and/or the Stronghold version of same. Nice guys you have there, all of them are dead tks.

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Originally Posted by Osse

Maybe one BGH over the Second Shriekmaw? I'm not sure if thats the right call though, I mean Witness-Swords usually cuts it I think.

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The problem is, the creatures wailing on me weren't big. They were evasive. Today it was Dauthi Slayer, but things like Stromgald Crusader are the worst. I can't block him and I can't remove him.

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Did you miss the Tops? Did you really want that extra land and Shriekmaw more than the Tops?

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I'm not entirely sure because I don't really ever have a situation where I would ever go "I wish I had a Top right now" to notice. The reason I cut them is because of the mana intensity involved and the fact that I prefer to play more like midrange aggro than control, and Tops are better the more controlling you play. I did have one game (The game I bailed out with the last second Hierarch) where a Top would have easily pulled its weight, I think. I may go back to trying them.

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in regard to the sideboard changes; is Seal of Primordium better than KGrip?

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Undetermined. I picked Seal due to being pre-emptive against Standstill and Counterbalance (You can see from my match report how obviously brilliant this was) and costing one less. Bizarrely, though, the fact that it was pre-emptive saved my ass against the black deck, which kept wanting to equip a Grafted Wargear to get a lethal swing in. Having the Seal out early let me tap out to do other things. I've been testing Seal in place of Grip in a lot of decks lately, and this is just another test.

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How has the manabase been? mine differs slightly (I guess trying to be more resiliant against non-basic hate).

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Pretty good. The Forests let me function, the Birds help to a degree, and the single plains lets me Harmonic Sliver a Blood Moon or Swords a Magus (Although if it comes down turn one when I'm on the draw, I'm probably still in trouble.) I don't run the basic swamp because I don't run a way to fetch it, and I'm sort of meh about Sakura-Tribe Elder.

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EDIT: To give this post content, anyone got a decent idea how a non-control BGW build deals with random aggro black decks? Shriekmaw being useless sort of limits my removal options, and if I don't draw a Swords or can't recur it via Witness due to yard hate, I tend to find myself having problems.

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Chameleon Colossus + Rofellos should be fairly effective. You could also run Vindicate.

If it's stuff like Crusader or Slayer, isn't Engineered Plague enough? I mean, from my testing experience the Deadguy matchup is probably the hardest, but if you can stabilize you usually end up winning; to follow that plan would Hierarch #2 be better than Shriekmaw #2?

To add to the discussion, Chameleon Colossus should really be looked into I think (Maybe in the Hierarch/Shriekmaw #2 slot). He's huge, he's even a Sliver for those weird matchups where it might matter.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

EDIT: To give this post content, anyone got a decent idea how a non-control BGW build deals with random aggro black decks? Shriekmaw being useless sort of limits my removal options, and if I don't draw a Swords or can't recur it via Witness due to yard hate, I tend to find myself having problems.

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I still maindeck a Mystic Enforcer, although it's for flying over a ground stall rather than for the pro-black. Still, they can't get rid of it and it will block a Nantuko Shade/Tombstalker or race a Stromgald Crusader all day long.

Spore Frog (which I'm constantly taking in and out of the MD) is also fairly good, since they aren't very good at building up a big alpha strike so Jitte is their only real out.

If you need cheap removal for Sui Black's pro-white creatures, I guess Orzhov Pontiff may do the trick.

I've been tinkering with a very weird build of survival. It's some sort of ATS.

I would like to have some advice. I would like to keep it UGR.

My problemmatchup seems to be goblins and other fast aggro.


// Lands
4 [B] Taiga
4 [B] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
5 [UNH] Forest
3 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
1 [UD] Masticore
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Anger
4 [A] Birds of Paradise
1 [JU] Genesis
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [TE] Tradewind Rider
1 [US] Gilded Drake
1 [UD] Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 [VI] Quirion Ranger
1 [PT] Fire Imp

// Spells
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [DIS] Trygon Predator
SB: 2 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
SB: 1 [PY] Spore Frog
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [DIS] Loaming Shaman
SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Pyromancer
4 Open slots

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

EDIT: To give this post content, anyone got a decent idea how a non-control BGW build deals with random aggro black decks? Shriekmaw being useless sort of limits my removal options, and if I don't draw a Swords or can't recur it via Witness due to yard hate, I tend to find myself having problems.

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Well, if you were running red, you could get things like Flametongue Kavu or Fire Imp. But, with only BGW, you could try Masticore (works better with Rofellos), Umezawa's Jitte (not tutorable), Lieutenant Kirtar, Rakdos Guildmage, or Keening Banshee (but :b::b: sucks).

Of those options, Masticore or Jitte are probably best.

Although, I'd like to try a recurring Lieutenant Kirtar....but that's a lot of mana. You'd have to have a Aether Vial or something.

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Originally Posted by Waikiki

I've been tinkering with a very weird build of survival. It's some sort of ATS.

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You may want to take a look at Not Quite Survival. Similar concept, and I would say that Black adds much more than Red to the deck.

that concept indeed does look cool but I dont own the seas, so that will make it hard for me to play that.