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Spellstutter Sprite. I've been running it in another deck as the only faerie, and I definitely like it. The biggest question for FS is how you want it to slot in; Chalice will often take care of mana costs of one or two, so you probably want the sprite to be backed up by Cloud of Faeries again. Ultimately, however, that may be too many weenies. I think it's certainly worth a look, however, although Pestermite might just do the trick better.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverGreen
There are good reasons to cut Chalice of the Void.
But if you opt to do so, I see little reason not to run this build...
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Pithing Needle
2 Ponder
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Trickbind
4 FoW
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
4 Serendib Efreet
From this thread... http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=6673
Perhaps with...
-2 Ponder
-3 Brainstorm
+4 Infiltrator il-Kor
+1 Sensei's Divining Top
Or some variation there of.
I always feel like an asshole "suggesting" cards that I know you've all tried and dismissed, but since I wasn't here when this was being developed I guess I'll just ask as to why they are considered suboptimal.
I've been testing/goldfishing the shit out of this deck the past few weeks and while 95% remains fairly consistent with whats already being run by the majority of FS players, I've been messing around with a few slots. Basically (depending on your build) these 3 slots would replace Pestermites/Psi-Blasts or Chalices for those who've dropped down to 1 MD.
Raven Familar: Besides giving additional effectiveness to Tops, and after it's served it's Impulsive fuction, early game can block a Goyf for a turn if need be or remove a Bridge. Late game in a pinch the echo can be paid and you still have an equipable beater.
Man-O-War: Besides the obvious, it could bounce a hard cast Drifter back to your hand to be used a second time.
Like I said, I'm sure there isn't a XU spell in existence that hasn't been tested or considered. I just figured I'd ask.
edit: I just reread the thread. I see BreathWeapon did try Raven and favored it, yet Taco made quite a few good points as to why it's not the right choice for a deck like this. Taco also had MOW's in his deck at one point and dropped them. Still, while the points made against Raven are solid, with Top being considered it seems like he's worth giving a second chance.
Last weekend I played a small tournament with 3 sword of light and shadow, 3 looter il-kor and 4 mulldrifter maindeck, and in most games where I couldn't go for a fast kill, I could get a draw engine online with the sword and the looter or mulldrifter recursion. Also, the pro-white and pro-black was a pain for most opponents against STP and smother.
Here's the list I played to a Top 4 finish at Wareham this past Saturday:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation
//NAME: Faerie Stompy
// Lands
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
// Creatures
1 Shoreline Ranger
4 Serendib Efreet
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sea Drake
3 Pestermite
4 Mulldrifter
3 Looter il-Kor
4 Juggernaut
// Spells
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Chrome Mox
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 Force of Will
SB: 2 Control Magic
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Winter Orb
I was, uhh, experimenting with no Force of Will maindeck in exchange for increased threat density. I ran 27 creatures with Juggernaut and Looter il-Kor filling in the slots vacated by Force and Chalices. I'm not decided on whether or not cutting MD Force was a good idea, but it never really hurt me in the tournament at all. I've decided that I don't like Top as a Trinket target, mostly because I can't envision a situation where I would want to find it over Chalice, Needle, Crypt, or EE. I only cast it once all day and decided it didn't fit in at all with the hyper-aggressive build I was going for. On the other hand, I was very impressed with the single Sword of Light and Shadow, and I might consider cutting another piece of equipment to add a second one next time. Life gain is great in a deck that enjoys killing itself with Ancient Tombs, and even though I never got the chance, recurring evoked Mulldrifters turn after turn sounds pretty solid. It saved me from Deed in one match by stocking my hand full of 4 flying guys, so my opponent was forced to Deed with only my one equipped creature out there and take the beatings from my full hand. Protection from StP and Smother is great too, especially with the increased presence of the latter because of Goyf and the reduced number of Chalices to protect from StP. Probably my biggest mistake in this decklist was forgetting to include a 1-of artifact land as a Trinket target. It had never been relevant before this tournament, but in my Top 4 match I played a Mage, went to look, and realized I only had 3 Chrome Mox left in my library as targets. Crap.
I definitely feel like 2 Chalice was the right number. Cutting down from 4 eliminated the problem of drawing dead extras, but I just don't feel safe dropping to 1 like Eldariel. Chalice is just too much of a beating against so many decks to only play 1.
Lastly, my choice of duals for EE actually did matter. I would have played Tundra and Volcanic, but my brother was using the Tundras for UGw Thresh, so I had to play the Sea instead. In my Round 5 match against Ichorid, he has no idea what I'm playing. Knowing I don't have to fear Wasteland, I fetch the Volcanic, which results in a blind Therapy naming Lightning Bolt the following turn. Considering I'm a horrible bluffer, I was pretty happy with that working out. 12 Zombies ran me over the next turn anyway though, so it didn't matter. I'll likely be replacing the Top with a Crypt next time.
Wow, 27 creatures! Interesting build. Congrats on placing.
I haven't played Legacy out much (twice actually), but as you've pointed out as well as others and from what I did experience, Smother and Ghastly-D for that matter were pretty rampant. Getting to recur Mulldrifter and the life gain makes SoLS that much better. I've been testing the 2/2/2 split between the equipments myself and liking it so far.
As far as duals are concerned, I love the bluff factor. Being able to use them to EE @ 2 is the main reason to run them obviously, but I'm always worried about going too low on basics and maybe screwing myself when running B2B in the board or leaving myself vulnerable to Moons and Wasteland. You mentioned at one point wishing you had Synod, was that because you were facing Wastelands or was it simply to get UU for CM?
It was just to get another mana source, I believe.
You mentioned wanted the Synod in our game in Top 4 since really Needles ect hurt you as much as me in the Dragon/Faerie Stompy matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynel
Well, you certainly could've used Force of Will against Dragon Stompy. FoWing a turn 1 Slogger is basically The Win™. I wouldn't dare to go out without a FoW, but I'll be testing SoLaS since the protection makes it a much stronger deck against the appropriate colours than either Jitte or SoFI. It'll truly be a case of just bluffing them enough to equip it and just winning; it also makes Force better as you can use it to protect the creature for just long enough to equip and win; any iterative StPs et. al don't matter. I'm worried about the fact that it can't kill opposing creatures, making me more open to certain Joblins, Purechina Angel, Confidant, Shade, 'Goyf, Welder et al. Mayhap that's bearable though. For a creature, do consider Gathan Raiders, if you aren't running FoW, it may very well be worth the slot and the colourlessness is hardly a problem if you didn't need blue to begin with.
I'm not liking Looter anymore even if I'd play SoLaS; I can constantly cycle Cloud and damn, Cloud gives you the acceleration to match decks like Dragon Stompy. Matches against that made me remember how fast Faerie Stompy is in the first place, so I'd rather not give that up. Besides, Looter has been nothing but glacial whenever I've tested it, and the inability to chump has hurt quite a lot in this meta
Btw, EE for 0 is really good vs. Ichorid. Just sayin'. Also, I strongly suggest you try B2B if you expect at all midrange control or Rockkish decks, the card just wins there.
I'm glad someone said it. Most may balk at the mere mention of chumping in a deck like this, but riding out a single equipped flyer each turn while throwing Mulldrifters, CoFs, and Mages in front of opposing ground attacks becomes very relevant more often than the full on alpha strike strategy to win.Quote:
the inability to chump has hurt quite a lot in this meta
I was scrambling around before the tournament trying to find a set of Back to Basics, but I couldn't so I had to stick with Winter Orbs. Oddly enough, this ended up working out well for me, because the only matchup I had all day where I boarded them in was against ForceofWill playing Loam Control and I was able to keep untapping the Underground Sea and City of Traitors I drew instead of being locked down under my own card. If I were to play B2B, I would probably cut down to one dual.
I also agree 100% on Looter. On its own, it's not a threat. It doesn't block Goyf, Slogger, Mongoose, or any other relevant creature in the format. The card filtering ability actually made me hesitant to attack sometimes when I only had 1 card in hand. Plus, I'm not a fan of taking 2 from Ancient Tomb then mana burning for 1 afterwards. My likely changes would be -2 Looter, -2 Juggernaut, +4 Force. Juggernaut is just so much better in Vintage.
For those that do play B2B and happen to run the 3 Fetch/1 Dual mana base, do you find you have issues screwing yourself? I also noticed that Eladriel dropped Synod in order to run that configuration and maintain at least 5 Islands, again you didn't find that to hinder you at all?
Very rarely do I need to fetch a Synod over a Mox. Sometimes it could be helpful, but I've had my Synods blown up once too often in the recent past, and the addition of Back to Basics was the thing that pushed me over the edge. I absolutely didn't want to have any more than one Island that doesn't untap. To answer your question, yes, I've had the dual in play with B2B, but I still won since I was up against 4C landstill that couldn't produce mana for Pernicious Deed to save its life after B2B landed. Similar things happened against BW Pox (which ran Urborgs and Mishra's, thus making its manabase suspectible to B2B), but again, I won since I run Islands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Versus
Basically, one dual doesn't hurt me enough to usually lose my matches (yes, it's going to lose me one match at some point, but running it is going to win me many more before it so I'm willing to make the sacrifice) even if I do draw it and have B2B in since B2B is such a ridiculous bomb against the decks where it works. Heck, that's the reason I switched to B2B from Winter Orb in the first place; Orb wins if I have a clock. B2B just wins. No ifs.
Adding second land would be playing with fire though and as said, being artifact has been causing me more and more anguish recently as I've faced a large number of Deeds whenever I play the deck. I can beat decks packing Deeds, but losing lands to it basically means that I can't go with the 'force them to blow up one threat'-plan that normally works oh-so-well against sweepers, thus forcing me to try and Needle or Force it in some scenarios, which is far more difficult than having outs even with it in play. So basically, I'm finding one dual worth it, but Seat of the Synod isn't better enough compared to Chrome Mox for me to run it anymore especially since in many cases, I'll just fetch Sensei's Divining Top instead of an extra land to dig up for a land and try to keep me in business.
That's the answer I was hoping for. I've been hesitant to even try the 5 Island mana base (B2B notwithstanding) as the one Chalice version in and of itself is hard to wrap my head around. Still, the added versatility of EE regardless of the number of Chalices run MD (or taking advantage of Fetches with Top) is reason enough to go ahead with it.
Speaking of Chalice, I did try out you're latest list for a few games and actually loved how Top and the additional threats functioned in the deck, but then I switched back to 4. I guess I just chickened out. Truth is, even playing the deck for so short a time, you come to rely on Chalice even when it's not entirely necessary. It's great you were able to overcome that obstacle, especially being so close to the deck.
@VsTheWorld: congratulation for result.:laugh:
Anyone use mulldrifter in faerie stompy to either fill the slot of thirst for knowledge (draw) or maybe cloud of faeries (creature)? I tested it and it rocks. Comes down turn two no prob.
galeng: Many FS players have been using Drifter in place of TfK for some time now. I'm a fan myself.
Is this worth looking at? Instant speed, fits the curve, and gets around Chalice. Dealing combat damage should never be a problem so sacrificing instant speed for the ability to pay it's Prowl cost of U seems like a pretty solid way to dig. Also makes Top better.Quote:
Thieves' Fortune 2U
Tribal Instant - Rogue (C)
Prowl U
Look at the top four cards of your library. Put one of them into your hand and the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.
The only drawback I can see right off the bat is the Tribal type pumping opposing Goyfs.
You don't run that many Rogues. Pestermite is the only one, I think.
Ah crap. I was thinking Prowl could be paid as long as any creature dealt CD, not just a Rogue. Could have worked had it been Tribal Instant-Faerie Rogue. That way CoF AND Pestermite could have made Prowl more likely. Oh well.
How does this look?
Mana: 26
4 CIty
4 Tomb
4 C. Mox
4 Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Island
2 Swamp
Creatures: 22
4 Drake
4 Serendib
4 Moroii
4 Mulldrifter
3 Shriekmaw
3 Pestermite
Other: 12
4 Brainstorm
4 Force
2 Jitte
2 SoFi
Sideboard:
3 Chalice
3 Trinket Mage
3 Crypt
4 Plague
2 EE
The consistancy really hurt the deck, and now with the lack of true sligh/aggro chalice for 1 hasn't really done the work it should have. I've overloaded some extra mana and put in brainstorm along with only 4 equipment for better creatures. The only non-threat in the deck is pestermite and he at least flies and is only a 3 of.