So is flash being erratad before GP columbus? or are they just waiting until June first? or neither?
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So is flash being erratad before GP columbus? or are they just waiting until June first? or neither?
Maybe it could seem a bit earlier, but I'm starting to think of what will change in card choices if Flash Hulk (is this the final name of the deck?) will stay legal in Legacy:
a) Wastelands: they probably will not be played as much as now, because goblin won't be as viable as it is now and Flash is normally mono-blue
b) StP: Disciple combo is not stopped by this, and you will not need anymore an answer to turn 1 Lackey
Moreover, I'm thinking of what could help this deck to be much more resilient to the tons of hate that it will suffer:
a) Cutting Pacts: you will not auto-loose if something goes wrong
b) Adding again Caverns: you will be able to brainstorm / mystical (/disrupt / daze) in response to turn 1 hate.
With this things in mind, this is the decklist that I'm trying:
// No waste, no StP Legacy Meta Flash Hulk...
// Edited with +1 Summoner's Egg, -1 Island
// Lands
4 [TSP] Gemstone Caverns
1 [R] Tropical Island
1 [R] Underground Sea
2 [OD] Island
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [DIS] Protean Hulk
1 [CHK] Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 [SC] Carrion Feeder
1 [UL] Karmic Guide
1 [FD] Summoner's Egg
// Spells
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [MI] Mystical Tutor
4 [MI] Worldly Tutor // Summoner's Pact (1 Pact if you need to tutor it?)
3 [HL] Merchant Scroll
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze // Pact of Negation (1 Pact if you need to tutor a counter?)
4 [IN] Disrupt
1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
4 [MI] Flash
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [JU] Sylvan Safekeeper
SB: 1 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 4 [SC] Stifle
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
Note that I'm trying the Kiki, Karmic, Feeder combo so:
a) less dead slots
b) the second time that you sacrifice Protean you can search for kiki + one 1cc creature, so I've Sylvan Safekeeper (now in SB, maybe in MD)
c) I can still play Carrion (and Sylvan) if i draw them
What i wanted to say is that we are creating decklists thinking about a world of Wastelands, Rishadan's and answers to Lackey, but it will soon change...
What does it mean that Gatherer is indicating a May 20 date in the "format legality" field?
Flash
You should either include redundant copies of the win conditions so you don’t have to rely on Brainstorm to put them back or you can run Summoner's Egg or Body Snatcher as Illissius suggested. I would recommend 1 Carrion Feeder, 1 Karmic Guide, 1 Kikki Jikki, 1 Summoner's Egg. The egg can also be used in conjecture with feeder to simulate flash for Protean Hulk. You imprint Hulk with Carrion Feeder in play sack Summoner's Egg, sack hulk that comes into play go off. The risk of this win condition is that until Goblins decreases, there are tons of ways to disrupt this combo. For example Kikki Jikki copy on the stack kill the Karmic Guide and the combo shuts down. Even a Mogg Fanatic can stop the entire combo if you don't have redundant win conditions: flash hulk; get Karmic Guide, Carrion Feeder; get back the hulk and sacrifice it to Carrion Feeder with hulk trigger on the stack fanatic the Carrion Feeder you can now sacrifice the Karmic Guide and you then have to get a new Karmic Guide if you have one or you can get another Carrion Feeder if you have one. If you only have 1 of each you can't go off anymore.
It’s nice to have all the extra space generated by not running the disciple kill but with the current format you open yourself up to a lot of hate cards that don’t effect the other build as well the ones that do like leyline, mage etc…
No, actually, I think this deck is great for the format. See, I believe we've been living in a tier 2 meta for quite some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatulaOfTheAges
Also, serum visions < portent imho, especially if you *can't* go off turn 1, such as against blue decks.
This will not get punished before GP columbus, as summoner's pact and pact of negation won't be legal.
It means that this card is legal both before and after Future Sight is legal.
Pretty obviously another screwup when they uploaded it with Future Sight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
Yeah, I forgot about Summoner's Egg, now I'll add it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeee
As I said, this is a decklist that I will play after the metagame shift, (bye bye goblins :P)...
I think that in the future the 4 creatures combo will be the mostly used, so the deck will be stronger then now...
Proabably because on May 20, FS Becomes legal and Gatherer is updated to reflect that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
So you feel that it is ok that no other decks besides Hulk and hate decks are viable? A Tier 1 meta game does not exist in any constructed magic format. T1 even has its own tier 2 that can win some now and again. No offense but I would rather not play a format without diversity.Quote:
Originally Posted by laststepdown
This deck hasn't even been played in any numbers at competitive events so there is no actual proof that only this deck and hate decks are the only viable decks. Until FS comes out and people play this deck in large events nothing can be proven that this deck is the "end of the world". Yes it has serious potential to shake the format up but that might not be a bad thing. Yes this thing wrecks MWS, who cares most people (unless you specifically know them and know there good) are god awful on MWS.Quote:
So you feel that it is ok that no other decks besides Hulk and hate decks are viable?
It does, but the hulk player will never get that far into the combo because Leyline stops the hulk from triggering in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
I would state that Iggy-Pop with maindeck Leylines, Hulk Flash, and possibly Life From The Loam control with maindeck Children of Korlis present a new meta choice...Quote:
Originally Posted by overlord95
When Zilla says he's putting up good numbers with the deck and has a deck that beats it, I believe him. His testing suite is usually against the VA Crew, probably members of EPIC, and other good legacy players... So I'm not going to doubt his, Spat, IBA, etc... when they are talking about the power of the deck. The limited (hour or so) time that I've spent on MWS playing people has either been destroying them and getting cussed out, being told the combo doesn't work by a "level 3" judge and cussed out, the mirror match, or people going "wow I should build that."Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeee
I do believe this deck will be a force to be reckoned with, which is why I'm seriously hoping that on June or July 1st (whichever is the quarterly B/R Update), that the Hulk hits the list. I think the Karmic-Jeek combo is strong but more hate-able enough that it won't totally warp the format to Flash v. Anti-Flash... and might actually bring up the viability of a more traditional style control deck. That is my opinion and conjecture based upon the testing I have done. You guys are welcome to your own, but I'd start tuning your hate decks now.
This of course is all assuming that Wizards doesn't take the correct action and fix errata today. Otherwise, I think it's safe to say the sky is falling, and all the hard work people have put into deck building over the last year or so is going to waste.
This is by far the most degenerate combo to ever hit us.
I was looking over the T1 threads at various sights to see what they think of the new combo. It seams that basically all of them are thinking of
Flash + Academy Rector
Getting Yagmoth's Bargain and just winning from there.
Interesting to say the least. Someone on MTG.com also suggested hulk flash with this setup:
Academy Rector + Carion Feeder + Disciple + Shield Sphere/Ornithopter/Walker
getting Enduring Renewal and doing infinite damage.
It has the bonus of not needing the attack step like the kikki combo does.
Team Vroman/Ogre is all over this here, too. but their list is just ours with moxen and a lotus, and vamp tutor type stuff. no bargain or rector to be seen. funny thing is they're late...Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Gilmore
I would be foolish to not atleast mention this:
1. Flash ->Protean Hulk during end step
2. Protean Hulk -> Academy Rector, Carrion Feeder, Shield Sphere, Ornithopter, whatever.
3. Academy Rector sac to Carrion Feeder -> Day of the Dragons
4. Attack for, say 5 for each 0 artifact, and 5 for the Carrion Feeder next turn.
Not an instant kill, but it has the added benefit of being possible without a Protean Hulk in hand.
To everyone who has said any form of "This deck hasn't proven itself as being broken yet and is good for the format," you either haven't tested the deck and you lack any sort of decent analytical skills, or you have absolutely no idea what makes a healthy format.
My Gamekeeper Salvagers deck has been set aside for Hulk Flash (I only keep 6 decks.) Also, the rest of my decks have made the following changes:
Vial Goblins: 4 maindecked Leyline of the Void, 4 sideboarded STP (for Non-disciple Combos)
RGBSA: 4 Sideboarded Extirpates.
Landstill: 4 Sideboarded Extirpates, 4 Maindeck Stifles.
Faerie Stompy: 4 Sideboarded Trickbinds.
Solidarity: Still contemplating. Possibly some combination of Stifle and Gilded Light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
Akki, are you talking about a screwup in Gatherer? Because this is the way they've always posted new sets on Gatherer. The list of formats that Flash is legal in are as follows:Quote:
Originally Posted by Akki
May 20 Legacy, May 20 Vintage, Legacy, Vintage, Prismatic, Tribal Wars Classic, Singleton, Two-Headed Giant, Mirage Block
That means that it is legal in current Legacy and Vintage formats (Legacy, Vintage) and it will remain legal when Future Sight becomes legal (May 20 Legacy, May 20 Vintage).
All it means is that Flash is now legal, and will remain legal. Incidentally, it should shake up Two-Headed Giant play as well :wink: :wink: