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Pre-Ordian is terrible, Brainstorm is an incredible card with or without fetchlands, I don't know how many of you have played Lion's Eye Diamond based Storm Decks since Long's Burning Desire, but we've essentially never needed fetchlands to play Brainstorm then and we don't need them now ... altho' yeah it makes Brainstorm slightly better if you have them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dionykos
I don't deny the benefits of brainstorm obv. But brainstorming and not being able to combo off with the extra 3 cards + not being able to shuffle after that is the worst feeling in the world. It's not so much a problem in game 1 I would say, since we keep more explosive hands. But in game 2/3 where our hands are either less explosive (more protection) or are getting disrupted, this situation of poor brainstorming will happen. And not having a fetchlands in this cas sucks.
I played in a tourney for 3 underground seas saturday and ended up top 4ing. I played the list i always play http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1044439
It was 5 rounds 43 players and a cut to top 8.
Round 1 b/w pox 2-1
Game 1
I know what hes on so I turn 1 ad naus with mana floating and tendrils for well over lethal.
Game 2
I keep a turn 1 kill and get thoughtseized followed by hymn and never recover.
Game 3
Turn 1 he takes the wrong card with duress and i kill him shortly after.
I board in chains and echoing truth for a mox a burning wish and a ponder
Round 2 tes mirror 2-0
Game 1
I mull to 5 keeping gemstone city 2x silence duress
I win on turn 6 after anihilating his hand
Game 2
I mull to 6 and keep a rainbow land silence slow hand i win after he attempts to go off.
Sb:-1 burning wish +1 duress
Round 3 U/W miracle control 2-1
Game 1
He mulls to 5 i kill him on turn 2 when he flips vendi clique on counterbalance
Game 2
he assembles countertop lock and double force i lose quick.
Game 3
I keep my seven and play a long game where i burning wish 4 times to finally win with tendrils for exact lethal and having the mana to pay for double pierce epic match.
Sb:-1infernal -1 ponder -1 chrome mox +1 echoing truth +2 chain of vapor
Round 4 tes mirror again 2-1
Game 1
I kill him turn 1
Game 2
He kills me turn 2
Game 3
I bluffed not having silence in response to his iggy silence then kill on my turn
Round 5 U/W miracles ID
Quaterfinals RUG 2-1
Game 1
Kill on turn two with double silence
Game 2 lose to a bolt after ad naus (my fault I was at 4 and was trying to paly around spell pierce and got greedy flipped a wish)
Game 3
I get my land wasted then hold a delta for 8 turns while a delver beats me then I draw a city on Turn 5 of the wait and begin silencing first to pla around stifle
Sb:-1 wish +1 duress
Semifinals U/R sneak and show 0-2
Game 1
I got my chant misdirected and lost.
Game 2
I never drew a tutor after 4 cantrips and fetching
Notes
Pyroblast was bad all day should be xantid swarm.
2x ad naus is ridiculous still
Boarding in the 4th duress for 9 total protection was awesome all day
Burning wish seemed weaker than infernal most matches
I never used goblins all day
I only diminishing returned twice
All in all great tournament I won a box of avacyn restored and ripped a bonfire. The shop we were at had no judge and needed a printer but other than that was awesome.
Unfortunately I don't play Storm, so there's no way I can give a very fair evaluation about cards to play or not play for it. That said, I have been interested to know about Abrupt Decay's impact on the format, and I first thought that Storm might appreciate the card. It answers the resolved cards of Thalia, Teeg, and counterbalance, the three hate cards that see the most play right now. A single card hitting all of these hate strategies is not something I see any other card doing nearly as well.
Despite the versatility, discard to a certain respect can already answer these types of cards. However, there is always the possibility of your discard getting countered, so that's not always reliable. The first downside is the dual color requirements of :g::b:, but in this deck I think that's very doable, considering that black is a main color and Xantid Swarm sees play. A casting cost of two is very reasonable, and the fact that it's instant means it's more difficult for your opponent to play around, especially since there won't be a window to recast a legendary hate bear.
Again, not sure if this is something a deck like this would want, but I was curious what people who have played this deck a lot think about it.
Figured I would chime in after having played Probe. Made the deck significantly better. The math works out that you basically get to cut a land for a Ritual (adjusted percentages out of 56), which the deck really needed, and you get the perfect info aspect of ANT I always was a huge fan of. Unsure if I still miss the 2nd Ad Naus or not, but that's the only thing I would care about.
Abrupt Decay looks like a good fit.
It would probably replace Echoing Truth. Kills Chalice, Trinisphere, Counterbalance, Pyrostatic Pillar, and anything in Maverick.
I don't know if the mana cost would prohibit it. Krosan Grip was a card to run some time ago and this seems take the best parts of Grip and mix it with Echoing Truth.
I don't think this card will single handedly propel T.E.S. to a tier one deck. Counterbalance based decks will still suck to play against even with two or three Abrupt Decays, just a little less. But if Abrupt Decay sees enough play to deter people from maindecking Counterbalance as often as they do currently then T.E.S. could inadvertently benefit in that regard.
It seems like a great fit! The only card I can even think of bouncing that Decay doesn't hit is Lodestone Golem, but how often does that happen compared to counterbalance?Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
Someone in the ANT thread points out that Decay is pretty poor against Mother of Runes. Something to think about when designing a list updated for RTR.
Guess we'll just have to still use infest! Damn :/Quote:
Originally Posted by thefringthing
I don't know, I'm getting more and more sold on Dread of Night, 4 Judge's Familiar and 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben are a serious problem, we need a cost efficient sweeper that destroys all copies of Thalia, Familiar and MoM on the board and Dread of Night is the only 1cc sweeper that's conveniently immune to Familiar's tax as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
No fucking way you're resolving Burning Wish -> Infest vs Maverick post-expansion, at most you have Burning Wish -> Death Mark for Gaddok Teeg in your SB.
I think I'm playing something like,
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Deathmark
1 Shattering Spree
1 (Open, for me it's Bribery, you seriously need something other than Diminishing Returns or Empty the Warrens in the Sneak/Show or Reanimator match up and Past in Flames and Ill Gotten Gains do not cut it)
4 Dread of Night
4 Xantid Swarm
I don't think we can afford "catch all" answers like Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth in the SB anymore, Maverick is not exactly a bie for us at this point. I think Abrupt Decay is the kind of card you SB in if/when Counterbalance makes a comeback, but considering Abrupt Decay is going to have an effect on the presence of Counterbalance in the format to begin with I don't think we'll need to use it ourselves. Let B/g/x decks chase Counterbalance out of the metagame for us.
First things first, he was being sarcastic because of how dumb the previous comment was. Abrupt Decay is almost a strict upgrade over Echoing Truth in the sideboard. You know what else was sided in versus Maverick that is stopped by Mother of Ruins? Echoing Truth. But wait! There's still Karakas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
You're really worried about Judges Familiar? Sure man. Force Spike away.
Maverick is a cakewalk postboard, have you actually used my sideboard against them instead of those terrible Dread of Night's? The match-up is pretty easy when your sideboard is built properly.
Last thing, counterbalance has been back for months. It's called Miracle control.
It could be differences in metagames but I don't see Counterbalance in U/w control lists as much as other people claim to see them. Regardless, if Abrupt Decay and a B/g deck become a mainstay in the metagame I expect U/w control to either stop playing Counterbalance or start SBing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I'm not as confident vs Maverick post-board as you are, mainly because I've played vs the Judge's Familiar, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben decks and have had difficulty dealing with their tempo cards and their dedicated Storm hate at the same time. Say what you will abot Force Spike, if it tempos them into casting cards you really care about then it's a problem for us.
I've always thought Echoing Truth over Chain of Vapor or Deathmark was terrible, but I'll definitely play Abrupt Decay if/when I see Counterbalance in my metagame. Until then I see way too much Maverick to ignore it, and if I have to side in answers for hate bears, i.e. Thalia and CO, then I want them to be as cost efficient as possible. I know Dread of Night is incredibly narrow at what it does, but it does what it does incredibly well. I may end up ditching it for the 3xEmpty the Warrens and Thoughtseize plan, but for now I'm pretty happy with it.
Ah yes, because Judge's familiar is going to see TONS of play... Maverick doesn't have room for this almost worthless card considering they're still trying to add Militant. Dread of Night just isn't that great, Karakas and Decay are just better and more versatile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I done tested that. It ain't good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I'll take that bet, you'll see 4xJudge's Familiar in Maverick before you'll see 1xDryad Militant, you're seriously underestimating that card's impact on Maverick's bad matchups IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Obviously Abrupt Decay is more versatile, as far as Karakas I don't really use it as anything other than Thalia removal, it's about as narrow as Dread of Night altho' I wont begrudge that tapping for mana is pretty awesome.
Eh, we'll see how the metagame plays out, if Judge's Familiar falls by the way side I've wanted to try Death Pact for awhile.
What would you like to place on this wager? Money? Slaps? You name it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
mother of ruins to protect thaliaQuote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
mana excel into gsz for hate.
i'm gonna say judge is not going to see play in mav
sign me up for slaps
I'll bet any amount of money that dryad militant see's play in maverick before that crappy judge's familiar. I honestly don't see the big deal with judge's familiar, the card isn't that good. Cursecatcher is in ONE DECK. This is cursecatcher with flying, and guess what I don't care about the flying ability of the card. If the card had flash I could see a case being made for the card being solid in legacy as a force spike type card on wings but as soon as that card resolves the opponent will play around it and it will become a 1 mana 1/1 flyer, which isn't actually good in legacy (surprising I know.)
Personally I'd rather not face down dryad militant. That card is quite underrated right now, a 2/2 for G/W with an upside? So they put us on a faster clock and disrupt our PiF/IGG route completely unless we answer it. That card should be at least a zenith target in maverick if not a 2 or more of. I'll leave it to the maverick guys to figure out a list though as I don't play maverick for good reason.
Counterbalance is a thing. Abrupt decay's only disadvantage to e. truth is that it can't bounce multiple chalices or duplicate hate permanents and e. truth is castable off of all the lands in the deck.
TL;DR: Judge's familiar is bad.
Just sleeved up Bryant's newest list. Any tips?
Don't change it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
Good luck :)
Thanks, I may go to Jupiter Games tomorrow with his list. I was sold on Ubr Ant for awhile but that deck seems to durdle around more than my liking. I have tested and found out Dread of Night is not as good against Maverick then winning first or second turn. I was considering cutting one probe for a 4th fetch. Thoughts?
@ Bryant- AMAZING DECK
Thats what i run at the moment, i'm just too uneasy with 13 landsQuote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
the land count is what really got me. I know Bryant has this deck on mental lock. Meaning he knows the right numbers. For a low-middle T.E.S. pilot I feel a little more assurance with cutting a probe for a land. Is empty still worth it in the main over tendrills?
The main deck empty allows for you to use the drawn kill. so against rug you can just kill them with it instead of it being a mulligan. the probes all help with this as you don't have to go for ad nause.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
Now an Infernal Tutor with 4 floating is a turn one. It just makes the deck a whole turn faster which is sometimes enough.
I still may switch the probe for a fetch.
It also doesn't deal with Leyline of Sanctity. This is less of an issue with Empty maindeck over Tendrils, but Leyline does still screw up your Probes, Duresses, etc.Quote:
Abrupt Decay's only disadvantage to e. truth is that it can't bounce multiple chalices or duplicate hate permanents and e. truth is castable off of all the lands in the deck.
So should I cut a probe for a land?
You should do whatever is correct for your regional metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by lambert101
Don't cut the probe for a land.
Free info is king.
Bryant's stock list it is. Just got two Karakas for 120 so I'm ready.
Bryant, how do you feel about Therapy main over Duress? I've been testing it to great success. It opens a board spot, and it's crazy insane with Empty the Warrens.
I had the pleasure of playing against Lambert101 this weekend, I had lost my round one, then had to play against him round two. I was on Maverick, he was playing T.E.S. if he hadn't misplayed against me he probably would have won.
I'm still thinking Abrupt Decay is better than Echoing Truth despite the fact that it doesn't hit Leyline or Lodestone. Has anyone done testing with this card yet?
Quick recap from Jupiter. Went 2-x. Haven't played legacy since May. Overall list was would. MVP was cabal therapy. Board plans were amazing and decay is something that should be strongly considered.
I wrote a long post, then I came into the conclusion that it's too complicated to decide whether Decay is worth running over Echoing Truth or not without test results, so I deleted the worthless content.
Abrupt Decay will see play in some decks and that will work in our favor, that much is pretty safe to say.
I've been doing a bit of testing, and it seems that you want the 13th land back in to hit the color requirements. That could have just been the small number of games I played, but I did have a bit of difficulty casting it, especially if you naturally draw the volcanic. I have not, however, done any testing against lodestone golem or leyline, they don't seem that important to prepare for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Question regarding dropping Tendrils from the maindeck in favor of EtW:
If one plays more often than not against decks that win in a quick manner, would swapping ToA for EtW be the thing to do? Just trying to understand the thought process behind both lines of play.
I would still run ETW over TOA. ETW is still never a dead draw where TOA is, it can always be sided out.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Empty won me almost all of my games at Juipter this weekend. The only time where I wanted Tendrils was against Miracles, Stoneblade, and Nic Fit. Most decks can't deal with an empty for 8-12 turns 1-2.
TES by Matt Juszczak
He just won his top 8 and is in top 4!
Not an hour ago it was listed as AnT, and I was boredQuote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook