[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

I found quite some article, czech it out.
Even without Google Trance, the price tables are interesting.

2001 CZK : USD = 40 : 1
2013 CZK : USD = 20 : 1

I recall there was a jump in Ports after Enevoldsen won with D&T at Strasbourg last year. I don't see any real reason for Ports to be going up so suddenly now though even with the slight uptick in Lands decks.

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Originally Posted by Arsenal

As someone who purchased Ports back in 2006/2007 for my Goblins deck, all I can say is WTF is happening. There's no way that the ever-so slight uptick in Lands/Jund Depths play is resulting in this astronomical increase. D&T isn't being played anymore than it has been over the last two years, in fact, it may be seeing even less play post-TNN. I just hate the economics of Magic so much.

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Being a player just returning, I am glad to see a longtime current player make the exact comment I was thinking after reading the Spec/Spike thread on Reddit (sure there were others). Doesn't matter if it is Wasteland, Stoneforge, Bitterblossom, Threads of Disloyalty, Noble Hierarch, Fetch Lands, Duals, Rishadan Port, Grove of the Burnwillows, Cabal Therapy, etc.

I often see the same explanation regardless of whether or not a perfectly reasonable explanation exists: "price correction on an old card" or "buyout undervalued in demand card" -- It makes sense for several of the cards listed, and some of it is due to modern season/unbannings, but doesn't explain all of them.

Cabal Therapy is the most glaring example of nonsense. From what I understand it was a glitch on TCGPlayer causing only foil prices to be shown. Wish I could find the link where I read about the glitch.

I know SCG raised prices across the board on Legacy staples. I also noticed (when last I looked) they kept a lot of their buy prices exactly the same.

I don't have any problems with SCG raising prices and setting them how they see fit. If they can sell cards at higher prices, more power to them.

SCG has spent time and money to build their reputation and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to profit from it.

If people are unwilling to pay the listed price then the market will make that known to sellers.

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Originally Posted by danyul

How much does a Magic card have to be worth in order for it to be worth more than its weight in gold?

And how does that number change when we take foils into account? (Because foils are slightly heavier)

I probably could have Googled that, but it's more fun to ask here.

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Originally Posted by Koby

At $100 for a piece of cardboard, you're now paying more per unit than for solid 24ct Gold. Keep that in mind.

100 ct Magic Cards = 0.4 British pounds * 16 oz / 1 British pound * 0.911458333 troy oz / 1 oz = 5.833 troy oz

Gold @ $1,655 / troy oz

100 ct Magic cards = $9654.17
1 ct Magic cards = $96.54

Query on TCGplayer (1/25/2013) - Tarmogoyf H: $129.99 M: $110.98 L: $97.00
FACT: Goyf is worth more than its weight in Gold.

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While that calculation is old and based upon Gold @ $1655 per troy oz, the result is still absurd. MTG cards worth >$94 are more valuable than their own weight in gold today (@ $1324/troy oz)

Koby quotes ain't nothin to fuck with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opbUESNnCe0&feature=kp

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

I don't have any problems with SCG raising prices and setting them how they see fit. If they can sell cards at higher prices, more power to them.

SCG has spent time and money to build their reputation and I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be able to profit from it.

If people are unwilling to pay the listed price then the market will make that known to sellers.

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Would like to clarify that I don't have any issue with singles pricing either, just in case it came off that way. Just because I think an asking price is insane doesn't mean they can't ask it or people won't pay it.

Honestly, I have never been part of a hobby for any amount of time where there hasn't been a dealer priced well above the market. They have hard to find stuff in amazing condition and a small possibly wealthier subset of the collectible community is willing to pay through the nose. Some dealers specialize in paying ridiculous prices and selling at more ridiculous prices. Admittedly this evidence is purely anecdotal and probably completely wrong :laugh:

Rishadan port is approaching blue dual land prices .... Wtf

Anyone think this is a bubble and will burst?

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Originally Posted by apple713

Anyone think this is a bubble and will burst?

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No. Vintage shows us that the ceiling is much, much higher. In Vintage, the collectible nature of power adds to the prices because players are competing with collectors to some degree, and the format has a much smaller population of players than Legacy. In Legacy, the price is driven more by headcount than collecting. People don't treat Force of Wills like Moxes, so there are more in circulation even after accounting for the much-higher FOW print run. Some people like to say that Legacy is pricing newcomers out, but there are a lot of folks who are showing themselves to be undeterred by higher prices. Just as an example, my LGS had 40 people last night for its basic weekly. That's pretty incredible. That's double the average from two years ago. Among the players was some little kid -- who couldn't have been more than 14 years old -- who told me that he has been systematically trading his Standard cards up into dual lands, and that he is closing in on a playset. Legacy has roughly doubled in price because way more people are playing the format now. Also, it's important to note that prices have increased across the board because more people are playing Magic, whether that's tournament Magic or kitchen table Magic.

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Originally Posted by apple713

Rishadan port is approaching blue dual land prices .... Wtf

Anyone think this is a bubble and will burst?

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Depends on how long people think a couple grand is ok for a Legacy deck.

I can only speak for myself, but Legacy is completely unaffordable to me right now. Mind you, I make a decent living, but 2-3k on a good Legacy deck is nuts.

I've definitely been priced out of the format.

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Originally Posted by Mr.C

Depends on how long people think a couple grand is ok for a Legacy deck.

I can only speak for myself, but Legacy is completely unaffordable to me right now. Mind you, I make a decent living, but 2-3k on a good Legacy deck is nuts.

I've definitely been priced out of the format.

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Likewise, and having spent the equivalent of a Tier 1 deck on home repairs in one sitting, I can't see how people consider this to be affordable.

There are certainly people who make not be deterred by the high prices. I can't imagine getting into Legacy at this time with an expectation of being able to play whatever deck I want, and I joined up when Underground Sea could still be bought for $80, and fetchlands were $20. This current trend is unsustainable.

For fuck's sake - we're comparing price of singles to their weight in gold. We're beyond the realm of normal hobbies and into luxury items now.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Likewise, and having spent the equivalent of a Tier 1 deck on home repairs in one sitting, I can't see how people consider this to be affordable.

There are certainly people who make not be deterred by the high prices. I can't imagine getting into Legacy at this time with an expectation of being able to play whatever deck I want, and I joined up when Underground Sea could still be bought for $80, and fetchlands were $20. This current trend is unsustainable.

For fuck's sake - we're comparing price of singles to their weight in gold. We're beyond the realm of normal hobbies and into luxury items now.

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This is so true. There were a handful of cards I needed to get to finish off 2-3 legacy decks... I've decided to sell off the pieces I had since there is no way I'm going to drop what is required to grab the small handful of cards left. I can't believe how expensive they've gotten recently, it's unrealistic.

It's funny but my friends all play casual, the only reason I played legacy was for nostalgia. I ended up selling my cards and buying a vintage doomsday deck because it was cheaper.

Sure, its more expensive than playing settlers, but less expensive than hookers and powerboating, as far as hobbies go.

If i ever quit, im not taking up boardgames...

People bitch and complain how the Reserve List drives up the prices, yet all cards of D&T are 100% reprintable. 100%!

It's just Wizards being dicks with speculators and market manipulators doing the rest.

In the same manner in which rabble-rousers contact Mark Rosewater and Aaron Forsythe on design-related matters, to whom would one write regarding Reserved List/reprint/financial health of the game matters? Who has ze power and authoritah?

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Originally Posted by Koby

For fuck's sake - we're comparing price of singles to their weight in gold. We're beyond the realm of normal hobbies and into luxury items now.

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I don't disagree, but let's also remember that there's a Pimp Legacy Decks thread (right below this thread, amusingly), and those decks are clearly way more expensive than the average Legacy 75. There are also a lot of different posters in that thread; it's not just nedleeds and sdematt sharing pictures of their finery.

Until last year I used to be in the camp for the reserve list. For me, accessibility has always been an important aspect of the game. So I thought it was OK and a natural part of Magic to have to work your way towards the deck you want to play. I had my journey when collecting my staples, it was a fun and rewarding process in itself. I didn't agree with people who thought they were entitled to get the deck they want, when they want. I still think that collectibility is an important aspect of the game, but I also think that it is fucking out of control now. A line has to be drawn somewhere. If I were to start from scratch now, probably I wouldn't do it. It's just way too expensive, too daunting.

Bitching is fine.
Finding a solution is better.

I am only human :)