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That's what I'd answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamb
Man, I haven't played in a fucking month now. Stupid Life.
Someone write a tournament report or something so I can get a feel for how things are going for Goblins. Bonus points if you actually manage to use a silly piece of sideboard to steal a game or two.
Actually, i don't even need a tournament report. Someone just needs to write about playing against OmniTell WITH sideboard. How effective are O-Rings, how many do you run, what do they run as answers to your answers, what sily SB cards NOT named Confusion in the Ranks have you tried?
Anyone with tales of blowing out Thresh and Mav with Krenko activations also gets bonus points.
I'm about the same =/Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Edit: For me, the bonus points is goes to winning some game due to Rakdos Charm!
Goblin ringleader / Goblin matron to get a stingscourger is actually pretty good against show and tell, provided they don't drop omniscience, if they drop that then even if you could bounce an emrakul or griselbrand, it just comes back into play anyway.
Hey, I already chose not to write a report and threw my notices away, but if everyone here wants to read one, I'll try to remember, what happend :)
I played the Big Legacy Tournament at Ovino 7 in Milan and went 5:3 drop.
450 Player - 9 Rounds + Top16
I thought a lot about the splash color:
no Green, because I want to have something against Combo, i hate unwinnable matches
no White, because I want to run Goblins, not Thalias and i want an answer to combo on the first turn
no Black, because I am not able to play Cabal Therapy in a way, that makes it worth running
soooo blue it was
My List:
4 Vial, Lackey, Gemplalm Incinerator, Piledriver, Warchief, Matron, Ringleader
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Stingscourger, Tuktuk Scrapper, Sharpshooter, Skirk Prospector, Chieftain, Krenko, Siege-Gang-Commander
2 Volcanic, 2 Port, 4 Waste, 4 Cavern, 4 Mountains, 6 Fetches
Wanted to run 3 Ports, but 8 blue sources were better in my opinion
SB: 4 Pyrokinesis, 4 Spell Pierce, 1 Tuktuk, 3 Surgical Extraction, 2 Relic of Progenitus, 1 Pyroblast
The Meta exposed to be very Goblin and RUG heavy, but once i have my list, i don't change it until the tournament is over.
First Round: Goblins
The player was very new to the Format, it was his 2nd Legacy Tournament, so I won the first game by experience (when i destroy a vial with Tuktuk, in response he puts a matron into play, then immediatly puts the Vial into Grave :S) so no card advantage for him.
In: 4 Pyrokinesis
Out: 4 Lackey
In Game 2 I had 3 Pyrokinesis and 3 Ringleader against 3 Ringleader, 3 Chieftain and a Krenko. Close one!
1:0
Second Round: Maverick
Game 1: Turn 1 Mother (I have no answer), Turn 2 Mother, Turn 4 Linvala, then big dudes. (If he hadn't Linvala i wouldve won, but she stops sharpshooter and Prospector :< )
In: 4 Pyrokinesis
Out: 1 Lackey, 1 Chieftain, 2 Piledriver
Game 2 I mull to 5: Turn 1 Mother (no answer), Turn 2 Hierarch, Turn 3 Linvala, followed by Big dudes inkluding Terravore. Couldve won with Krenko, but Linvala Stops him, too.
1:1
3rd Round: RUG
Game 1 I manascrew him with a Port and a Wasteland, have Caverns, Moggs buy time, somehen i get an Aether Vial online, Piledrivers finish him off, when hes at 0 hand cards and 1 Turn away from winning.
In: 2 Relic of Progenitus
Out: 1 Tuktuk Scapper, 1 Sharpshooter
Game 2 I have Caverns again, he helpes me by attacking with a 1/1 Goose into my Matron, I get rid of a Delver and resolve a Vial, he Rough/Tumbles me, but I recover with Ringleader and get the final strike with Chieftain feat. Krenko tokens.
2:1
4th round: UW Miracle
„Yes! A favourable matchup!“ and that was when i got sloppy...
Please never make that mistake, always be concentrated and thinkful :)
The first game was classic UW-Miracle against Goblins, I run for a bit dmg, get Terminated, ignore a Jace and kill him.
In: 4 Spellpierce
Out: 1 Stingscourger, 1Sharpshooter, 2 Gempalm Incinerator
One Word here: I tried Surgicals against this matchup and sometimes i had removed his Swords, but hadn't enaugh Goblins to kill him. I took a look at our tactic and decided i wanted to board just against Moat/Humility.
The second game he was able to stabilize and when the clock got nearer to the end of our game i got greedy and tapped me out of blue Mana so he was able to Entreat me for lethal (he waited for that until he was nearly dead).
The last game I was saying something like: lets play fast, we don't have so much time left... stupid me, a draw would've been better^^
So he gets to stabilize again, while i was running out of goblins, he got jace online and drew a ton of extra cards.... i was very cautious and attacked to less heavy, he had terminus in hand, but long time no brainstorm, till he resolved that jace he couldve been dead 2 times....
Soooo I drew a ton of lands and in the 3rd Extraturn he entrats for 5 Angels, while I'm on 17 with a Piledriver in Play. I get the Matron (finally) for chieftain. He's on 4 so he has to Block the Piledriver .
Yay, draw, im in the control-bracket :D
NOPE his deck said, when he topdecks a single random Sulfur Elemental xDD
2:2 and Out of Top 16 :(
But... top32 is still a plan, so I'll go on, 'till I loose once more.
Round 5: RUG
Same boarding as in the other RUG-Match. I mana-screw him, resolve an aether vial and win in both games. We tried 2 more games, where i smashed him, too (with little tricks like: in his turn tapping his only red source, go to combat and then waste it to be able to avoid stifle → win)
Some words to the RUG Matchup: What you need is either one of 2 things, both in best case: Lands and Vial. A good friend and incredibly good legacy player (Mon, Goblin Chief) said: If he would have 2 Sideboard spaces just for the RUG-Matchup, it would be 2 Basic Mountains^^
If you can put your creatures into play you just win, if you cut them of a color, while your Vial ticks up, you win easy :)
3:2
Round 6: Dredge
First game... well... it's dredge.
In: 3 Surgical Extractions, 2 Relic of Progenitus.
Out: Sharpshooter, Stingscourger, Tuktuk, 2 Mogg war Marshal
Some words: I completely dislike the Echo-guys to get rid of bridges. If the Dredge player knows what he's doing, he'll take full value of his bridges before the upkeep trigger and then you're just dead. Thats why i want to have instand-Speed bridge removers aka. Gemplam Incinerator to kill my own guys.
In game 2 he boards Nature's Claim and i have 2 Surgicals for his Ichorids and Narcomoebas → win.
Game 3 got a little bit grindy, 1 have 1 Surgical in starting hand, he gets 2 Narcomoebas, because it takes time to find the 2nd one. But somehow i can deal with all his stuff and extract the Moebas he used to reanimate a Troll. But now he has that 3/1 ghoul or whatever this thing is, too, but somewhen I removed the bridges with an Incinerator in response to a Bridge trigger, cycled the ghoul away and ran through the 13/13 Gravetroll into my win :)
4:2 keep it going babe...
Round 7: Reanimator
I never had problems beating reanimator anyway, but that games were a bit to easy. In game 1 Cavern + Stingscourger + Oops, the Creature is now in my hand and not in my graveyard and I just casted an Exhume after i thoughtseized a Ringleader in Turn 1 um... won.
In: 3 Surgical, 2 Relic
Out: Sharphooter, Tuktuk, 3 Incinerator
I resolve a Turn 1 Relic, he has no answers and folds to the 2nd one a few turns later.
5:2... theres still a chance for Top32 :D
Round 8: UW Miracle
yes... my 2nd relevant loss after wich i dropped was against our most loved Matchup, too.
In Game 1 he has Swords, Snapcaster swords → blew me out
followed by Jace, 2Terminus and a Batterskull... spit happens.
In: 4 Spellpierce
Out: Stingscourger, Sharpshooter, 2 Incinerator
I was to greedy and shocked how the last UW-Matchup went, so i tried to get a fast kill.... wrong decision! He wants a jace and 1 have a pierce.... i played it... greedyness your name is Asgar X___x
Okay, i was pretty tired after 7 rounds of magic and regreted it immediatly, but played is played, so I went on, pretending to have a clue what I'm doing.
But so he sees im on blue and casts his Humility with 6 or 7 Mana open, followed by a Batterskull, so i died.
Yeah so i got out of the prices, dropped and went to my hotel to get some sleep before my trip home to Germany.
Conclusions:
Never turn your brain of against „easy“ matchups!
5 Graveyard hate is wonderfull!
Milan is a wonderfull city, but full of prols xD
I want Krosan Grips, Oblivion Rings or at least Chaos warps!
Thx 4 reading, i hope you were able to read it, even if my spelling and some phrases are horrible xD
Thanks for writing. Nice report. Too bad seeing you lose to UW twice, since it's a notable favorite mu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgar
I agree against Canadian, where Vial and Lands are the most important things to have. GobboLord has pointed out in his test that winning without Vial is very, very tuff, and I stand by it.
I'm curious about SBing against Dredge. I really like Shooter in there. It makes killing zombies a lot easier, makes Ichorid and Narcobemas crie, and usually is an instant speed permanent Bridge removal. I also bring in a number of Pyrokinesis, since it has some of those applications too, while clearing for Lackey quite nicely.
Hey folks,
I have 3 points to make.
(1)
I attended a tournament today. My performance was a quite solid 5-1. I will share my report/insights with you as soon I'm finished with writing.
(2)
On the basis of a decklist designed by jrw1985 and insights I gained from intellectual exchanges with ScatmanX I have 2 decklists in mind that I couldto play on the next tournament (Dutch Legacy Championship). The decklist should feature the following cards: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Rakdos Charm and Earwig Squad
The cards written in RED reveal the differences between the decklists.
LIST#1
Lands [22]
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
6 Fetchlands
5 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Badlands
1 Karakas
Core [20]
...
Others [18]
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Mogg War Marshal
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Stingscourger
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (can't tell you how much I hate that guy)
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Earwig Squad
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
LIST#2
Lands [22]
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
6 Fetchlands
5 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Karakas
Core [20]
...
Others [18]
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Mogg War Marshal
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Earwig Squad
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
(3)
Lastly:
Update Notes
October 6th 2012
* added Rakdos Charm to "To-be-tested" cards
* added a note on Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in the Combo-hate section
* updated the testing-results on Krenko, Mob Boss
Is Karakas really that good that you'd even play it in the list without Thalia? I don't own a copy and have no idea...
What do you bring Earwig Squad in against?
In your white list, is Oblivion Ring better than Squad? It is reactive (Squad is more proactive) but it answers... everything.
Edit: And have you considered Rest in Peace over LotV?
I'd go with the first build if you expect a heavy combo meta. I do think the Rakdos Charm build is more interesting because artifact and graveyard hate are always relevant, and the additional trick with Lackey makes it worthwhile. However, you are being too greedy with your lack of black mana source. I suggest:
- 1 Mountain
- 1 Mogg War Marshal
+ 1 Badlands
+ 1 Fetchland
Asgar, thanks for the report! Also, regarding with the O. Ring / K. Grip / C. Warp comment, I really do not like Chaos Warp. One of the MU's that you want to bring in Chaos Warp is Mono-White Stax against Humility / Moat. The problem is the 30% of there deck are lock-pieces, many of which are redundant, so Chaos Warp does not really let you escape from the good lock. Against Miracle decks with Moat, they will most likely be stacking up counterspells because we make them useless, and Chaos Warp is actually one of the few spells that they can counter, so it is not a good solution in this MU either. Krosan Grip is probably our best bet. Oblivion Ring is also good because it can target Planeswalkers. If you want a mono-red solution, I'd go with Anarchy.
I do not know about Goblins but RIP has been spectacular in my mono-white soliders deck. A turn 2 LotV has not too slow in any of the games I have played so far. It is possibly the single greatest grave hate because if unanswered, it just destroys Dredge, Reanimator, RUG, and Loam decks. The problem with goblins is that you need that turn 2 white source, which may be an issue.Quote:
And have you considered Rest in Peace over LotV?
That was a fun read, Asgar. Thank you very much. Too bad about the Miracles losses. I've only had a chance to play against them once so far, and lost pretty badly too. Live and learn, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgar
One of the cool things about Goblins is that difficult MUs become better and better after a little practice. The meta keeps shifting, new cards get printed, but Goblins just keeps being a solid deck that gets better once we (Goblins players) learn how to play against difficult decks.
Keep those reports coming. And we're all glad to have you posting on the Source.
Krenko + Karakas is also really hard for a lot of decks to answer. That's on top of Karakas + Thalia. Plus, karakas can be randomly useful in matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
http://magiccards.info/scans/en/v12/10.jpg
I attended a 44-players tournament yesterday, finishing 5th with 5-1 after 6 rounds.
Usually this is the place where you can find some funny story about a roadtrip or other magic-unrelated things. However, I want to tell you something else here:
Friday, October 5th.
On the same day at ~9.00 p.m.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
After a short while…Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
So be it. I tookt the list to the tournament in Dortmund, only changing 1 Sharpshooter for 1 SGC in MD.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Round 1: Michael with R_Goblins
In game 1 I kept a hand without R sources but I had 2 Aether Vials and some guys to bring in. Michael started with Mountain, Go. I played my first Vial out of a Rishadan Port. On T2 Michael dropped a Goblin Tinkerer. Wow, that guy will eat my Vials. On my T2 I drew another Vial from the top, dropping my second and third on this turn. The rest was much like him having more meat than me, while not being able to keep my Vial somehow set me back a few turns – all this in a MU that is very close to begin with. Oh, and he ran Pyrokinesis in MD which also gave him an advantage.
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis
OUT: 3 Thalia
Game 2 ended quicky after he couldn’t handle my Lackey.
Game 3 ended after I couldn’t handle HIS Lackey.
Round 2: Lars with GW_Maverick
In both games some sloppy play from his side helped me win the game. I sided in Oblivion Rings, which sat on my hand the whole game, because his Sylvan Safekeeper would just shrug them off. At least I think that it works this way…
Round 3: Nick with GWr_Maverick
Krenko won me a quite close G1 after Nick surprised me with a topdecked Elspeth that suddenly turned his KotR into a Supreme Exemplar.
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis, 4 Oblivion Ring
OUT: 3 Thalia, 4 Goblin Lackey
In game 2 I traded a Wasteland, a Pyrokinesis and a (pitched) Warchief for a Savannah, Mother of Runes and Noble Hierarch, leaving both of us with only a basicland in play and 4 cards on our hand. However, I know that Maverick recovers quite slowly from this kind of plays – and it worked.
After that game he showed me that he splashed R for Huntmaster of the Fells. I liked the idea since this card forces your opponents into the uncomfortable position of not being able to see what impact he has on the game. This in turn is an invitation for bad plays, which I really like…
Round 4: Tobias with UWb_Miracles
On game 1 I resolved Vial on T1 and had Lackey, Piledriver and Warchief doing some beatdown, backed up by Ringleader and Matron on my hand. Thalia also did a good job of pushing some damage through after my first wave was cleared with Terminus and the second was cump-blocked by Entreat the Angels.
IN: nothing
OUT: nothing.
In game 2 he took mulligan to 4 while I kept my 5. The game took quite a while, because he had n Engineered Plague on turn 3. He was in such an uncomfortable position that 4 Termini took down only 8 Goblins in total. However I won after chaining Ringleaders. Oh, and Thalia also helped here, since she’s unaffected by Plague :-P
Round 5: Wolfgang with RUG_Not-Thresh
Wolfgang’s list was RUG with most accent on the “R”. That became clear when I saw that he had multiple Chain Lightnings, Lightning Bolts and Grim Lavamancers. I had very strong draws in both games and he didn’t have much to respond to that. In game 1 I had 3 Thalias in row, one of which ate a 1/2 Tarmogoyf.
Round 6: Markus with BUG_Rouge.deck Report
Markus turned out to be a very friendly and quiet opponent. However I want to point out that I won 2 very close games. In game 1 Deathrite Shaman turned out to be a largely underestimated card. When I was at 10 life he suddenly resolved a second copy of it. Luckily I managed to remove his guys when I was on 1 life.
In game 2 I got hosed by Planeswalker Lilly and was then caught off guard by Jitte (which I was able to race).
So, I went home with a Maze of Ith, From-the-Vault-style. Also I managed to beat every opponent (apart from the first one) with 2-0. I had 1 close game (against GWr Maverick) and 2 very close games (Round 6).
Here are my conclusions for that day:
+ Thalia is a bitch.
I really like what she did. She’s like the card that NO deck other than Maverick and Goblins wants to see resolving. At her worst she’s “only” a blocking 2/1-friststriker. After my last tournament I said that I want to give my opponents as few possibilities to interact with me as possible. Thalia does just that: she restricts (not: prohibits) interactions. I like her and I feel that 3 is the right number. Thanks to jrw1985 – without whom I would probably not have given her a shot.
+ Rouge strategies
yesterday my opinion on rouge-strategies was somehow confirmed. I think that legacy players are too much focused on what they are familiar with. You can lead players into making misplays and/or being uncertain about your strategy – which can give you an huge advantage. I can’t express HOW important it is to create your deck in and UNEXPECTED but still COMPETITIVE way. The is a very hard thing to achieve!
Examples for this would be: the BUG rougedeck I faced, having Angel of Despair in your SB, playing Thalia in MD, doing tricks with Rakdos Charm. We should definitely keep this up.
+ having only 2 Piledrivers was acceptable.
However, they were match winners in some games, so my default would always be to keep him as a 4-off if I don’t have other cards that make up for this lost aggro-potential.
+ 4 MWMs is just the correct number.
was absolutely glad to draw this guy at ANY time of the game and I don’t think that we should run less than 4 right now.
+ 4 Gempalm Incinerators
I forgot how sick they are. For the past few tournaments I always had only 3, but 4 is just what we want.
- Rishadan Ports were underperforming again
jrw1985 told me that they were supposed to help out in the combo MUs (Stormcombo as well as S&T-combo-decks). I didn’t face those decks, so their value might indeed be revealed only in those MUs. However, in those MU I played I found them either redundant or even disturbing. Them being another Waste-able target is NOT a real deal, because opposing Wastelands will in most cases hit our Cavern of Souls. The issue with additional non-basiclands in our deck is that that they don’t produce R mana. So in my opinion we should not be hesitant to run greedy manabases with like 5-6 duallands and only a handful of Mountains – however, we should be careful with running too many colorless manasources.
- same goes for Oblivion Rings
They were quite horrible against the decks I faced. They were dedicated S&T hate – a deck that I didn’t face that day. However, I learned that they are probably not worth boarding in the other MU, so we might just was well play Confusion in the Ranks or Angel of Despair. (fun fact: the tournament winner had 3 CitRs in hos SB and he won a match against OmniTell with their help). I personally do not want to spar DEDICATED SB slots on this MU, so my answer would be Earwig Squad.
That’s it for now. Thanks to Jon for the decklist. Thanks to my fellow Warchief for reading my report. Comments are – as always –appreciated.
GL
Rakdos charm seems really promising I look forward to try it out. It answers jitte and combo which are the biggest problems. The trick with lackey makes it just more appealing. Splashing black opens the never ending story of earwig squad. I keep try playing with it and it always seems bad. Which bad MUs does he help? combo decks are just too fast, especially on the draw i d rather play chalice of the void or a discard spell.
thank you GL for the report, nice read as always. I m getting more and more incline to think that we need something more to do on turn 2. MWM and piledrivers are not enough most of the times. I feel like we need some non-goblin help in the form of thalia, chalice or rakdos charm.
Thank you Gobolord for your report. I have some questions though:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
1) how did Karakas perform? Did you see it often or do you think it could be replaced by some other land?
2) do you think that using white also justify using disenchant?
3) in earlier posts you mentioned some md removal (something like Pyrokinesis for example), did you missed md removal (besides Gempalm)this tournament?
Once again; congrats with your finish!
@Asgar and GoboLord: Good job on your finishes and reports.
I am really happy with my Rg-list so far, with MD TSH and Grips in the board. But I really have to try a Rw list with Thalia.
My question would be if it was any problem to cast pyrokinesis or O-ring after Thalia was on the board?
The thing about o-ring is, as good as it is vs. Omniscience as bad is it as general hate. For sure it could take care of a Moat/Humility but it can be countered and it can be dealed with (disentchant...). In terms of interactions I clearly see Grip above o-ring.
I'd like to hear some opinions on that...
For the omniscience MU Grip is hardly worth boarding-we need dedicated SB slots for that and I think Archangel is a suitable solution as a 2-3 off.
Round 1: Michael with R_GoblinsQuote:
Originally Posted by BigBopper
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis
OUT: 3 Thalia
Round 2: Lars with GW_Maverick and Round 3: Nick with GWr_Maverick
IN: 3 Pyrokinesis, 4 Oblivion Ring
OUT: 3 Thalia, 4 Goblin Lackey
I think that you are right about Oblivion Ring: it's only a dedicated hate against Omniscience - and if that what you want you can just as well play Angel of Despair or Confusuion in the Ranks...However, I'm not willing to dedicate 3-4 slots of my SB only to this MU. My answer to them would be Earwig Squad + Thalia + being more consistant than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBopper
Thanks for the report there. You said Ports under-performed, but why is that? The Wastelands continued to be awesome?
I think I agree with you on O.Ring, and will try other cards against the SnT mu.
Also, what about changing your sig to "Caverns, Lackey, Go." =D
@Ace: Right now in my Rb build, I bring in Squad against UW Miracle, Esper/UW Blade, Goblins, SnT (and other combos), Enchantress, BuG, Lands, and am trying to figure out if it is better than what I already have against RuG (removing 3 of their 12 win conditions, while having a 5/3 is quite nice, OR, even better, combine it with a Wasteland and you can shut them down of R o G mana)
On a different subject, lets assume you're playing Rb goblins against Know and Tell, you lost G1 to SnT> Omni> Grizzle T4.
You open a hand of Badlands, Port, 2x Mountain, MwM, Warchief and Cabal Therapy. (I'd keep that)
- Do you Cabal T1? if yes, what do you name?
I'm leaning towards naming Brainstorm, because it's a great card and can fuck up your flashback next turn. I'm also inclined to play it T1 blind, since you want to spend all your mana for the next 2 turns. What would you call?
- You play cabal, miss seeing Burning Wish, Ponder, Intuition, 3 lands (mull to 6). He draws, Ponder and pass. You draw Ringleader. What do you do? MWM into Cabal? If so, what do you name?
Thanks.
Dammit, you're probably right. Earwig removing Omni or SnT or Emrakul is probably better than O-Ring. If you can land Earwig before they cast SnT you're basically able to look through their deck and surmise what is in their hand and the line of play they need to take to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
First off, if they have 4 Omni in the deck (0 in hand) take 3 Omni. Stingscourger can answer a SnT Emrakul or Griz that doesn't have Omni backup.
If they have 1 Omni in hand and 1 Wish/SnT in hand things get trickier...
If they have SnT, Omni, Wish you lose to the Wish SB. Sorry. You'd better hope you land a Thalia before they can go off.
If they have SnT, Omni, beast then you'd better take their Wishes to keep them from Wish-boarding you. You're going to have to race the beast.
And, like I said, if they don't have Omni in hand just try to strip the Omnis from the deck. You have answers to their Beasts.