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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ulysse95
I would disable 2 or 3 of the bigshots (along thrag/rhinos/Sorin) to put in 3 inquisition of Kozilek or thoughtseize. Which would really help you against ANT MD and synergize a lot with our cabal.
I too feel like having 4 Rhinos + Thragtusk is a tad excessive. I'd either replace a couple Rhinos with CA engines like Tracker/Meren (Meren lets you recycle Rhinos, so that is a simple replacement really), or anti-combo stuff like Thoughtseize/Surgical/Glen Elendra or even Notion Thief if you are up to feeling spicy.
Are you really just slamming them or using GSZ to put down more than two Rhinos? I'd think at that point you GSZ for Atraxa or have more mana to get Dromoka.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
Are you really just slamming them or using GSZ to put down more than two Rhinos? I'd think at that point you have another mana to GSZ for Atraxa or another to get Dromoka.
If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.
Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.
Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.
Ok I might grant you that. I've lost to Burn enough to be satisfied with seeing a herd of Rhinos in hand. :laugh:
Feels like we're coming full rotation from where we were a year ago though.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.
Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.
I feel the same way with "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". If someone wants to have Rhino in the deck, max them out or don't play with them at all.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
I too feel like having 4 Rhinos + Thragtusk is a tad excessive. I'd either replace a couple Rhinos with CA engines like Tracker/Meren (Meren lets you recycle Rhinos, so that is a simple replacement really), or anti-combo stuff like Thoughtseize/Surgical/Glen Elendra or even Notion Thief if you are up to feeling spicy.
Are you really just slamming them or using GSZ to put down more than two Rhinos? I'd think at that point you GSZ for Atraxa or have more mana to get Dromoka.
I cascaded into leovald from a notion thief the other day and realized how much of a nonbo that is.
I agree Tusk can probably be cut but 4 rhinos makes me moist.
Not a huge fan of meren, when I played him, he didn't do much for me but maybe its time to try him out again albeit 4 cmc is the most contested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
If you can GSZ for Rhino, you can GSZ for Atraxa. They're both 4 mana.
Also - I know I've gone "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". Works quite well, actually. You can never have too many Rhinos.
More rhinos is more better. many games are won by chaining rhinos till your opponent gets angry and tells you to play real legacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganfar
I feel the same way with "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". If someone wants to have Rhino in the deck, max them out or don't play with them at all.
4 baby, herding the Skillerhino.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ganfar
I feel the same way with "Rhino, Rhino, Rhino". If someone wants to have Rhino in the deck, max them out or don't play with them at all.
I've found a single Rhino to be pretty reasonable actually. Mainly because it's a source of direct damage and stabilization that also happens to work really well with SoFaI, but I don't want to devote multiple deck slots to a finisher which Miracles can trade 1 for 1 with.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
I've found a single Rhino to be pretty reasonable actually. Mainly because it's a source of direct damage and stabilization that also happens to work really well with SoFaI, but I don't want to devote multiple deck slots to a finisher which Miracles can trade 1 for 1 with.
Even though I love the concept of playing 8rhinos in legacy, in the current metagame I have to agree wholeheartedly with you. I'd rather play a couple of trackers instead of the 3rd and 4th rhino for this exact reason.
Tracker is somewhat underrated I feel
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I could imagine that casting rhinos in 4c list is also more heavy than for example a tracker. Personally I play 2 rhinos and 1 tracker.
I don't want to miss thragtusk, he won me so many games and makes people thinking abt their removal. Getting the 3/3 token is amazing.
Gesendet von meinem ONE E1003 mit Tapatalk
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I've said my peace on the 4x rhino plan months ago. I think it's a trap, but hey, do you.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Tracker is strong and drawing cards is good but abrupt decay is a huge percentage of removal in legacy and in most match ups, I find myself losing because I cant cast all my spells, not a lack of having enough. I could see it being good in some matchups but at 3 cmc I would rather gsz for leo or wait a turn for Atraxa/rhino.
I appreciate this thread because there are so many different people working on the same menagerie deck. We each have unwritten rules to how we construct our nic fit decks. I don't think any person is wrong or that I am right but I operate under the assumption that as long as something works for me, I will use it until it needs to be updated. So things like less than 4 vet/rhino or playing stp over path go over my head because its not what I accept as correct but once again, im not all knowing so I could be wrong.
Back to focus: Beating ANT, I need help obviously haha
atm: -1 tusk, +1 seize to mb. +1 teeg to sb
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[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
Tracker is strong and drawing cards is good but abrupt decay is a huge percentage of removal in legacy and in most match ups, I find myself losing because I cant cast all my spells, not a lack of having enough. I could see it being good in some matchups but at 3 cmc I would rather gsz for leo or wait a turn for Atraxa/rhino.
I appreciate this thread because there are so many different people working on the same menagerie deck. We each have unwritten rules to how we construct our nic fit decks. I don't think any person is wrong or that I am right but I operate under the assumption that as long as something works for me, I will use it until it needs to be updated. So things like less than 4 vet/rhino or playing stp over path go over my head because its not what I accept as correct but once again, im not all knowing so I could be wrong.
Back to focus: Beating ANT, I need help obviously haha
atm: -1 tusk, +1 seize to mb. +1 teeg to sb
Canonist > kambal because cmc and harder lock
I thought exactly like you do now in regards to 8 rhinos, but I lost so many times against miracles that I lost the faith on that strategy. Probably I'm just a bad player
Tracker baits removal while always being a 241 with a fetch (I play 10 fetches), threaten to bury opponent with cards and becomes (very soon, I might add) bigger than rhino. It's a cheap dude online, try it! I was hesitant once like you..
it's not like it is a bad card like courser [emoji28]
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
it's not like it is a bad card like courser [emoji28]
There are a handful of sweet interactions in nic fit that I love, solely because of the look on the opponent's face once they realize what's happening.
Courser + Library/Top is one of them.
Playing Meren, having the Eldrazi player pick up the card and read it, then proceeding to get up to 5+ experience counters thanks to Tower/Vet is another.
Lately, there have been a few times I've waited until 5 or 6 mana, then played out Sneak Attack followed by Emrakul and it feels very similar. Even just playing Sneak Attack on turn 3 or 4 you sometimes get to watch a player suddenly realize that nic fit is about to kill them and they don't have an answer. It's the little things in life :tongue:
Edit: Can't remember who mentioned running Daze in BUG Fit just for the candid camera gotcha! if you could ever snag something with it. (combo with Tracker lol)
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
square_two
There are a handful of sweet interactions in nic fit that I love, solely because of the look on the opponent's face once they realize what's happening.
Courser + Library/Top is one of them.
Playing Meren, having the Eldrazi player pick up the card and read it, then proceeding to get up to 5+ experience counters thanks to Tower/Vet is another.
Lately, there have been a few times I've waited until 5 or 6 mana, then played out Sneak Attack followed by Emrakul and it feels very similar. Even just playing Sneak Attack on turn 3 or 4 you sometimes get to watch a player suddenly realize that nic fit is about to kill them and they don't have an answer. It's the little things in life :tongue:
I honestly never get tired of the look on my opponents face when I fetch a Dryad Arbor and completely screw their combat math. It gets even better when Meren returns the Arbor.
Another one I've been enjoying with SE is when I cast a Ranger of Eos, it gets a Sylvan Safekeeper+Endless One, and my opponent realizes all of their spot removal is now dead.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Dromoka is a fine way to close out a game. Though, 5-drops are usually enough to close the game on their own.
B/c having a 5 (or 6, if you GSZ for it) mana card answered by
Lightning Bolt is pretty bad.
Or, you know, you drop Titania, trigger goes on the stack and your opponent Bolts Titania in response where other cards would steal the game. It's high risk, high reward, but this deck doesn't win by taking risks. This deck wins by pulling ahead of your opponent and burying them in cards. Instead of Titania, opt for Siege Rhino/Sigarda and just go for the sure thing. Why give your opponent an out when you don't have to?
@Ricardio: Dude, that manabase looks like you're cruisin' for a bruisin'. Less duals, moar fetches! Up that colour count!
I can understand the notion that it would be a blowout to lose to bolt. Fortunately, burn and grixis delver are the only places that card is regularly found nowadays and if one identifies those decks, you can easily fetch one of your 3-4 rhinos instead. I think it's a completely reasonable, and even wise, card choice to have a bomb win condition like Titania. To me, it's been rare that I've established several 5/3's and not won right afterwards.
Bear in mind that I'm talking strictly about junk. I've seen the discussions about the 4 color list with Atraxa and Leovold and I couldnt be more in love. Casting cards like siege rhino, Leovold and Atraxa seem like what this deck is all about (in terms of fun and flavor). What are your thoughts on the blue splash?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClimbGneiss
I can understand the notion that it would be a blowout to lose to bolt. Fortunately, burn and grixis delver are the only places that card is regularly found nowadays and if one identifies those decks, you can easily fetch one of your 3-4 rhinos instead. I think it's a completely reasonable, and even wise, card choice to have a bomb win condition like Titania. To me, it's been rare that I've established several 5/3's and not won right afterwards.
Bear in mind that I'm talking strictly about junk. I've seen the discussions about the 4 color list with Atraxa and Leovold and I couldnt be more in love. Casting cards like siege rhino, Leovold and Atraxa seem like what this deck is all about (in terms of fun and flavor). What are your thoughts on the blue splash?
I used to run Titania, so I do understand your desire to win on the spot. Unfortunately, if your Titania doesn't get bolted it's just as likely to get sent to the farm (StP) or be bounced by Karakas with trigger on the stack. It's just been too high-variance for me in testing. Grave Titan is strictly better if you want a card that people will concede to. At the five spot, Nissa is better than almost any other option out of sheer versatility - she's always good by virtue of her ability to get back a clutch silver bullet, apply pressure that is StP and Terminus-proof, or net tons of card advantage via the quick ultimate. If Delver were running wild, I might say that personal preference is fine, but Miracles is the deck with a target on its back and Nissa (as well as Thragtusk and Sigarda) is strictly better for that matchup.
Everyone is going to play and build this deck differently, but in my mind we are grinding the game out as plan A. When we win, it tends to be in showy fashion (with a rhino and / or a titan and / or a huge tireless tracker), but that's after many turns of pernicious deed into eternal witness-get back pernicious deed. We're a rock deck with a toolbox package in GSZ and the ability to turn the corner quickly. To that end, I've never been a fan of more than 2 rhinos. Rhinos 3 and 4, for me, are better spent as a Garruk and a Kaya (or a Nissa and a Kaya). They're both so much better against Miracles. If the meta shifts, those spots can be used to bring in other bullets to attack whatever the new meta's weaknesses are.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gth842s
I used to run Titania, so I do understand your desire to win on the spot. Unfortunately, if your Titania doesn't get bolted it's just as likely to get sent to the farm (StP) or be bounced by Karakas with trigger on the stack. It's just been too high-variance for me in testing. Grave Titan is strictly better if you want a card that people will concede to. At the five spot, Nissa is better than almost any other option out of sheer versatility - she's always good by virtue of her ability to get back a clutch silver bullet, apply pressure that is StP and Terminus-proof, or net tons of card advantage via the quick ultimate. If Delver were running wild, I might say that personal preference is fine, but Miracles is the deck with a target on its back and Nissa (as well as Thragtusk and Sigarda) is strictly better for that matchup.
Everyone is going to play and build this deck differently, but in my mind we are grinding the game out as plan A. When we win, it tends to be in showy fashion (with a rhino and / or a titan and / or a huge tireless tracker), but that's after many turns of pernicious deed into eternal witness-get back pernicious deed. We're a rock deck with a toolbox package in GSZ and the ability to turn the corner quickly. To that end, I've never been a fan of more than 2 rhinos. Rhinos 3 and 4, for me, are better spent as a Garruk and a Kaya (or a Nissa and a Kaya). They're both so much better against Miracles. If the meta shifts, those spots can be used to bring in other bullets to attack whatever the new meta's weaknesses are.
I like Kaya and Garruk a lot. I also like Nissa quite a bit. Is there not room for all of these? I see many lists running at least 2 of 3 of the above walkers and at least 2 rhinos, if not 3.
I can understand your point about responding to the trigger. Maybe I just havent had the blow out occur. The idea that you can gsz for Titania is the big draw to me. I mean, it's situational, right? You have to have some idea of whether it's a possibility or not. So, assuming partial knowledge of your opponents hand, its a great way to win the game. I think Nissa is the next most obvious choice.
I like that Kaya acts a little like a better version of Recurring Nightmare.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I'm really interested to hear about everyone's thoughts about junk versus the new blue splash. I reallyyy like Leovold. That card seems right up this decks alley.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClimbGneiss
I'm really interested to hear about everyone's thoughts about junk versus the new blue splash. I reallyyy like Leovold. That card seems right up this decks alley.
Leovold is the tits man. He is maindeckable hate bear against combo decks that is still relevant against the rest of the field.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
@emaugust: Reread your post, saw your question was mainly about Sneak Fit. I'm mainly a Junk Fit guy, so there's no need for me to divulge.
Nah man it is all good knowledge if it is about Nic Fit! :smile:
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
http://i.imgur.com/8dfPej4.png
http://i.imgur.com/8dfPej4.png
Moist Rhinos v2
Took some of the considerations and made the changes. I dont have time tonight to run it so probably tomorrow night. being sick sucks.
Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated.
CHEERS, M9
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
4 baby, herding the Skillerhino.
I call it a Rhinoscopy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClimbGneiss
What are your thoughts on the blue splash?
Going too far into blue seems incredibly dangerous to me. It's so demanding on your manabase that you're likely to screw yourself out of games with it. For now I'm sticking with just the 1 and GSZ for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cherson
I could imagine that casting rhinos in 4c list is also more heavy than for example a tracker. Personally I play 2 rhinos and 1 tracker.
I'm on 4 Rhinos (or 3 and an Atraxa) and a Tracker. And a Courser. You can have it all!
@Ricardio: Dude, dump the ADs for 2 PtE and a Qasali Pridemage! And you probably want another Top in there.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
Moist Rhinos v2
Took some of the considerations and made the changes. I dont have time tonight to run it so probably tomorrow night. being sick sucks.
Thoughts and suggestions are always appreciated.
CHEERS, M9
Im really not in love with not being able to cast Sigarda off of basics but other than that the mana base does look better(thank god for vet and shaman)
14
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[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
I like this! Please win a league and name the deck like that on the various websites
E: no ooze? Seems weird with all this br reanimator BULLSHIT going on atm
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
I like this! Please win a league and name the deck like that on the various websites
I'd go with Rhinos-In-The-Rain.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@ u splashers: when exactly do you tutor for Leo in non combo mu?
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
@ u splashers: when exactly do you tutor for Leo in non combo mu?
Against jace most of the time.
Also against shadrless when they have visions on suspend if you have seen some decays already.
Can let you get out from under ports if they are prioritizing your other colors for some reason.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
I'd go with Rhinos-In-The-Rain.
Did you see Cedric Phillips flamed the idea of creative deck list names? I don't remember the exact wording, but basically he called it stupid and useless. Pardon me if I embelished, but I'm pretry sure that was his sentiment.
I get the impression he is not a fan or legacy/vintage players and our attempts at creativity. Hopefully, I'm not blowing things out of the water, but his recent statements seem a little harsh and out of left field.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClimbGneiss
Did you see Cedric Phillips flamed the idea of creative deck list names? I don't remember the exact wording, but basically he called it stupid and useless. Pardon me if I embelished, but I'm pretry sure that was his sentiment.
I get the impression he is not a fan or legacy/vintage players and our attempts at creativity. Hopefully, I'm not blowing things out of the water, but his recent statements seem a little harsh and out of left field.
Cedric wants formats to have as low a barrier to entry as possible when it comes to understanding them because it makes for a better broadcast when a deck name describes the deck rather than being creative. If someone is brand new to legacy a name like Stax or Nic Fit makes for horrible coverage, and as much as I hate to say it "Abzan Ramp" (or better yet BG/x Ramp) is a much more broadcast friendly name for the deck.
I think the problem with descriptive deck names though, is that the whole system breaks down when you have two different decks in the same color combination. BGW Midrange can describe both Maverick and Nic Fit or BUG Midrange covers our blue builds as much as it does Shardless. SCG however avoids this problem by confining their coverage to only a few decks, so this particular issue never comes up.
Ideal names are both creative and descriptive. It's not an easy thing to do though. Cheeri0s is an example of this.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
legacy decks are old and have important names full of history and wonderful backstory.
Nic Fit, Solidarity, etc.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
Cedric wants formats to have as low a barrier to entry as possible when it comes to understanding them because it makes for a better broadcast when a deck name describes the deck rather than being creative. If someone is brand new to legacy a name like Stax or Nic Fit makes for horrible coverage, and as much as I hate to say it "Abzan Ramp" (or better yet BG/x Ramp) is a much more broadcast friendly name for the deck.
I think the problem with descriptive deck names though, is that the whole system breaks down when you have two different decks in the same color combination. BGW Midrange can describe both Maverick and Nic Fit or BUG Midrange covers our blue builds as much as it does Shardless. SCG however avoids this problem by confining their coverage to only a few decks, so this particular issue never comes up.
Ideal names are both creative and descriptive. It's not an easy thing to do though. Cheeri0s is an example of this.
I appreciate the measured, well-thought-out response. I was hoping not to be accusatory in my post, but I'm afraid on that count. I will say that I mostly agree with your take on cheerios and the post below yours which talks about the history of names like nic fit and solidarity.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
legacy decks are old and have important names full of history and wonderful backstory.
Nic Fit, Solidarity, etc.
Yes, but adding vocabulary for the viewers doesn't help with growing the format.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
For someone not familiar with Legacy the deck names are a bit confusing. When I was still solely a Modern player I was watching a Legacy Open on Twitch and was watching decks like Burn, Colorless Eldrazi, Reanimator, Storm, and....Tin Fins? WTF is that?
When we're "in the know" it's all good and fun. The descriptive names themselves can get pretty silly by themselves, particularly when you have a Standard season like BFZ/Khans with "Jeskai Black" and "Blue Abzan" and the like. But as a Legacy player I find the deck names fun and a much better description of what you're actually playing. Nic Fit is one that's a little more vague but you still have a general idea of what the deck is trying to do. Others like Maverick, D&T, and Deadguy Ale are just names that stuck, but still have meaning when you are familiar with the format, or ones named after key cards/abilities like Miracles, Food Chain, or Aluren still tell you what the deck will do.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ClimbGneiss
Did you see Cedric Phillips flamed the idea of creative deck list names? I don't remember the exact wording, but basically he called it stupid and useless. Pardon me if I embelished, but I'm pretry sure that was his sentiment.
I get the impression he is not a fan or legacy/vintage players and our attempts at creativity. Hopefully, I'm not blowing things out of the water, but his recent statements seem a little harsh and out of left field.
I don't care. He's free to say whatever he wants. Why should that piss on my parade? They can call this deck Abzan Ramp Good Stuff (if Rock is no longer a thing) if that's what pleases the crowd. Doesn't mean I won't stop liking stuff like Rhinos-In-The-Rain or SE Fit.
Heck, for me silly names are a motivation to look up what they're about.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
my favorite names that I've heard are: standard allstars.dec or BG/X EDH
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
my favorite names that I've heard are: standard allstars.dec or BG/X EDH
I always liked 'Not Enough Bad Lands.dec' for Scapeshift - I played a Blood Crypt in addition to a playset of Badlands.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
The proper name for Junk splash blue is "Tombstone," except we dont run Brainstorm.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
The proper name for Junk splash blue is "Tombstone," except we dont run Brainstorm.
I'll be your huckleberry.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I might be running the Starfield deck tomorrow, and if I do it's going to go on my decklist as Nyx Fit.dec.
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Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navsi
I might be running the Starfield deck tomorrow, and if I do it's going to go on my decklist as Nyx Fit.dec.
I played that one online for a few leagues earlier this year. Keep in mind if you are running Curse of Death's Hold, that last time I checked, modo was bugged and would not allow you to put it into play from Rector. Talked with judges and they saw no reason that you couldn't in paper though.
Going to run Living Plane?? :cool:
