[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

So there's this hot new deck out there you guys might be interested in. It's a BGx control deck that abuses the synergy between Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy to disrupt the opponent and ramp into big finishers. I think the kids were calling it "Nic Fit"?

I think it has lots of potential. Can we discuss this idea instead?

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I like this idea =)

So, since nobody said anything, I'm assuming that I'm the only one going to Edison? #SCGBlizzard

Also, who all here is going to Cinncinnati? I will not be, but I'd like to know how many we have there and who to keep an eye out for on the coverage.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

You'll take your arrogance and your elitist attitude, and you'll kindly remove yourself back to a thread that cares.

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I play storm. This shouldn't be a surprise.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I will not allow anyone to blithely poke their head in here and start potshotting the players who make this thread the best goddamn community on the Source. ELC is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else in this thread, and he is entitled to express that opinion how he deems fit.

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I've followed this thread for a long time. Opinions can and should be challenged.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I like this idea =)

So, since nobody said anything, I'm assuming that I'm the only one going to Edison? #SCGBlizzard

Also, who all here is going to Cinncinnati? I will not be, but I'd like to know how many we have there and who to keep an eye out for on the coverage.

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Double post, but HoneyT's Punishing Fire Nic Fit list is probably the best suited for the current North American metagame.

Beating a dead horse, but Kessig Wolf Run is a house.

Going forward, this deck should be playing Mindbreak Trap in the board. At least 2, 3 at most.

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

Double post, but HoneyT's Punishing Fire Nic Fit list is probably the best suited for the current North American metagame.

Beating a dead horse, but Kessig Wolf Run is a house.

Going forward, this deck should be playing Mindbreak Trap in the board. At least 2, 3 at most.

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Agreed regarding Mindbreak Trap. The incoming Belcher/Storm metagame is only going to get worse before it gets better -- it's only natural that such a thing should happen in response to the midrange decks getting uppity.

PFire seems strong in that it has a weaker fair-deck matchup than Scapewish (though still absurdly good), but it less linear and has a sideboard to dedicate to combo. That ability to beat combo is a strong point in its favor as the dominant red-version list going forward. Once blue picks back up again, Scapewish will probably return to being the go-to red list...but for now, I agree -- PFire is stronger.

As for PFire compared to Rector, the Jace lists, G/B, and Junk, I dunno. I feel like it's better in the meta than Junk and Jace, but on par with or worse than Rector and G/B. G/B is actually in a very strong position currently, due to its extra disruption. I mean, the moment combo starts aggressively adopting Leyline of Sanctity, things get worse for G/B...but until then, I think G/B is a more solid choice than it has been for many months.

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Originally Posted by Kich867

I had to cave to put a second thragtusk in just to hit 60 cards with this list haha.

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I dream of the day I build a deck and have that problem... I'm pretty sure the day I got my second Revised starter was the day I started having problems cutting to 60!

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

So, since nobody said anything, I'm assuming that I'm the only one going to Edison? #SCGBlizzard

Also, who all here is going to Cinncinnati? I will not be, but I'd like to know how many we have there and who to keep an eye out for on the coverage.

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I'm debating Cincinnati since I found out the following Monday is a holiday for me which makes the 6 hour drive home less of an issue. If I do I'm not sure I'll be on Nic Fit; I have been itching to play some Stoneforge again...

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Originally Posted by HoneyT

So there's this hot new deck out there you guys might be interested in. It's a BGx control deck that abuses the synergy between Veteran Explorer and Cabal Therapy to disrupt the opponent and ramp into big finishers. I think the kids were calling it "Nic Fit"?

I think it has lots of potential. Can we discuss this idea instead?

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LOLZ!!!!! Best thing I've read all week!!! :cool:

So I guess I'm still stuck on this one, maybe you guys can give me pointers. I'll try to use the best grammar I can. :wink: :tongue:

So I'm playing around with a G/B/w Rector build and I can't seem to decide on what's better or how to balance the removal suite. I have the following cards in my possesion -

4x Swords to Plowshares (owned these from WAY back)
4x Pernicious Deed (owned these from way back)
4x Vindicate (owned these from way back, plus they are signed)
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse (these seem to be both harder to find and slightly more spendy than the above options for some reason)

Ok, now, this color build has a pretty sick selection of both spot and sweeping removal, right? The thing I don't like about Decay is the "converted mana cost 3 or less". What I'm struggling with also is, which ones really matter and how do you find room for what really matters? Swords gives your opponent life, which isn't all bad I know. But is the CMC 1 for a Sword or CMC 2 for Decay really a big deal in a deck that can ramp so well? I mean, it seems like I can get to the mana to cast a Vindicate or Pulse as quick as I need to cast a Swords anyway. So is the only real advantage to Swords the whole "Remove from game" bit and does that really matter?

Currently, my list has -
MB:
3x Pernicious Deed (running 2x Rector as well plus a solo Sun Titan for extra shenanigans)
2x Vindicate (running 1x Witness)
1x Maelstrom Pulse (see above)
SB:
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Abrupt Decay

Should I make some changes to that? What do you guys think?

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Originally Posted by TerribleTim68

So I guess I'm still stuck on this one, maybe you guys can give me pointers. I'll try to use the best grammar I can. :wink: :tongue:

So I'm playing around with a G/B/w Rector build and I can't seem to decide on what's better or how to balance the removal suite. I have the following cards in my possesion -

4x Swords to Plowshares (owned these from WAY back)
4x Pernicious Deed (owned these from way back)
4x Vindicate (owned these from way back, plus they are signed)
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Maelstrom Pulse (these seem to be both harder to find and slightly more spendy than the above options for some reason)

Ok, now, this color build has a pretty sick selection of both spot and sweeping removal, right? The thing I don't like about Decay is the "converted mana cost 3 or less". What I'm struggling with also is, which ones really matter and how do you find room for what really matters? Swords gives your opponent life, which isn't all bad I know. But is the CMC 1 for a Sword or CMC 2 for Decay really a big deal in a deck that can ramp so well? I mean, it seems like I can get to the mana to cast a Vindicate or Pulse as quick as I need to cast a Swords anyway. So is the only real advantage to Swords the whole "Remove from game" bit and does that really matter?

Currently, my list has -
MB:
3x Pernicious Deed (running 2x Rector as well plus a solo Sun Titan for extra shenanigans)
2x Vindicate (running 1x Witness)
1x Maelstrom Pulse (see above)
SB:
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Abrupt Decay

Should I make some changes to that? What do you guys think?

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I'm running Rector as well and my removal consists of 3 Deed, 1 Vindicate, 1 Pulse, 1 Decay. I think that's pretty typical, though the Decay comes and goes.

When you're looking at mana costs, it's not just "how much can I reach" but "how soon will I need it." Plowshares is awesome because it will stop a T1 Goblin Lackey before it gets out of hand, not because it exiles something. Meanwhile there's a good chance if your removal is Vindicate that Lackey has done some serious harm to your well being. (Note, this is hypothetical. If you're on Rector and running Moat you shouldn't worry about goblins too much.)

Were I you, I'd swap the second Vindicate in your main for a Decay. Decay hits a huge percentage of the format and being uncounterable sometimes matters. I'd drop the Pulse and Vindicate from the board and possibly the Decays.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I've come to realize that there are two basic "styles" of Nic Fit decks, on a base level: those with gimmicks, and those without. A gimmick can be defined as an extra engine that makes the deck -do- something, aside from just ramp and play big fat fatties while controlling the board state. Scapewish and Rector are both gimmick lists, as Scapewish has Burning Wish and Rector has...well...Rectors. At the same time, there are straight Jund and straight Junk lists of Nic Fit that don't run a gimmick, but play more like a Big Jund or a Big Junk, with relation to their smaller siblings (which do not run Explorer). Same with Jace Nic Fit as compared to something like Future Fit.

So....basically you've got a short list (per above) of the core staples that each version shares. Then you've got some thinking and deciding to do -- what splash color do you want, if any, and then what gimmick do you want, if any. Then we can give you more specific advice from there.

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Thanks for the quick response and phenomenal input guys! :smile:

So the core does stand mostly how I remembered it from months ago, and then the potential just appears to explode from there. I have some definite thinking to do. Although considering my first entry back in to Legacy was Goblins its a welcome change to have 'freedom' in deck choice. :tongue:

I'll probably be play testing a creature light PW build (I've been looking for an excuse to run Garruk <3) and a Scapeshift variant. Though I am interested in running a KotR build that abuses utility land, but I feel it might be underwhelming in the current meta.

Have any of the Scapeshift variant pilots found the comfortable number of Scapeshift to actually run? And should I leave 1 sideboard and run a Burning Wishboard? That's my only real debate with that for the time being. If I find something super successful or stumble across any awesome tech I'll be sure to post it here :cool:

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Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

I play storm. This shouldn't be a surprise.



I've followed this thread for a long time. Opinions can and should be challenged.

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lol storm, I always have the pleasure of destroying this with nic fit.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I like this idea =)

So, since nobody said anything, I'm assuming that I'm the only one going to Edison? #SCGBlizzard

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While I personally will not be going, Jesse Adams who you probably know from Jupiter's NELCs has told me he will be playing Scapewish in Edison, so you won't be the only Nic Fitter in the room.

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

While I personally will not be going, Jesse Adams who you probably know from Jupiter's NELCs has told me he will be playing Scapewish in Edison, so you won't be the only Nic Fitter in the room.

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Yeah, Jesse's been asking me a few questions on facebook about it. Hopefully the pairings are kind to him -- he's skilled enough that he should be able to go deep as long as he doesn't hit too much combo.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Yeah, Jesse's been asking me a few questions on facebook about it. Hopefully the pairings are kind to him -- he's skilled enough that he should be able to go deep as long as he doesn't hit too much combo.

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Agreed. Will you be on Scapewish or Rector this weekend?

Speaking of Storm, I remembered something I've heard in regards to combo archetypes: that their 75 is pretty much set in stone. From what I understand, this is to optimize their chance of winning as soon as possible.

After a brief look through the TES thread, I also realized that the later an archetype intends to win, the more flexibility it has in terms of card choice. This is why Nic Fit has such variety compared to other non-Nic Fit archetypes: it plans to grind games out until they can drop a bomb and beat face.

There's a big difference between engine decks and piece decks. Fast engine decks are likely to be pretty homogenic, especially in the maindeck. Engine decks also can't board heavily without sabotaging themselves. TES is an extreme example - as fast as possible while having protection with a million engines and some outs from a Wishboard, and a lot of that speed predicated on having the best Ad Nauseams in the format. That's a lot of restrictions already in the mission statement. In contrast, ANT is a bit less defined, with people preferring different amounts of cantrips and disruption.

Piece-based decks like Twin, Painter, Hulk variants and of course everyone's "favourite" retarded baby Show and Tell can have a lot more variation because they just have to find a couple cards to win.

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

Agreed. Will you be on Scapewish or Rector this weekend?

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Rector

Sam beat me to it. The muppet crew will be in Edison and while i was going to play scapewish Jesse wanted to play it so i took my list and give it to him. I blame this blizzard on my debating playing a fair deck =).

After playtesting on Cockatrice a bit, I'm tempted to play Hypnotic Spectre on the G/B list. Thoughts?:laugh:

I'm currently packing Vampire Nighthawk, and although he's underwhelming on most matches, it does help with:
1) BURN, Affinity, Goblins, whatever fast aggro deck.
2) It can randomly defend against Emrakul (given you have enough shit to sac to Annihilator)
3) Eats removal
4) Puts you in a better position against other late-game decks. Those few additional life you net early on can really add up.

Again, I have not had plenty of games playing this deck yet. I have about 10% of the deck left to build to have it on paper, but I've been playing the different versions in Cockatrice (mostly P. Fire and G/B lists). I'm really liking the G/B list better at the moment though. And I just love Prime Time into double Treetop Village against Miracles LOL.:laugh:


Also, props to kabards for: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=4315 :tongue:

I was thinking that Living Wish could be great in Rector versions. A wishboard like this:

- Veteran Explorer
- Academy Rector
- Phyrexian Tower
- Karakas
- Removal (Shriekmaw or Fleshbag Marauder or Maze of Ith)
- Fattie (Yosei, Sigarda, Titan or Wurmcoil)
- Yard hate effect (Bojuka Bog, Scavenging Ooze)
- Disenchant effect (Acidic Slime, Qasali, Wickerbough)
- Anti Combo effect (Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist)

would look pretty strong imo.

@sherko

I think removal eating aggressive 3 drops don't really have a place in a control deck like nic fit. We'd need a really high threat density to make them worthwhile. If you are looking for some good cards to apply pressure I'd recommend some combination of thrun, wolfir silver heart, kodama of the north tree and garruk 2.0 or 3.0. They are a threat but aren't as soft to removal so it's ok to just have a few of them.

If you want the life gain too just add more thragtusks.