DERp.
I think that interaction is cute, but it is strong.
Printable View
DERp.
I think that interaction is cute, but it is strong.
I think the main issue with courser is that people think of it as a gsz target, where it really isn't. Eidolon is just a better grab with gsz every single time, as it simply provides more card advantage. I really want to like courser, but it is just a worse enchantress. And unless you are already running the full 16 enchantresses (4 argothian, 4 presence, 4 gsz, 4 eidolon), I can't see any reason to play it. "drawing" extra lands off the top is just worse than actually drawing extra cards by having an enchantress in play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Redkid43
I think there is a deck to be made with mirris guile/sylvan library + exploration + courser (and probably loam), but this is not it.
I ended up going 5-3 and only lost to my worst matchups. I had a blast playing Enchantress and going forward I will continue to play it, it is just so much fun to play. I played the exact 75 I posted above and will make some changes but here is a report -
Round 1 DeathnTaxes (Lost 1-2)
Game 1 - I lose die roll and he goes turn 2 Thalia, Turn 3 Spirit of the Lab and Vial in a Containment Priest (1 main deck) in response to a green sun's, needless to say I lost.
SB wise I take out Helm combo, bring in Stony Silence, STPs, and another Elephant Grass
Game 2 - I drop an early Stony Silence after he stoneforges for Sword of Fire and Ice, and the then dejectedly drops a ratchet bomb. I assemble a few Enchantress cards and engine into Emrakul.
Game 3 - We only had 6 mintues left but came out vast with Vial into Thalia and 2 Flickerwisp. I couldn't hold on.
0-1
Round 2 - Jeskai Stoneblade (Won 2-0)
Game 1 & 2 - Games are pretty easy, he countered maybe 1 or 2 early Enchantresses but his clock isn't particularly fast. I beat him fairly easy. Game 1 Helm Combo, Game 2 Emrakul.
1-1
Round 3 - Enchantress (Won 2-0)
Found out that neither of us have played the mirror before.
Game 1 - After we both laugh after going Forest -> Wild Growth, I have a gameplan, don't drop Rest in Peace unless I can win that turn. It works out as he proceeds to drop Rest in Peace first, I untap and Helm him out.
My SB strategy is to side out Helm combo and bring in 4 leylines so he can't helm me and then has some dead cards.
Game 2 - We laugh again as he drops 2 Leylines and I drop 1 Turn 0. My strategy works again as he starts playing dead Rest in Peaces. He as a really good turn drawing a lot of cards but has to pass. I have 3 Enchantress effects out, I play Emrakul but he has 12+ permanents and is at 19 life. I don't want to swing once and pass the turn as he may just drop an O Ring and I won't be able to win. My deck is getting low but I go for it and dig for a Karakas to lock up the win.
2-1
Round 4 Storm (Lost 0-2)
ugh
Game 1 - Nothing to do as he combos me out turn 3.
Game 2 - This is how bad our storm matchup is - My board is Gaddock Teeg, 2 Leyline of Sanctity, and a Stony Silence. He proceeds to combo me out anyway. The problem is even if we get a good lock down it's hard to pressure fast enough to kill them.
2-2
Round 5 4c Delver (Won 2-0)
I wish I could just play Delver all day :)
Game 1 - Again he attempts to slow me down but with only a couple of deathrites he has to watch me combo out with Helm.
Game 2 - Same as game 1.
3-2
Round 6 Manaless Dredge (Won 2-0)
I felt a little bad as I played next to him earlier, so I won the dire roll and chose to go 2nd :)
Game 1 - He had never seen Enchantress before. He had an early window to dredge a few times and made 4 zombies before I blocked with Dryad Arbor to kill Bridges. After an Elephant Grass into Rest in Peace (Maindeck! he cried!) he scooped.
Game 2 - Turn 0 Leyline shut off Cabal Therapy and other lock pieces and closes game out.
4-2
Round 7 Storm (Lost 1-2)
UGH
Game 1 - He wasn't sure if I had Gaddock Teeg main so he went for an early Empty the Warrens for 14, he flashbacks a Therapy on Elephant Grass and I couldn't find another.
Game 2 - He mulligans to 5 and does nothing, so that's how we beat Storm!
Game 3 - I have turn 2 options of Zenith for Gaddock Teeg or Stony Silence, he proceeds to combo me his turn 2....
4-3
Round 8 Enchantress (again!) (Won 2-1)
Mirror match twice is crazy! And quite fun!
Game 1 - Basically who can get more Enchantress effects wins. I out draw him and Helm him out.
Game 2 - At one point he has 4 Argothians out, so I lose.
Game 3 - I Banishing Light/O Ring 2 Utopia Sprawls in a row to slow him down, I win with Emrakul awhile later.
5-3
Thoughts
It was crazy to play the Mirror twice, but maybe it shows Enchantress was a good decision. Unfortunately Storm is a miserable matchup and I hit it twice. Delver matchups are a breeze, wish I could play them all day. I was really happy with the deck and would definitely play Enchantress again.
Card notes -
Courser of Kruphix - In response to a few points on previous posts, i would never Green Sun's for this guy. He is just here for value. Against 1 Delver opponent I had Mirri's Guile and after he Dazed my Presence I just dropped Courser for insane value until I could get going. That being said it is a flex spot. Eidolon is fine, but none of my games got to a point where I wouldn't just Zenith for another Argothian first. The flex spot may just become another utility enchantment.
4 Green Sun's and 4 Serra's Sanctum - These 2 cards are the case of you don't want to draw the 3rd or 4th one, but you reallllly want to draw the 1st and 2nd one. Know what I mean? This deck is so reliant on Enchantress effects that I think I will stick with 4 Green Sun's. Same with the 4th Sanctum I really want 2 Sanctum so I can generate absurd mana. Wasteland being prevalant I will keep 4.
Exploration- Insane all day. This card is so good. From catching up or getting a little ahead early to blowing them out with double sanctum i always wanted 1, but just 1 so I will stay at 2.
Suppression Field - Would of been only relevant versus DeathnTaxes, but with Stony Silence I felt ok leaving it out, and will probably keep it out.
SB Thoughts
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
My sideboard will go through some changes. i think Humility deserves a spot. I would definitely like Humility versus the hatebear decks, with incidental hate for Sneak & Show/Reanimator. I almost want the 4th Grass main deck. I like the idea of chaining Elephant Grass, plus everyone and their mom goes for Batterskull now.
I will post my updated list later.
Good run, glad to hear you enjoyed the deck!Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydprickett
I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on exploration. You definitely want to see one, but it gives diminishing returns on copy 2 and 3.
Two enchantress mirrors in one event is just plain crazy!
Nice Run! ...thank you for the report. 2 mirrors is epic and exciting. It appears that there is a level to this version of enchantress is a 5 to 6-x deck that needs some more brewing to get over the next hurdle.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydprickett
Knows the deck has issues with:
- D&T
- Combo -- TES, ANT, Elves, Tell decks ...
From what I know from playing Enchantress and seeing what others have adjusted/cut to tune the deck to their liking I decided to challenge the philosophy of the GW build ever so slightly to try and gain more edge in the known poor MUS.
I built the list below and went 6-0 in preliminary testing tonight [MTGO Tournament Practice] only running into (2) combo decks (A strange Altar of Brood deck and Omnitell) The sample size is small but promising.
First the controversial list:
4 Enchantress’s Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri’s Guile
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Exploration
2 Banishing Light
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Karakas
11 Forest
SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
The Maindeck concept remains the same. Tempo and force your way through to victory and rely on Elephant Grass & Confinement to help you stall until you get there.
The boarding Strategy is a bit different. Previously fight combo I would board something like:
-2 RIP
-1 Elephant Grass
-1 Confinement
-3 Suppression Field
-1 Helm (Gaddock Locks out)
+4 Leyline
+3 Stony
+1 Gaddock
...this configuration would allow me to win ~ 50% of the ANT and TES MUs, but left little tools for other combo.
Prior to Dig Through time build of High Tide Gaddock was pretty effective too, however since then and High Tide has moved to instant speed, and did not rely on Candelabra or Top at all the MU got much harder.
Elves also started to adopt Reclamation Sage, and with the bounce ability of Wirewood Symbiote that has proven to be devastating.
Which lead me to this thought again. ...are we trying to hate out too much and have lost our focus on winning? There have been many games where I have a combo deck locked out for several turns, but could not close the game in time because the only win left in the deck. This gave my opponent time to eventually wiggle out of the soft lock and win.
New Board Strat (pending combo variant TES/ ANT below) something like:
-2 Banishing light
-1 Exploration
-2 Elephant Grass
-3 confinement
-1 Emrakul
+3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
+1 RIP
+4 Leyline of Sanctity
+1 Helm
The new philosophy is similar, but different. Playing only (1) spell a turn is a way (Eidilon of Rhetoric's ability) is a way many people have tried to hate on enchantress, but strangely that sin't enough to bring the deck down. Since we can defend ourselves well with single impactful cards (i.e. E. Grass and Confinement) slowing us to (1) spell isn't a significant drawback. As a matter of fact since we get to draw and play impactful enchantments I would go as far as to say we have the edge.
When you add in library manipulation of Guile, and shuffle effects of GSZ and fetches we actually can find hate / wins better than most combo opponents can dig out of that spot. Eidolon also profitably blocks Dark Confidant and Young Pyromancer out of some TES boards until we can assemble RIP Helm. Assembling RIP / Helm is fairly easy post board with 3 guile, 1 Enlightened Tutor, 4 RIP, 2 Helm ...and 4 Sanctum to ramp it out fast. It has been surprisingly effective.
Thoughts?
Great minds think alike! After IQ I was debating if Rule of Law was worth it. It slows us down but I think slowing them down is way more important. Stony Silence is nice but by locking out our Helms it slowed us down to much. I like your list and will be jamming this on Saturday at our local Legacy -
4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Green Sun’s Zenith
4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Rest in Peace
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn
1x Enlightened Tutor
4x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
2x Solitary Confinement
2x Exploration
1x Moat
1x Banishing Light
4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest
SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
I made a few changes from your list -
-2 Forest
+1 Dryad Arbor
+1 Savannah
I like the extra white source available when not playing against Wasteland. Dryad Arbor can be awesome or awful depending. I like having another way to get 3 mana turn 2. It's bad when I want to draw another land for mana that turn but draw Arbor. I will keep testing it.
-1 Solitary
+1 Moat
I'm running Humility SB so the Moat/Humility lock is a thing against D&T/Elves. Not a huge change.
-1 Banishing Light
+1 Exploration
You are probably right in adding a 2nd removal spell. I may be overvaluing Exploration. I will test this some more.
-1 Sigarda
+1 Humility
I have come to like Humility against our 2 worst creature matchups (D&T/Elves). Please let me know how Sigarda does as a clock for you.
I will post some results this weekend as well.
Why Eidolon of Rhetoric and not just straight Rule of Law? I would think a 1/4 blocker wouldn't be that relevant in the Storm matchup.
What's the downside of a creature? Eidolon is better versus Elves as a blocker. And as stated above some storm decks side into Young Pyro etc. Storm plays Abrupt Decay which kills both anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoojo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoojo
Because of the lack of relevant creature removal in the match ups in which it would come in, Eidolon of Rhetoric provides a slight upside vs. Rule of Law, unless your build brings in both Rule of Law and Humility against Elves, in which case stick with Rule of Law in the SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydprickett
Others covered it, but also keep in mind most storm decks run Duress and this cannot be taken with a Duress. In the end if this proves to be the correct route to take maybe a mix of them would be the most correct. That way it's almost certain that at least 1 stays on the battlefield at all times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoojo
As for the revamped list it's not all roses. I tested again last night, but did not have a stellar record. (If I remember I will look at my history and report back what it was) but it was Even to loosing. I wasn't playing tight though as well.
A couple of matches featured MOM and Suppression field would have turned it around. I'm certain of it. Maybe the key is finding a way to somehow keep Fields and find room for Eidolon of Rhetoric.
Edit:
Sigarda is a nod to the BGx decks. Although I have not come across one since having her in the board.
I've been off the helm/rip plan for the last several weeks. I feel like the value of RiP declined greatly when the meta where I play moved strongly away from shardless and BUG delver. So I am on a good old fashioned replenish style plan, partly because it's good all by itself and partly to abuse the synergy between replenish and eidolon of blossoms/doomwake giant. Doomwake looks flimsy on the surface, but he has won me matches in all sorts of tricky situations, and is way better than I thought he would actually be. Here's my decklist, any sort of commentary or feedback is welcome, as always.
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
7 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Nykthos, shrine to nyx
1 Plains
1 Savannah
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Replenish
4 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantresses presence
1 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sigil of the empty throne
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Suppression Field
3 Sterling grove
3 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, sylvok outcast
1 reclamation sage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Humility
1 Suppression Field
Abundant Growth may make Words of Wind worth another look. Does just 1 Abundant Growth fuel a Words of Wind continuously? Wouldn't even need an enchantress to bounce them out.
Would also make 3 colors easy with Utopia Sprawl.
With no enchantress in play, abundant growth + words of wind reads: 1G: each opponent returns a permanent to their hand. While this may sound good, unless you can activate it 3+ times a turn, you arn't really gaining any ground. And if you have 6+ mana and no enchantress in play, you have already lost the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyrocks
I usually run a blue splash for energy field and sometimes run words of wind. The main interaction I found with words is with an enchantress in play, and 2x wild growth / utopia sprawl. You alternate playing 1 growth, bouncing the other, and just go on down your line of lands. So your opponent has to return permanents equal to the # of lands you have (plus sanctum mana and any other things you wanna return). Things obviously get more complicated with explorations and more enchantresses.
I find words of wind to be a winmore. Since the best card on the board is the last card to get bounced, you basically have to bounce everything (i.e. 6+ activations). If you are in the position to be be getting 6+ activations, you should already be winning.
I have been splashing blue as well for Energy Field instead of solitary confinement. I feel like RIP helps out against so many matchups as well as being part of one of our wincons that we should almost always have one in play. That makes Energy Field better than Solitary.
10 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Banishing Light
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Energy Field
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Exploration
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Suppression Field
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
Sideboard:
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Swords to Plowshares
Anyway, since I am splashing blue I have been searching for other blue cards that might help the deck. I just took a quick look through 2cmc enchantments and didn't see anything too promising. The only thing that could have potential is Trade Routes. Could be used to double up a single Serra's Sanctum or dump all the extra lands we draw when we start stringing enchantress effects. I think I will throw a couple in and do some testing. Does anyone that splashes blue use any other blue cards other than Energy Field?
Detention Sphere, In the Eye of Chaos, and Back to Basics are contenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by bwood
Went 3-0-1 at our local yesterday. I beat Zombardment, Burn, and BUG Delver. Drew against Grixis Painter. Detailed report tomorrow.
Bant is appealing for Energy Field and In the Eye of Chaos. However, Eye dies to Abrupt Decay. :(
I'm working on a different list altogether and I have no idea if it'll work. I'll post once finished...
I think that RIP/Helm is nesscary. People are out delving each other and graveyard decks like Reanimator are on the rise because of the lack of DRS.
Round 1 Zombardment (Won 2-0)Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydprickett
Game 1 & 2 - Both games played out the same. He would discard 1 or 2 early enchantress effects. Elephant Grass/Rest in Peace stopped him cold until I could land more Enchantresses. Seems like a great match up for us.
Round 2 Burn (Won 2-1)
Game 1 - He drops an early Eidolon of the Great Revel and rides it to victory. That card is very good against us.
Game 2 - He drops turn 1 Goblin Guide and I have a STP BUT I really want to save it for Eidolon. He gets me down to 10ish before I find an Eidolon of Rhetoric to block the Goblin Guide, next he drops Eidolon of the Great Revel, and I STP. Best slow roll STP ever! I land Solitary Confinement the next turn and lock him out at 6 life.
Game 3 - Turn 0 Leyline blanks him. This game was never close but was very funny. I sided out Emrakul so I had to dig for my 1 Helm of Obedience. At one point I am drawing 5 cards off every enchantment. The Helm of Obedience was the second card from the bottom :laugh: Although the game was never close it was quite funny to the both of us.
Round 3 Grixis Painter (Draw 1-1-1)
This round featured one of my favorite games ever with this deck and one of my dumbest moments
Game 1 - Preface by saying Game 1 took 40 minutes to complete! He lands turn 1 Top and turn 2 Counterbalance. The next 39 minutes was me trying to diversify the spells I cast to land what I could through counterbalance. Finally landed a few enchantresses so even though he was countering a lot I was still drawing cards. He lands Painters Servant at some point and I sit safely behind Solitary Confinement. He is brainstorming every turn with Jace. I finally land Emrakul. I swing and put him to 1 life. He still keeps up Painter with 2 cards in hand. If I pass the turn there is always the chance he can Grindstone me out. So go for it and continue to draw cards to find Helm/RIP and beat after 40 minutes. He shows me if he could untap (even after saccing 6 permanents) he would Pyroblast my Solitary and combo me out.
Game 2 - My punt of all punts This game goes quickly as he naturally Painter/Grindstone's me on his turn 5....and I scoop! Why did I scoop when Emrakul would of shuffled my graveyard back into my library, ummm because I'm simple! I just completely forgot about that interaction.
Game 3 - Round times out and we can't kill each other in time.
Round 4 BUG Delver (Won 2-1)
The one Delver deck that actually has game against us, if they land early threat and back it up with Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, and FOW, then they can beat us
Game 1 - He does the above. He lands Tarmogoyf early and rides Abrupt Decay, Daze, FOW, and Thoughtseize to victory.
Game 2 - He does the above but without a threat. He Ponders turn 1 and turn 2 and does find Thoughtseize etc. But with no fast threat I eventually get my engine going and win.
Game 3 - A pretty good game, we go back and forth with disruption/threats and I eventually combo him out.
Review
Local tournaments are what they are but I was glad how well the deck performed. My brain fart may have cost me round 3. I still could of lost if I drew Emrakul at some point but we will never know. I am really liking the list. I don't plan on changing anything at the moment going forward.
Nice run. Painter is a very positive MU because of Emrakul (board out RIP) I made the same mistake the first day I played the deck with Emrakul, but now you will not forget. Happy holidays to all out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydprickett
I love Words of Wind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
WUG Enchantress with Words of Wind was my pet extended deck way back (I'd say at least 10 years ago.)