[Deck] The Rock

Matt, I'll be in Denver. I got my ticket a couple month's back to visit a buddy, then they announced. He plays as well so we figured we'd hit it up.

zalachan - Destroy their hand as fast as possible. In order you should be going for (turns 1-3) Ramp/"Land Tutor" spells, cantrips, Candelabra, everything else. Don't worry about counters.

Counter's will happen but they're not meant to protect in that deck. They're a stall tactic. If they're spending their time trying to stall you instead of advancing their board, you're in the win there. That being said, if you can pay for a pierce on a Thoghtseize, you'll typically want to do it. After that, Anything's pretty much game.

Let Decay deal with Candelabra since it has no real other applications in the match. You have control with Relic, use it to keep the graveyard flush and force them to pop it, don't waste the Decay. Also, it cantrips... place it in that category. Don't worry about Goyf's size, It'll be big soon enough.

That should give you time to get a knight and catch up on nuking the Locus lands. Just remember, only Cloudposts and Vesuva Matter in the early game. Mid-Late, Primeval Titan makes an appearance so double green is also a hindrance.

If you do manage to take out the Cloudpost with an Extraction, your next target shouldn't be Candelabra. It's only good when they can produce more than 1 mana with any land (or they already have enough to be an issue for you). Your next target should probably be Tropical Island or Primeval Titan. Titan is the plan be to the ramp so keep that in mind. They've only got a couple Eldrazi and without Titan they can't actually force them down. If you can, try to outclass it. Force a block from the Titan since players with more experience will have a backup plan to all of this and you'll want the potential out for that.

As an overall rule: If you're not afraid of a counter, Extract during their draw step to potentially steal the turn from them.
That's one thing a lot of us miss while playing (you'll never see the game better than a spectator). You can use Extraction as forced discard at times. It's not likely, but why not take the chance if you've got the opportunity?

The deck is a mana beast. Take that out and they should be useless. Just remember not to dilute yourself too much. You can't win if you don't have a creature so fit one in asap (provided you're not still disrupting them). You only need one (Goyf/Knight) and can rebuild it quickly enough post relic. Don't play into the Wrath you don't have to.

Hi!
sdmatt, i played your list at our local 57 men tounament.
It was very nice to play and i went 3-1-2 because of
some misplays i made.
My MUs were:
Maverik 2:0
BUG-control 0:2 (against a friend of mine, this match was a real misplay-party on both sides)
Dnt with blue 0:2 (the geist was a real problem in both games)
Burn 2:0 (Discard & Goyfbeatdown!)
Esper-control 2:0 (Garruk was awsome)
Hulk-Combo 1:1:1 (First game i had no idea what happens to me :-D)

Thx for this list!

I also took nearly Matt's list, except I merged it with Barbed Lightning's list to get 3 Liliana in and played 4 Wastelands. I went 3-1-ID for top 8 in a GPT field of 21, and then made it to top 4 and lost to horrible, horrible mulligans game 3.

Dropped Garruk, 1 SDT, 1 GSZ, Dryad Arbor, 1 Plains to add 3 Lili, 1 Waste, 1 Bojuka Bog.

4 Dark Confidant
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Tarmogoyf

3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
4 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog

1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sylvan Library
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Engineered Plague
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Virtue's Ruin

1-2 Infect
2-1 Bant with exact lethal game 3 turn 5
2-0 white weenie
2-1 BUW Stoneblade
ID
2-1 Infect
1-2 Burn

I lost game 3 because I had to mull 1 land Maze of Ith hands into a 5 card, 1 wasteland hand with Shaman, Swords, GSZ, and something else. Probably should've kept those? Drew a top to almost pull it out despite bricking for like 3 turns on looking for lands but he got me for lethal right when I was turning the corner. Never saw my Timely Reinforcements and Shaman was never alive long enough to get me life. Would've faced a glass cannon Cheerios deck in the finals that I think I could've easily taken down with early discard.

The deck played amazing, Liliana was great since the deck can easily dump its hand before using her and she's a great utility card versus nearly everything in the field. The deck can roll with 3 lands, so ditching your extra lands to her is not a big issue, not to mention an early Bob gives you extra chaff to discard. This is much different than other control decks I've tried to play her in which need to be designed around her discard.

Hymns from the board against Infect, Bant, and Stoneblade were nearly the sole reason why I won many games and almost pulled out game 2 vs burn. Turn 1 disruption, turn two Hymn completely took them out of contention especially when followed up by a clock. Might have to bump it to 4.

I felt I had a good spread of permanent removal with 3 AD, 2 Maelstrom. Maelstroms were crucial for taking down swarms of Souls tokens and Jace, while AD was of course good for taking down fast movers. I think a 4/1 split limits you to fighting the aggro plan where your creatures and 4 STP can handle some of that load, so having 2 Pulses lets you combat Jace and general swarms better.

I only ever once fetched Ooze and that was in a burn game I lost, where he hit me with exact lethal in response to Ooze trying to eat the graveyard. I still think I'd play it just because of its utility, but might toss it in the sideboard. Thoughts?

Not so sure about the Engineered Plague in the side. Granted, I didn't play against tribal, but it loses effectiveness when playing it for Humans (goodbye Bob, Tracker) and I didn't feel comfortable playing it solely for Lingering Souls against Stoneblade. It also isn't fetchable via GSZ, so maybe a utility creature in this slot?

Sylvan was the shit. God damn.

Good to see you guys are having success with the list. I'm contemplating cutting a GSZ for a Decay, but we'll see.

Ooze is good for the matchups you want it in, and is much better as a dedicated graveyard hate slot. If you're facing opposing Knights or Mongeese, then you're going to want Ooze more, but in other cases, you don't. I just like having that guy around.

E. Plague does suck if you do have to name Humans, though.

The Timely Reinforcements are definitely my loose slots as well. I just feel like I'm not sure I need this unless I'm playing dedicated Burn or UR Delver, but those are the matchups we suck against :P If BUG is a big deal, this could also be Compost.

I'm also thinking Nourish could also work in that slot, being one less mana (and therefore less susceptible to Pierce and Daze, and without the condition of having LESS life than an opponent, etc.

If Storm starts becoming a real deal, or even High Tide or its ilk, Ichneumon Druid, although slow, is a real card against Instant-based combo that can be fetched with GSZ.

-Matt

I only faced Knight once, but I felt I had it under control relatively well with an active Shaman, and if you play Bojuka there's always that option. Always good to have Ooze around regardless, I agree.

I think Timely Reinforcements is good enough. My only alternative would be Spike Feeder or Kitchen Finks since they can be grabbed with GSZ (which would've saved me actually...), so in effect you focus on running a tutor board. I'd be hesitant to run Nourish because of the GG if you're focused on fetching basic lands to combat Price, but the lower cost is enticing. I generally like the double edged effect to gum up the ground, but will have to test each for effectiveness. I don't really see the 'less life' clause being an issue in those matchups.

I agree, the GG does worry me in the Burn matchup specifically, but I'm also counting on DRS to help out. The life clause is not super relevant in Burn, and probably not in RUG Delver either, but you never know. Instant speed is also pretty great.

-Matt

If you want straight up life gain, i think rest for the weary might be more useful. It's not that hard to get landfall and it gains 8 life while only costing 1W.

When burn was rampant in my meta, I ran rest for the weary. 8 life is quite a breather, and we can accomplish the landfall easily (8 fetches + reliquary). It helped me a lot.

I'm pretty sure you need blue ;)

http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3385

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

I'm pretty sure you need blue ;)

http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3385

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Gotta love how I don't get an email about this until AFTER it's posted.

Enjoy the read all, and tell me what you think.

http://www.eternalcentral.com/?p=3385

-Matt

Matt, I see Sylvan Library jumping $10-$15 over the next month because of that article.

You not only are a great Magic player and deck builder, but are very well-spoken. Great article - I love the inclusion of Dryad Arbor tech (such as making him fight Garruk). Awesome.

Yay Matt! Love the article and will post there after this.

Topic for discussion: How happy have you guys been with wasteland lately? I have been testing the replacement of wastelands for a better mana base and 1 dust bowl to ensure we can mess with peoples mana.

Things I have noted between Matt's list and mine.

-1 Plains +1 Horizon Canopy -1 Thoughtseize +1 Maze of ith

I love basics and will admit to being an advocate to more basics in the past. The problem is that I run Liliana and Abrupt Decay which makes a mono white land really bad. I run Karakas over a basic plains and have mulled too often from having mono white sources to risk 2 mono white lands. Horizon canopy is nice since it helps to prevent flooding, makes both colors, and can be used as a neat trick with KOTR. The thing is if you play a plains you just are asking them to wasteland the Bayou instead.

Is maze of Ith greater than a real removal spell? I never considered it until this article, it's just one of those lands everyone runs with KOTR. Makes me question Karakas now too.

I run a token package (Lingering souls, Jitte, Bitterblossum) and I find it is very similar to Garruk. Super awesome against aggro and control, junk against combo. I am unsure if the 1 tarmagoyf, 1 KOTR, 1 Garruk, 1 Swords, 1 GSZ I cut is worth the package. The liliana's come in at the expense of top by the way; which I found to be too mana hungry for my tastes. On the swap I will say that neither strategy (Extra beaters vs Equipment and tokens) is all that good against combo, but the equipment and tokens are probably better against control and midranged decks that use a lot of single target removal.

This is just me thinking aloud, but if my thoughts interest or help anyone cool.

Maze of Ith does make a nice cut against those Combo decks, though. I'm most likely going to keep the basics Plains, at least if my build stays relatively the same.

I'll probably end up trying Lilianas against just to make sure, but I doubt this will happen.

-Matt

In the words of the SCG Vegas casters "Lilliana loops spell game over", I have never lost a game when she got to ultimate. Losing half of your shit keeps decks from out playing us in the late game and her +1 -2 cycle is deadly for aggro decks.

Played a 5 game match with my list against Matt's solitaire style. Knowing both hands makes it slightly hard to play honest, but almost every game had discard spells flying around to help and I tired to keep it as honest as possible.

My list lost 2-3. With 3 of the games taking over 20 minutes. Not that the record means anything.

I won both games by getting a Jitte active early. Lost 1 due to AD catching the Jitte on equip and a Mpulse topdeck wiping my spirits for a great reversal.
Other 2 game losses went to super long topdeck wars. The addition of the tops + extra library won one of those games, the other a Bob was drawn on his side where I drew a Deathrite. Stalled a while before getting buried in card advantage. Could have been the other way around.

I did notice that the basic land gameplan works very well with his deck, and I stuck to that for pretty much every game with no problems with color screw. In comparison my first game I got cut off of white (didn't matter since I had alternative plays and won).

Tarmogoyf was always huge and frequently outclassed KOTR's.

I mulled once due to Maze and never once had maze in play or tutored for it. I will replace it.

@matt: i dont understand why u play 2 top and 2 library, i think 3 top are better at all.

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Originally Posted by .:saturno:.

@matt: i dont understand why u play 2 top and 2 library, i think 3 top are better at all.

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I think sylvan library is as equally as important as top in a junk list. Given the fact that junk decks don' t have the card drawing of blue, sylvan library becomes their extra draw when needed and when your life total is still high. I love the feeling of manipulating your draw phase to suit your needs.

As to top, it is there just in case you need some manipulation during your opponent' s turn.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks!

I am also on the top bandwagon, but I think the question comes down to how comfortable you are paying 4+ life to draw cards and how comfortable you are being vulnerable to Pierce, Dase, Force, Snare, Decay, etc - not that Top isn't uncounterable, but against control decks, they always have a land in play when you attempt to resolve Sylvan - the same can't be said about Top. (The exception is when you go turn one deathrite, waste them on turn two, and then resolve library - that's pretty backbreaking.)

T1 Inquisition/Thoughtseize
T2 Sylvan

That usually does the trick.

Sylvan is one of the most powerful CA/CQ engines availible, it's that good that i even squeeze it in BUG decks, splashed green in Blade.
It was by far the best card in NO RUG at the time and has always been amazing in Maverick.

The card is seriously underrated. Whenever i am playing blue, it gets a giant target on it's head and i have lost far more games than i won where i wasn't able to get rid of Library within two turns.