4 Card Blind

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

12. silkster: Saprazzan Cove, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Petrified Field

10. FTW: Rushwood Grove, Quagnoth, Dovin's Veto, Assassin's Trophy
Finally, the Assissin's Trophy that I absolutely should not have been playing around.
To win without casting Trophy, you need 5 attacks, which means you need 11 mana, which means you need to charge the grove 6 times. Using Trophy on Tabernacle doesn't save mana, but using it on Cove buys you a lot of time. You now need 13 mana, so 8 charges. You Trophy before I untap with 5 counters, so my turns are: tapped, 1 counter, 2, 3, 4, tapped, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Ulamog, which is turn 13. Your turns are: tapped, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, Quagnoth, attack 1, attack 2, attack 3, attack 4, attack 5, which is 15 in total, which means that I have time to kill your land. I won't even be able to block since it will die to my own Tabernacle on my turn, but I can rebuy it later. Err, Ulamog is indestructible. WW, 6 points

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Playing around Trophy on both your land and threat certainly caused problems.
Thought I did the math on this and still get there. Let's check.

FTW vs silkster OTP
F: Grove tapped
S: Cove tapped

F: 1 counter
S: 1 counter

...

F: 5 counters
S: 5 counters

F: 6 counters + UWRBG floating
S: On your upkeep I Trophy the Cove paying BG. You sacrifice Field. Replay Cove tapped.

F: Tap Grove for 6 mana: Cast Quagnoth. UWR in pool.
S: 1 counter

F: Pay Tabernacle with R. Add 1 counter to Grove. Attack for 4 [S=16]
S: 2 counters

F: Pay Tabernacle with U. 2 counters on Grove [S=12]
S: 3 counters

F: Pay Tabernacle with W. 3 counters on Grove. [S=8]
S: 4 counters

F: Pay Tabernacle with Grove. 2 counters left. [S=4]
S: 5 counters

F: Pay Tabernacle with Grove. 1 counter left. [S=0]
S: 6 counters

You need to untap and remove 6 counters to cast Ulamog, so I should win both OTP and OTD, with you being just 1 turn too slow on your play.
Tech is using the round mana to pay for Tabernacle while recharging Grove, which lets me cast Quagnoth earlier and get more attacks in.

WW for me?

Outstanding results are
H vs alphastryk
Serguei vs H
Serguei vs alphastryk

Serguei vs alphastryk: Veil of Summer stops Mana Short, so Barren Glory should win.
WW alpha

H vs alphastryk: Mana Leak + Mana Tithe beats Veil of Summer and either counters Barren Glory or drains too much mana.
WW H

Serguei vs H: OTP Serguei can play Factory + Inkmoth and then Mana Short with 4 mana open before H untaps the land, preventing Serpopard. OTD Serguei won't be able to prevent casting Serpopard, but if H ever casts it then Tabernacle+Mana Short will kill it.
WW Serguei

Edit: Serguei wins against Serpopard.

Looks good to me.

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Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie

Looks good to me.

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Nevermind. Serguei's deck is much stronger than most of us thought.

If he casts Mana Short in response to the The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale trigger on your upkeep, you can't pay the Tabernacle cost. Your land is tapped and mana pool drained, then the creature dies. He should beat any creature-based deck unless you can counter or prevent Mana Short.

Even Lavinia, Azorius Renegade does not prevent Mana Short because he has 3 lands.

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Originally Posted by FTW

Nevermind. Serguei's deck is much stronger than most of us thought.

If he casts Mana Short in response to the The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale trigger on your upkeep, you can't pay the Tabernacle cost. Your land is tapped and mana pool drained, then the creature dies. He should beat any creature-based deck unless you can counter or prevent Mana Short.

Even Lavinia, Azorius Renegade does not prevent Mana Short because he has 3 lands.

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That's rather clever actually.

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Originally Posted by FTW

Tech is using the round mana to pay for Tabernacle while recharging Grove

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Fuuuuuuuuuudge. The better third land choice would have gotten me +2.9 round points.

Good find, by the way!

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Originally Posted by dte

dte: City of traitors, Savage Summoning, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Eater of Days

11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3-3

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How do you win OTP? I'm seeing either draw or loss.

-> Cast Savage at any time, he responds with Mana Short = loss

-> Mainphase both Lavinia + Eater. He gets 3 turns in a row & plays 3 lands. Upkeep Tabernacle triggers and he responds with Mana Short (can cast due to 3 lands), both creatures die = loss

-> Mainphase City + 2/2 Lavinia only. Now if he responds to Lavinia or Tabernacle trigger with Mana Short, you can Savage Summon Eater in response and win with Eater. Instead he waits and plays out 3 lands, and you have to wait and hold Eater. You tap City to pay the upkeep. On draw step or mainphase (only GBR in pool) he Mana Shorts you and you don't have the mana so flash-Eater response is gone. Then 2/2 Lavinia can't attack into 3/3 Factory. So you stare. Because he played Tabernacle as the first land, you got in first hits with Lavinia so he can't race with Inkmoth.

DL 1-4?
Serguei might have a 2nd win I'm missing.

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Originally Posted by FTW

How do you win OTP? I'm seeing either draw or loss.

-> Cast Savage at any time, he responds with Mana Short = loss

-> Mainphase both Lavinia + Eater. He gets 3 turns in a row & plays 3 lands. Upkeep Tabernacle triggers and he responds with Mana Short (can cast due to 3 lands), both creatures die = loss

-> Mainphase City + 2/2 Lavinia only. Now if he responds to Lavinia or Tabernacle trigger with Mana Short, you can Savage Summon Eater in response and win with Eater. Instead he waits and plays out 3 lands, and you have to wait and hold Eater. You tap City to pay the upkeep. On draw step or mainphase (only GBR in pool) he Mana Shorts you and you don't have the mana so flash-Eater response is gone. Then 2/2 Lavinia can't attack into 3/3 Factory. So you stare. Because he played Tabernacle as the first land, you got in first hits with Lavinia so he can't race with Inkmoth.

DL 1-4?
Serguei might have a win OTD I'm missing.

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If you can't win OTP, how do you win OTD??? if serguei does nothing it's the same scenario. the only instant thing that DTE can do is savage summoning, but it's a loosing play.

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Originally Posted by Tylert

If you can't win OTP, how do you win OTD??? if serguei does nothing it's the same scenario. the only instant thing that DTE can do is savage summoning, but it's a loosing play.

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Serguei wins when Serguei goes first.
It's much easier. Play Tabernacle then cast Mana Short. It dte makes a creature in response, dte won't have City on upkeep and Tabernacle kills it. If not, dte has no mana to play creatures.

When dte goes first his out is to play City first and then mainphase a creature before Tabernacle is in play, but that still does not win. At best he plays to draw by only playing Lavinia and threatening to flash in Eater in response to Mana Short, but the 2/2 Lavinia can't get through Factory.

I meant DL for dte
WD for Serguei - maybe WW if I missed a line

DECKS FOR ROUND 7 OF SEASON 9: Deviant Legacy - Part 2

Sorry to give you so much difficulties to analyze my matches.
Here the deck I submitted
11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

This round we play WUBRG: Each player starts the game with (W) (U) (B) (R) (G) in their mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from the pool as steps end. No additional bannings.


1. Asthereal (TO): Mindbreak Trap, Elvish Spirit Guide, Elvish Spirit Guide, Chromium, the Mutable
Mana Short forces you to play Chromium taking all your mana. No one left to pay for tabernacle
WW 6 pts -> 6pts

2. jhhdk: Bayou, Grave Titan, Sylvan Safekeeper, Leyline of Lifeforce
Mana Short empties your mana at first upkeep and you will not race any of my threat with sylva safekeeper
WW 6 pts -> 12pts

3. dte: City of traitors, Savage Summoning, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Eater of Days

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Serguei wins when Serguei goes first.
It's much easier. Play Tabernacle then cast Mana Short. It dte makes a creature in response, dte won't have City on upkeep and Tabernacle kills it. If not, dte has no mana to play creatures.

When dte goes first his out is to play City first and then mainphase a creature before Tabernacle is in play, but that still does not win. At best he plays to draw by only playing Lavinia and threatening to flash in Eater in response to Mana Short, but the 2/2 Lavinia can't get through Factory.

I meant DL for dte
WD for Serguei - maybe WW if I missed a line

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You missed a line indeed :)

OTP it is very simple. Manashort + Tabernacle at my t1 let DTE with no answer.

OTD as described in previous posts, dte can never go with Lavinia and eater, otherwise he will loose both of them when I will have 3 lands and i will answer triggers of tabernacle by casting manashort.

So the only line for dte is to play T1 main phase Livania.
At my t1 I can only lead with mishras as there is no theat other than a 2/2

T2 dte can safely attack I go down to 18
My t2 I can play an inkmoth nexus and pass

T3 dte cannot attack anymore in my 3/3 mishra.
My turn I can use one of my 5 mana floating to activate nexus and attack 1 poison counter (dte cannot flash in an eater because I still have 4 mana floating and 3 lands to play mana short)

T4 dte cannot attack because I can use the 4th mana floating to activate mishra and it can boost itself into a 3/3.
My turn I will be able to activate nexus by using mishra and he will get 2 poison counter.

So I will win the race. He will get 10 poison counter before I go down to 0.

WW for me. does it sound good to everybody ?
6 pts ->18pts

4. GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Force of Negation, Surrak Dragonclaw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster

11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Tabernacle 0-6

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I would have loved to add 6 pts but sadly I will only add 2 and 2 for you
Indeed you will never be able to go through tabernacle. Nevertheess you do not need any mana to cast pyrokinesis. so you will be able to kill my threat.


DD 2 pts -> 20pts

5. Wrath of Pie: Restoration Angel, Red Elemental Blast, Mercadian Bazaar, Chandra, Awakened Inferno
I cannot deal with any of your cards GG

LL 0pts -> 20pts

6. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Force of Negation, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Sea gate restoration

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale.
Manashort does nothing. Sea-gate tech coming in clutch. WW 6-0.

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Sorry to say that but Mana short. First you can never lead with savage summoning otherwise it empties your mana. So you will have only a 2/3 and you will never go through a mishra s factory 3/3. Then, even with Sea gate restoration you will not be able to pay the tabernacle trigger. I will answer to it by casting mana short it will kill your grand Arbitrer

WW 6 pts -> 26 pts

7. alphastryk: Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal, Veil of Summer, Barren Glory
What not creature ? and a protection for my mana short. So sad :(

LL 0 pts -> 26 pts


8. H: Llanowar Reborn, Prowling Serpopard, Mana Leak, Mana Tithe
At some points you will have to play serpopard otherwise you will loose to my manland.
Passing this point, past my t3, I will have enough mana to pay for mana leak and mana tithe in addition to mana short in response to your trigger of tabernacle. So mana short will resolve and empty your mana in pool, tap your land and you will left with no mana to pay the trigger killing the serpopqrd

WW 6 pts -> 32 pts

9. Tylert: Memnite, Mana short, Vendetta, Silence

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

11. Serguei: You can allways play mana short at some point and then I will not be able to vendetta one of your man land. 0-6 --> 26

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WW 6 pts -> 38 pts

10. FTW: Rushwood Grove, Quagnoth, Dovin's Veto, Assassin's Trophy
LL 0pt -> 38 pts

12. silkster: Saprazzan Cove, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Petrified Field

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silkster

11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Mana Short means that can't do anything until turn 13, which is too late. LL, 0 points

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WW 6pts -> 44 pts


13. maxx!: Savage Summoning, Meddling Mage, Tibalt’s Trickery, Diabolic Edict

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maxx!

11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
I absolutely cannot beat Tabernacle so I have to play for a draw. I can counter Mana Short with Trickery, and then sit on Edict until you activate either of your manlands. Even if you save all your WUBRG to use as extra Factory activations, you can't hit me enough times to kill me without having both of your mana-producing lands. 2-2

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DD 2pts ->46 pts

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

3. dte: City of traitors, Savage Summoning, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Eater of Days


You missed a line indeed :)

OTP it is very simple. Manashort + Tabernacle at my t1 let DTE with no answer.

OTD as described in previous posts, dte can never go with Lavinia and eater, otherwise he will loose both of them when I will have 3 lands and i will answer triggers of tabernacle by casting manashort.

So the only line for dte is to play T1 main phase Livania.
At my t1 I can only lead with mishras as there is no theat other than a 2/2

T2 dte can safely attack I go down to 18
My t2 I can play an inkmoth nexus and pass

T3 dte cannot attack anymore in my 3/3 mishra.
My turn I can use one of my 5 mana floating to activate nexus and attack 1 poison counter (dte cannot flash in an eater because I still have 4 mana floating and 3 lands to play mana short)

T4 dte cannot attack because I can use the 4th mana floating to activate mishra and it can boost itself into a 3/3.
My turn I will be able to activate nexus by using mishra and he will get 2 poison counter.

So I will win the race. He will get 10 poison counter before I go down to 0.

WW for me. does it sound good to everybody ?
6 pts ->18pts

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That is a good application of starting with five mana.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serguei

3. dte: City of traitors, Savage Summoning, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Eater of Days


You missed a line indeed :)

OTP it is very simple. Manashort + Tabernacle at my t1 let DTE with no answer.

OTD as described in previous posts, dte can never go with Lavinia and eater, otherwise he will loose both of them when I will have 3 lands and i will answer triggers of tabernacle by casting manashort.

So the only line for dte is to play T1 main phase Livania.
At my t1 I can only lead with mishras as there is no theat other than a 2/2

T2 dte can safely attack I go down to 18
My t2 I can play an inkmoth nexus and pass

T3 dte cannot attack anymore in my 3/3 mishra.
My turn I can use one of my 5 mana floating to activate nexus and attack 1 poison counter (dte cannot flash in an eater because I still have 4 mana floating and 3 lands to play mana short)

T4 dte cannot attack because I can use the 4th mana floating to activate mishra and it can boost itself into a 3/3.
My turn I will be able to activate nexus by using mishra and he will get 2 poison counter.

So I will win the race. He will get 10 poison counter before I go down to 0.

WW for me. does it sound good to everybody ?
6 pts ->18pts

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I definitely missed the manashort in response to tabernacle trigger before, well-designed!

And if I play Eater first?

T1, I play eater, keeping WUG.
Now you have three turns, in which you can play your three lands, but not attack into a 9/8 flyer.
T2, tabernacle trigger, response mana short or you lose, response Lavinia 3/3.

Now we will trade Lavinia against mishra.

1/4?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dte

I definitely missed the manashort in response to tabernacle trigger before, well-designed!

And if I play Eater first?

T1, I play eater, keeping WUG.
Now you have three turns, in which you can play your three lands, but not attack into a 9/8 flyer.
T2, tabernacle trigger, response mana short or you lose, response Lavinia 3/3.

Now we will trade Lavinia against mishra.

1/4?

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Yeah, I had you playing Lavinia first because I thought it was a draw either way and wouldn't matter. If Inkmoth can race the Lavinia line, then you just play Eater first, have it killed by Mana Short, you flash in 3/3 Lavinia and Inkmoth can't race that.

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Originally Posted by Serguei

DECKS FOR ROUND 7 OF SEASON 9: Deviant Legacy - Part 2

Sorry to give you so much difficulties to analyze my matches.
Here the deck I submitted
11. Serguei: Mana Short, Inkmoth Nexus, Mishra's Factory, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
6. Reeplcheep: Savage Summoning, Force of Negation, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Sea gate restoration

Sorry to say that but Mana short. First you can never lead with savage summoning otherwise it empties your mana. So you will have only a 2/3 and you will never go through a mishra s factory 3/3. Then, even with Sea gate restoration you will not be able to pay the tabernacle trigger. I will answer to it by casting mana short it will kill your grand Arbitrer

WW 6 pts -> 26 pts

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Compared to the decks with actual removal, the fact I can untap into hard cast fon is relevant (since you need to mana short in response to tabernacle). Also my dude flies with the same clock so I should win if I am ahead on the race.

T1 I go sea gate tapped.if you manashort, I can just play everything in response. You play Mishra.
T2 I hardcast August, have UG floating. You play tabernacle, no point suiciding your factory into a 2/3.
T3 you cast short, I hard cast fon for UU and still have G to pay for tabernacle. I win the race.

I think I did miss that if you are OTP you can short me with tabernacle before I get to play a land.

WL 3-3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Compared to the decks with actual removal, the fact I can untap into hard cast fon is relevant (since you need to mana short in response to tabernacle). Also my dude flies with the same clock so I should win if I am ahead on the race.

T1 I go sea gate tapped.if you manashort, I can just play everything in response. You play Mishra.
T2 I hardcast August, have UG floating. You play tabernacle, no point suiciding your factory into a 2/3.
T3 you cast short, I hard cast fon for UU and still have G to pay for tabernacle. I win the race.

I think I did miss that if you are OTP you can short me with tabernacle before I get to play a land.

WL 3-3

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Unfortunately, Fon costs 1UU, not UU.
You cannot save the arbiter, because you need 2UU to pay for tabernacle and counter mana short, so you can counter the spell but somehow it drains you exactly as well as if you let it resolve.

Overall it wasn’t worth it, but this is why i played arbiter over lodestone: Blue spells you cast cost {1} less to cast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Compared to the decks with actual removal, the fact I can untap into hard cast fon is relevant (since you need to mana short in response to tabernacle). Also my dude flies with the same clock so I should win if I am ahead on the race.

T1 I go sea gate tapped.if you manashort, I can just play everything in response. You play Mishra.
T2 I hardcast August, have UG floating. You play tabernacle, no point suiciding your factory into a 2/3.
T3 you cast short, I hard cast fon for UU and still have G to pay for tabernacle. I win the race.

I think I did miss that if you are OTP you can short me with tabernacle before I get to play a land.

WL 3-3

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Are you aware that only the starting five mana doesn't empty and that mana from other sources does as normal?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Overall it wasn’t worth it, but this is why i played arbiter over lodestone: Blue spells you cast cost {1} less to cast.

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I should definitely learn to read magic cards :)
Then well thought on how to be able to hardcast both.

I think you still lose vs Serguei as you cannot block the flying infect nor attack into a 3/3 mishra. So he can just start attacking using his spare mana (never actually casting manashort), and still have a potential 3/3 blocker for a couple of turns, then just race.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Compared to the decks with actual removal, the fact I can untap into hard cast fon is relevant (since you need to mana short in response to tabernacle). Also my dude flies with the same clock so I should win if I am ahead on the race.

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Grand Arbiter Augustin doesn't fly...

T1 Tapped Sea Gate / Inkmoth
T2 Arbiter / Factory, attack with flying Inkmoth

Now Inkmoth just races Arbiter without even trading or Mana Shorting you.

To not get raced by Inkmoth you have to play T1 Arbiter (lose blue mana, can't Force Mana Short) or make 3/x Arbiter (lose to Mana Short in response to Savage).

LL 0-6

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTW

Grand Arbiter Augustin doesn't fly...

T1 Tapped Sea Gate / Inkmoth
T2 Arbiter / Factory, attack with flying Inkmoth

Now Inkmoth just races Arbiter without even trading or Mana Shorting you.

To not get raced by Inkmoth you have to play T1 Arbiter (lose blue mana, can't Force Mana Short) or make 3/x Arbiter (lose to Mana Short in response to Savage).

LL 0-6

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If seguei is planning on attacking with inkmoth primarily I can play Seagate untapped for free and cast arbiter on t1, and still have UUG for the t2 short