[Deck] Merfolk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Purgatory

Here's what I've been tossing around for some time:

3 Mutavault
4 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Island

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merfolk Sovereign
4 Merrow Reejerey

3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte

The sideboard is not finished (is a sideboard ever finished?) but were I to go to an event today, I would probably play something like this:

4 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
3 Engineered Plague
2 Perish
3 Crypt/Relic

Now, what I like about the build is that with 4 Commanders and 2 Jittes, it topdecks rather well if I happen to over-extend into a sweeper or if I run into a stalemate. I still have two slots in the main that are undecided but I'm fairly certain that I want two more creatures. I have tried Waterfront Bouncher (who is kinda situational but good against Emrakul, Iona and friends, and can swing against decks with no creatures) Kira (who I love, but Kira + Jitte = awkward) and I've been meaning to revisit Wake Thrasher, because he can also be topdecked after a sweep and swing for the fences.

Some help regarding those two last slots would be much appreciated.

---

Spell Pierce for sure. I'd also try and squeeze in that 4th daze.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muradin

So has someone done real testing with the exact Saito list? I've read his tournament report and his list is the first Merfolk variant I'd really be comfortable with. How much does the black splash improve the Zoo and Goblins matchup? How does the deck against Ug Vengevine Survival? So far I am still pretty unexperienced with Merfolk but this variant has really attracted my attention and after reading his tournament report from GP Columbus I've already played some game on MWS so far.

---

It doesn't really in my opinion. Mono U has better options against zoo than perish. In my opinion stealing>killing>bouncing. Mind harness is key against zoo along with submerge.

If people have tons of gobs in their metas then board in some blasts.

A frind of mine played the Saito list on Nationals Side and wasnt very happy with it. Few problems he mentioned was SpellPierce Main and Standstill. While Saito chose those cards for a controlheavy meta, our event was full of aggrodecks like zoo, goblins, uwtempo.

Saito did get some good matchups, playing many combo decks and countertop. I don't think he ever faced goblins, and he faced zoo once which he beat as I recall. The whole point of his black splash though seems to be to improve the goblins and zoo matchups. Did the plagues not pull through for your friend? If its better to just run blasts and jitte against goblins, then there doesn't seem to be a huge purpose to the splash, as harness/threads/submerge/hibernation can all be used against zoo without opening yourself up to alot more free damage from fetches and price of progress. He used perish to good effect against vvines, but harness or submerge seem pretty solid there as well, at least good enough to make the splash seem less relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muradin

So has someone done real testing with the exact Saito list? I've read his tournament report and his list is the first Merfolk variant I'd really be comfortable with. How much does the black splash improve the Zoo and Goblins matchup? How does the deck against Ug Vengevine Survival? So far I am still pretty unexperienced with Merfolk but this variant has really attracted my attention and after reading his tournament report from GP Columbus I've already played some game on MWS so far.

---

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post485120

46 man tourney for the bi-monthly legacy tournament here in Los Angeles, my friend and I got 3rd and 4th with Saito's list (mine is 4th), I would've gotten to the final if I didn't punt game 3 in the semi-finals, my worst performance ever. Perish/Nature's Ruin is so badass, I ran 3 but I immediatly upped it to 4 after the tournament.

My record in the swiss was 4-1-1, won in quarter finals, lost in semis.

Round 1: TES (Merfolk did what it does, counters and wastelands)
1-0
Round 2: Counterbalance w/Jace, Game 3 my opponent had no cards left in hand and two goyfs in play, I have perish and and one Merfolk out... we run out of time.
1-0-1
Round 3: Mono-black vampires, never playtested or seen this deck, hard matchup, game 2 I didn't SB in Engineered Plague, my friend Pat that Top8 with Merfolk played against him next and won games 2 & 3 on the back of Engineered Plague.
1-1-1
Round 4: Counterbalance w/Jace, Perish/Nature's Ruin shined here
2-1-1
Round 5: UBR Faeries, Engineered Plague... nuff said.
3-1-1
Round 6: Mono-U Merfolk, hard matchups, whoever went first and opened with vial won, I was lucky.
4-1-1

Top 8:
Quarter-finals: Eva Green, I end both games in less than 5 mins, once again, Perish/Nature's Ruin amazing

Semi-finals: New Horizon: First game I kill him in 2 mins with LoA and Reejerey, 2nd game he killed me in a few mins too, 3rd game I punted badly (had not slept the night before). I go first and play island, his turn he ponders, I don't know why but without thinking I dazed it for no reason, putting me back a land for the turn, I then proceed to draw standstill but down one land can't cast it, his second turn he taps out for Goyf (my daze I threw away!), needless to say I lost a lot of tempo from my misplay and lose to 3 Goyfs eventually, I even drew Perish but me losing the land drop and temp plus his wastelands kept me off mana. I believe Perish is nasty in this matchup as well.

So to answer the question about how black splash helps, it helped with 5 out of the 8 matches of the day and I didn't run in to any Zoo or Goblins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tru3z3rox

Spell Pierce for sure. I'd also try and squeeze in that 4th daze.

---

Spell Pierce feels like a really bad topdeck, however, and I much rather prefer to have the whole set in the side to bring in against relevant decks. They do come in against a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure I want to play them in the maindeck.

Further, I play 21 lands, one more than what is usual, but the mana-hungry Commander along with the splash justifies that (I believe). Could I cut one for like the fourth Daze, and add two more beaters to the mix? I prefer the deck to be aggro with control back-up, not the other way around. I really hate shipping back hands that contained nothing but countermagic, Vials and lands, something that I found wasn't that uncommon when I played 20 lands, 20 creatures, 20 spells. Also, the lack of Standstill means I have to play a lot more off my opening 7, which means I can't afford to keep a shaky hand as often as I could in a Standstill build...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanderAlexander

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post485120

46 man tourney for the bi-monthly legacy tournament here in Los Angeles, my friend and I got 3rd and 4th with Saito's list (mine is 4th), I would've gotten to the final if I didn't punt game 3 in the semi-finals, my worst performance ever. Perish/Nature's Ruin is so badass, I ran 3 but I immediatly upped it to 4 after the tournament.

My record in the swiss was 4-1-1, won in quarter finals, lost in semis.

Round 1: TES (Merfolk did what it does, counters and wastelands)
1-0
Round 2: Counterbalance w/Jace, Game 3 my opponent had no cards left in hand and two goyfs in play, I have perish and and one Merfolk out... we run out of time.
1-0-1
Round 3: Mono-black vampires, never playtested or seen this deck, hard matchup, game 2 I didn't SB in Engineered Plague, my friend Pat that Top8 with Merfolk played against him next and won games 2 & 3 on the back of Engineered Plague.
1-1-1
Round 4: Counterbalance w/Jace, Perish/Nature's Ruin shined here
2-1-1
Round 5: UBR Faeries, Engineered Plague... nuff said.
3-1-1
Round 6: Mono-U Merfolk, hard matchups, whoever went first and opened with vial won, I was lucky.
4-1-1

Top 8:
Quarter-finals: Eva Green, I end both games in less than 5 mins, once again, Perish/Nature's Ruin amazing

Semi-finals: New Horizon: First game I kill him in 2 mins with LoA and Reejerey, 2nd game he killed me in a few mins too, 3rd game I punted badly (had not slept the night before). I go first and play island, his turn he ponders, I don't know why but without thinking I dazed it for no reason, putting me back a land for the turn, I then proceed to draw standstill but down one land can't cast it, his second turn he taps out for Goyf (my daze I threw away!), needless to say I lost a lot of tempo from my misplay and lose to 3 Goyfs eventually, I even drew Perish but me losing the land drop and temp plus his wastelands kept me off mana. I believe Perish is nasty in this matchup as well.

So to answer the question about how black splash helps, it helped with 5 out of the 8 matches of the day and I didn't run in to any Zoo or Goblins.

---

Congrats on the finish. Were the countertop decks Natural Order variants or 4 color, supreme blue builds (i.e. with firespout)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DFY889

Congrats on the finish. Were the countertop decks Natural Order variants or 4 color, supreme blue builds (i.e. with firespout)?

---

Good question, I didn't go in detail about that. Both versions were running Jace 2.0 and red for firespouts maindeck, one was typical Rhox War Monk and Goyfs and the other was same as the Columbus 2nd place but inlcuding more Grim Lavamancers. The one with firespouts and grim lavamancers played against a very bad Merfolk player in a previous round and beat him easy, then he went against me and I beat him easily 2-0 :laugh:

@PanderAlexander
I was your Semi-Finals opponent playing Horizons.
In your defense for dazing my Ponder, I was trying to bait out the Daze by not playing a land before it, hopefully tricking you into thinking I am mana screwed. You did have a T1 Vial though I believe, and you did comment about having it and not needing lands. Still, you had Standstill for T2, that seemed like a crucial error. Playing 23 lands leads to me being mana-screwed very few times.

Furthermore, my Horizon Canopy not being a forest for Submerge purposes certainly helped in this match. Was fun playing against you, even if the match had gone in your favor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sclabman

@PanderAlexander
I was your Semi-Finals opponent playing Horizons.
In your defense for dazing my Ponder, I was trying to bait out the Daze by not playing a land before it, hopefully tricking you into thinking I am mana screwed. You did have a T1 Vial though I believe, and you did comment about having it and not needing lands. Still, you had Standstill for T2, that seemed like a crucial error. Playing 23 lands leads to me being mana-screwed very few times.

Furthermore, my Horizon Canopy not being a forest for Submerge purposes certainly helped in this match. Was fun playing against you, even if the match had gone in your favor.

---

Ya the games were best, either you or me definitly deserved to go to the finals, congratualtions to you. I totally messed up at that Horizon Canopy haha so embaressing. Hopefully you can find a good legacy scene up north, I know it's pretty good up there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Muradin

So has someone done real testing with the exact Saito list? I've read his tournament report and his list is the first Merfolk variant I'd really be comfortable with. How much does the black splash improve the Zoo and Goblins matchup? How does the deck against Ug Vengevine Survival?

---

Link to the tournament report?

http://www.channelfireball.com/home/...ins-legacy-gp/

I've been considering at running a mono U list based on Saito's build. And yes, his was partly successfully due to the sideboard options that running Black gives us. However, if it were one color, it might look like this:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey

4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill

2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
6 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault


Or perhaps just 13 Island instead of fetch lands. My thought is this: what changes can be made to optimize the list for a Zoo heavy meta? Are Spell Pierce or Standstill the best choices here? What about Stifle to change the match's tempo or Merfolk Sovereign to up the aggression?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim

My thought is this: what changes can be made to optimize the list for a Zoo heavy meta? Are Spell Pierce or Standstill the best choices here? What about Stifle to change the match's tempo or Merfolk Sovereign to up the aggression?

---

For Zoo heavy metas run Kira mainboard. For the sideboard I highly suggest Submerge and Threads of Disloyalty (takes Goyf).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim

I've been considering at running a mono U list based on Saito's build. And yes, his was partly successfully due to the sideboard options that running Black gives us. However, if it were one color, it might look like this:

4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Merrow Reejerey

4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Standstill

2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
6 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault


Or perhaps just 13 Island instead of fetch lands. My thought is this: what changes can be made to optimize the list for a Zoo heavy meta? Are Spell Pierce or Standstill the best choices here? What about Stifle to change the match's tempo or Merfolk Sovereign to up the aggression?

---

Why on earth would you run more fetches than lands to fetch? Personally if i was running the fetches i would add in Brainstorm over Standstill if you do not like them. I agree that the Kira in a Zoo heavy meta is a must.I run a 14 Lord list with Kira and it seems to work good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanderAlexander

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post485120

46 man tourney for the bi-monthly legacy tournament here in Los Angeles, my friend and I got 3rd and 4th with Saito's list (mine is 4th), I would've gotten to the final if I didn't punt game 3 in the semi-finals, my worst performance ever. Perish/Nature's Ruin is so badass, I ran 3 but I immediatly upped it to 4 after the tournament.

My record in the swiss was 4-1-1, won in quarter finals, lost in semis.

Round 1: TES (Merfolk did what it does, counters and wastelands)
1-0
Round 2: Counterbalance w/Jace, Game 3 my opponent had no cards left in hand and two goyfs in play, I have perish and and one Merfolk out... we run out of time.
1-0-1
Round 3: Mono-black vampires, never playtested or seen this deck, hard matchup, game 2 I didn't SB in Engineered Plague, my friend Pat that Top8 with Merfolk played against him next and won games 2 & 3 on the back of Engineered Plague.
1-1-1
Round 4: Counterbalance w/Jace, Perish/Nature's Ruin shined here
2-1-1
Round 5: UBR Faeries, Engineered Plague... nuff said.
3-1-1
Round 6: Mono-U Merfolk, hard matchups, whoever went first and opened with vial won, I was lucky.
4-1-1

Top 8:
Quarter-finals: Eva Green, I end both games in less than 5 mins, once again, Perish/Nature's Ruin amazing

Semi-finals: New Horizon: First game I kill him in 2 mins with LoA and Reejerey, 2nd game he killed me in a few mins too, 3rd game I punted badly (had not slept the night before). I go first and play island, his turn he ponders, I don't know why but without thinking I dazed it for no reason, putting me back a land for the turn, I then proceed to draw standstill but down one land can't cast it, his second turn he taps out for Goyf (my daze I threw away!), needless to say I lost a lot of tempo from my misplay and lose to 3 Goyfs eventually, I even drew Perish but me losing the land drop and temp plus his wastelands kept me off mana. I believe Perish is nasty in this matchup as well.

So to answer the question about how black splash helps, it helped with 5 out of the 8 matches of the day and I didn't run in to any Zoo or Goblins.

---

Hahah...I was your round 3 match with Vamps. Ya those eplagues were killer, but doesn't boarding a playset seem narrow? When I ran U/B I would rarely board them. Just seems like there are much better cards to put in.

For known confirmed Zoo-heavy metagames, DON'T PLAY MERFOLK. Seriously.

If you insist on it, however, Submerge and Blue Elemental Blast have generally been enough for me. Between those and the Pierces, you get a fair amount of opportunity to do plenty of moose stuff. It still sometimes will all go terribly wrong, but that's the drawback of the deck. There's only so good you can make any deck's worst matchup without compromising too much.

Bitch deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Parax

Why on earth would you run more fetches than lands to fetch?

---

Why is that a problem? Many other DTBs have similar configurations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

Bitch deck.

---

Troll face.