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Eternal Dragon counts as a land when you're building the list so at 24 lands he is actually one land above the three most recently posted lists. 24 is reall a fine number.Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimoman
Also, for the mana base you probably want to have Polluted Delta, which gets both Tropical and Scrubland. Its minor but cleaner.
yeah, but personally I'd just run a sea over the trop so just replace the flats with deltas
RIP ANT.
What about Monolith to ramp an All is Dust ???
The weakening of ANT & Reanimator sounds good for us.
I just found a comfortable board to deal with Reanimator too. If it's still around, it might improve the matchup a little bit more, as it'll take longer for them to go off, giving me ample time to set up. Anyhow, after putting some thought into it, I'm not retooling the SB yet. Bryant Cook made a really good point in the TES thread & B/R Discussion thread that Mystical Tutor isn't essential for a deck like that to survive. I would know, since I play that list pretty much. Still potent as all hell without MT.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieW89
The Mana Base I was running wasQuote:
Originally Posted by rayaj
4x Strand
4x Tundra
1x Trop
1x Scrub
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Karakas
2x Tolaria West
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Wasteland
Seemed great on paper but I actually was getting color flooded with basics. It was fine the Majority of the time but when I wanted to drop Blue Mana every turn against combo or in the control mirror where my disruption is almost entirely counter based I had the right cards in hand but didn't always have the right colors of mana or enough of what I needed. It was nice to crush mana denial decks by dropping 3-4 basics out of hand the first few turns of the game but I don't think it is really needed so:
(My original Mana base didn't run the Trop or the Scrub and ran an additional basic of each, it also ran minus 1 Explosives and plus 1 Path to Exile, with 7 basics I was able to drop numerous basics every game. I apologize for any confusion but I have about 7 different builds going and it's easy to get small details confused)
corrected mana base:
4x Strand
2x Heath
4x Tundra
1x Trop
1x Scrub
1x Tolaria West
1x Karakas
2x Island
2x Plains
2x Wasteland
3x Mishra's.
This was my mana base for the gp trial where I went 7-1 on the day and had zero mana color issues.
How were the Karakas + Tolaria west for you? Was it ever a problem that they weren't basics?
Was T.West's lack of speed ever a factor?
I think this is the way to go. Many people say Standstill sucks because the "new" Landstill lists cut all cards that were good with Standstill.Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
The last time i played Landstill in a tournament (long time ago; summer '08) i played 3 Decree, 4 Factorys, 2 Wastelands and 1 Dragon. You are able to use all these cards under Standstill which makes it less situational. Most lists I see replaced Decree with Standstill, play no Dragons and most of them play only 1 Wasteland/Dust Bowl. It's no surprise that many other decks are able to play better under Standstill than you if you cut all cards that are good with standstill. I believe this is the reason why Landstill isn't seen more in Top8.
Planeswalker are great and powerful. But only if you drop them before Standstill.
I'm very corious how your sideboard was. You have beaten Storm very consistently and it isn't a great MU. Did you play Ethersworn Cannonist or Meddling Mage?
I liked this list, very "classic one". But what about side?? And...Why no jace 2.0 nor 1 copy??Quote:
4x STP
2x PTE
3x WOG
1x Humility
1x Elspeth
3x DOJ
1x Eternal Dragon
4x Brainstorm
3x Standstill
3x FOF
3x Spell Snare
3x Counterspell
4x FOW
3x EE
4x Strand
2x Heath
4x Tundra
1x Trop
1x Scrub
1x Tolaria West
1x Karakas
2x Island
2x Plains
2x Wasteland
3x Mishra's.
This was my mana base for the gp trial where I went 7-1 on the day and had zero mana color issues.
Jace is a very strong card but Fact or Fiction is an instant: You can play it after your opponent breaks Standstill in his turn and you don't have to tap your lands in your turn because you need your mana for counterspells.
This is the primary reason but also because you actually dig usually 10%+ into your library. Jace's 0 ability is great but honestly I'd rather have the pure CA right now. Jace is fine as a 1 or 2-of in the board, although I haven't played a control mirror in ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranarion
I've been trying to return to a more class list. But i just cant cut Sensei's divining top/Jace 2.0 because the amount of games they made me won cannot be counted...
Also, SDT works incredibly well under Standstill. Usually, opponent won't hesitate to break Standstill when i have top + Standstilll. Making sure to have all the lands drop + the bomb (DOJ/Mishra's) when needed make it a really bad idea to wait :)
Robert
Fact or Fiction may generate more card advantage now, but Jace is also a win con. FoF isn't a win con.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbid-
How about this deck?
// Lands
2 [A] Plains (1)
1 [A] Savannah
3 [A] Island (2)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [B] Tropical Island
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [A] Tundra
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
// Spells
2 [CFX] Path to Exile
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [B] Wrath of God
3 [B] Counterspell
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [FNM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [CFX] Path to Exile
i cuted 1 humility because im not a fan of silver bullets without tutors. i added the 4th standstill because of the many cards that synergise with sstil.
s: 5 cards against combo, finks + pte against zoo, 4 cards against GY decks, grip against bant/bsurv.
any thoughts or ideas on my deck?
Yes, but do you need Jace, TMS to beat CounterTop, Zoo, or Merfolk? Like I said, he's good in the control mirror (that I agree will be on the rise in popularity), which is probably why I squeezed one in my board, but I'd rather get pure CA into more redundancy. In my aforementioned matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
FoF could be pure CA, but may also be a super expensive cantrip. You don't have any control over how the opponent will make the piles, which usually result in them putting the one card you need in one pile and the rest in the other pile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morbid-
Jace, while slower card draw, allows you a large amount of control over your draws. In addition, he can end games with his fateseal to deny the opponent bombs and then eventually kill them with his finisher. Also, his bounce is useful for larger creatures like Iona or what not.
Karakas has been good although I have yet to bounce an Iona or Emyrkul in an event but I did bounce a Vendelian Clique that was cast in response to my Standstill. Tolaria West hasa not been a hindrence really and I have used it to get EE to deal with Counterbalance and Vial a few times now.
Sometimes there is 1x Jace in my SB. Without Vindicate my Plainswalker removal is low so it's useful should I run into a control mirror plus it comes in VS Reanimate. I have considered 1-2 Oblivion Rings but I have never been a fan of them. I don't know exacltly where the list will go with the upcoming tweaks for the GP but I would rather keep it the 2 colors.
In my opinion Jace is not a replacement for Fact or Fiction, honestly if the list is built correctly and you play the deck right Fact or Fiction is a win condition.
No I do not run Mage or Cannonist in my SB. In fact I don't even own them it's been so long since I bothered to run them. I don't consider any build of Tendrils to be a bad match up for Landstill if you know how to play against the deck.
The 1 of Humility is not so random, it is my 5th MD answer to Vial. The others being Tolria West and 3x EE. It also serves as my 4th Wrath effect in game one. I run more sweepers and answers to Vial in my SB.
But when you need a special card an your opponent puts it on a pile and the rest on another, do you really need the other cards? I would rather have the one card I need instead of pure card advantage. And this one card can actually make card advantage (e.g. Wrath of God). Nevertheless, most of the time you should get 2 or 3 cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
I can't believe that Jace, The Mind Sculptor is a win condition very often. I would use his +0 ability and sometimes the bounce. Against Control I like Jace Beleeren better. But this may be because I didn't played so many games with the new Jace.
Can you tell us how to play against Storm with Landstill?Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
Why do you make your sideboard a secret? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
Is Krosan Grip really necessary? You have 3 Counterspell, 3 Spell Snare, 4 Force of Will and 3 Engineered Explosives as an answer to survival. And you can make Survival worse with your GY-Removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by APodeschwa
-That's assuming FoF actually draws into the card you need. Jace with a fetch or dig can dig much deeper and more often.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranarion
-JMS does this much better with a fetch or too.Quote:
I would rather have the one card I need instead of pure card advantage.
Quote:
Nevertheless, most of the time you should get 2 or 3 cards.
That's not very good for 4 mana. Jace can easily net 3+ should a opponent decide to leave him unchecked.
Quote:
I can't believe that Jace, The Mind Sculptor is a win condition very often. I would use his +0 ability and sometimes the bounce. Against Control I like Jace Beleeren better. But this may be because I didn't played so many games with the new Jace.
I'll admit, I underestimated him. Try him: once you clear their board of stuff and they go into top-deck mode, Jace will end the game ala Fateseal unless they have a top. After that, he nukes their library, which almost no deck can stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Jace digs more often but FoF digs 5 cards, Jace only 3. Even with fetchlands it takes longer to dig 5 cards with Jace. The difference is that FoF gives you the cards instantly where Jace needs a few rounds to gain that card advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
After I cleaned the board DoJ or Elspeth end the game much quicker.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
While I am not winning Jace is slow CA (or fateseal every round for 4 mana which looks quite bad imo) but Decree of Justice can act as a removal or a fog (without carddisadvantage) and Elspeth can generate more blockers (while gaining counters for her ultimate).
konsultant, I have a few more questions:
• You played 3 Standstill and 3 FoF. Would a 4/2 split be better? Of course Standstill is a bit more situational but it's cheaper and gains more card advantage.
• How where Elspeth and Humility as 1-ofs? I played with Cunning Wish long time so i could tutor for Humility with Enlightened Tutor. Is your card draw enough to get it consistently against aggro?
• You said you play Jace, MS against opponent's planeswalker and you don't like Oblivion Ring in sideboard to deal with them. What about Pithing Needle? It's good against so many cards Landstill hates: Aether Vial, planeswalkers, Mutavaults and Wastelands.
I'm still not sure if Elspeth or Decree of Justice is a better winoption. With Elspeth you are able to suddenly go into beatdown mode but without enough DoJ Standstill gets worse.
Instead of playing 3 Mishra and 2 Wasteland I play 4 Mishra and 1 Dust Bowl. I used Wasteland most of the time to kill opponents manlands so I simply can play more manlands to get an equal effect. And without Crucible of Worlds I prefer Dust Bowl over Wasteland because of it's reusablity.