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Moat can be theoretically solved with siege gang, but chances are in the time it takes to sac 10 goblins they'll have dropped a solitary confinement. If enchantress is that bad in your meta, run 4 anarchy in the board, 4 waste and 4 port mb. Maybe 3 siege gang maindeck? The other option is to splash green and play krosan grips.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Remember how I said my meta wasn't exactly developed?
Most of the time I'm playing some kids RB Demon Deck with the full set of Kuro, Pitlords, some of the time I play Johnny Homebrews that do decently, and sometimes I get one of the few "scary" people. My sideboard is only geared towards fighting those scary people.
Scary Decks in my meta(by scary I mean good, decent deck that's a challenge to play against):
Burn
Old School SuiBlack
Enchantress
Painter's Grindstone
(occasionally) Reanimator
And I expect someone's going to start bringing Dream Halls.
Wait a sec.
Doesn't Anarchy hit Progenitus?
I can't believe this just clicked for me; I had been considering the black splash just for Perish...
I feel a tad moronic now.
I came almost exactly to this list, minus the sideboard. The key really is just removing the Goblin Chieftain (or one as a tutor target). Other then that 23 lands, 4 instigators 3 SGC's and no ports. Working flawlessly so far. Just the Auntie's Hovel I'm wondering about.. is that a good idea? And why is it better then a fetch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Hovel can't be Stifled.
Thanks for getting discussion back to what matters, which is not substandard decks because Wastelands are too expensive. I think these discussions make more sense on less serious websites or maybe the casual forum but definately not the DTB forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nessaja
Auntie's Hovel can not be Stifled unlike fetchlands and doesn't cause lifeloss. Furthermore, it doesn't shuffle the deck which makes every Ringleader after the first better. The CIPT is hardly ever relevant because you always have a Goblin in hand and if you don't chances are you aren't going to spend your mana that turn so it's perfectly fine to just let it come into play tapped. I can imagine some rare situations postboard where you have a hand full of sideboard cards but no Goblins, but I'll take that drawback.
But it can be wasted, unlike a fetch that can give you a basic. Not to mention, fetches thin the deck, so your ringleaders chances get slightly better. And honestly, I'd rather have them waste their stifles on my fetches as opposed to my lackeys/instigators/ringleaders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis
I run 3 Hovels and 3 Mires, and its worked out fine for me so far. I'm not as scared of Wasteland as I used to be, and I've never had a fetch Stifled so far.
The only card where Stifle really hurts us is Incinerator or Stinscourger. We can deal with a Stifled Lackey or Ringleader or Vial, it's unfortunate but they only buy a turn against Lackey/Vial, they don't answer the problem. For Ringleader, it sucks, but we're still up a card on them.
Sorry if the question bugged you. It wasn't so much a budget question as much as asking which serves a more important function. I've seen a lot of discussion on which form of artifact hate to run, and I was wondering which was the most consistent, Scrapper, Tinkerer, or Vandal? Also, going to try and replace 1 of 3 Siege-Gangs with a Kiki-Jiki. Not trying to fall into the trap of cool things, but he and ringleader/siege-gang are amazing together.
At Hovel vs Fetches...
The thing is, decks packing wastelands are unlikely to be able to afford to spend their turns not making land drops and wasting our lands. However, they may have plenty of time to stifle a fetch or two. And it is extremely disastrous for goblins to get a stifle fetched the first couple turns, while getting wasted is not as bad and much less frequent (IN percentage though...because obviously a lot more decks run wasteland).
I top 8'd at 78 man tournament on saturday. If a deck played wasteland, they wasted me. I played decks packing stifle in 4 matches. Guess how many times they stifle my fetches? Zero. They stifle your wastelands more than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoulQ
Ok. That's not really the point I'm trying to make. I shouldn't have included the part about frequency.
The point I was trying to make is that a stifled fetch is much worse than a wasted hovel, not just from looking at the math behind it, but because of what goblins is trying to accomplish in the first 1-3 turns, and with your mulliganing decisions.
I think it really comes down to your meta. If your expecting more decks with wastelands, play fetches. If your expecting a lot stifles, play Hovels to be safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoulQ
I would rather get wasted than stifled. If they wasteland one of my lands, then we both lose a turn. If they stifle a fetch, they put me back a turn and are now ahead.
We run wastelands so we both lose a turn too, but it's worth it when it comes to vial and the fact that we have low drops to minimize how much we actually lose.
I'm new to these forums. I've posted a bit here, but not overmuch. I'm wondering the general consensus of the boards concerning these issues, as issues change over time, as do opinions, and some ideas present in older posts may be outdated.
1. What colors, if any, do you splash in the given metas?
Combo-Heavy, e.g. Enchantress, Ad Nauseum, Elves!, Belcher, Ichorid
Control-Heavy, e.g. Landstill/Dreadstill, MUC, Thresh Variants
Aggro-Heavy, e.g. Zoo, Vial/Ravager Affinity, Aggro Elves
2. What are the star cards in those metas?
3. What's the best form of Artifact/Graveyard/Combo to run? Such as Relic/Crypt/Leyline, or Scrappers/Tinkerer/Vandal?
4. What's the value of a Matron toolbox, in the main or the side? Are singletons in either case useful enough, or do the occasional dead draws hurt the deck too much?
5. The accepted number of Instigators. I know some propose 2, some 4, but I'm unsure. I can see both sides, but I'd like to see solid arguments for both.
I'm sorry if this is too much to ask for a n00b on the boards, but they're all questions i'm wondering as I test and build my own version.
Also, what tools do we have to fight Pox-esque decks? It can be kind of a rough-MU.
Exactly what I was trying to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHealex
Honestly, goblins shouldn't be afraid of wasteland at all. We are tempo, tempo, tempo, and your opponent simply can't afford to be wasting their landrop wasting your badland/hovel. When we have a vial, lackey, and/or instigator out on the field, they aren't gona uptap and kill your land. They are going to uptap and lay down a tarmogoyf. Using wasteland is detremental in tempo to both the person being wasted and the person using the wasteland.
I'm not going to say being wastelanded will never wreck you, because it could. But because of how rare that happens and the nature of goblins, wasteland is not something we should have to build/play around.
One would think, but it happens more often than you would expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zythe
At Vestal it seemed like the only thing that would get Wasted was my Port, or my own tapped Wasteland.
I'm kinda looking for a shit to goblins myself and also would appreciate if someone could answer those questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
I know how a goblindeck should look like a few years ago but feeld that I'm kinda at a loss nowadays with those fancy new goblin cards being printed and stuff.
Taco's list looks quite solid though and I'll eventually test it and would appreciate it even more if some very expirienced goblin player could renew the thread by writing a new primer.
Some old decks are getting a new one lately, so why shouldn't goblins get a new as well?
I hope someone (like taco for instance) could find time to make the effort.
I wrote a mehish primer and emailed it to the admin before Christmas, but I guess they decided not to post it. If Taco wrote a primer it would probably be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by EaD
I know personally that if I were going to Madrid, I'd probably bring something close to Taco's list, though I'm not really a fan of his sideboard. Honestly though, I would only play this deck because I'm best with it, I don't think it is best positioned in the metagame to really dominate Madrid.
I would play 4 perish in the sideboard for Madrid as well. It helps against two of three most popular decks in the format (zoo and UGW progenitus). I do think playing black is probably optimal at this point if you are going to a larger event like Madrid.
The way I play against poxish decks is to be as hyper aggressive as possible, but in the end it will be a difficult matchup.