[Deck] Merfolk

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Originally Posted by Parax

Why on earth would you run more fetches than lands to fetch? Personally if i was running the fetches i would add in Brainstorm over Standstill if you do not like them. I agree that the Kira in a Zoo heavy meta is a must.I run a 14 Lord list with Kira and it seems to work good.

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I generally agree with you, but as others pointed out it's not really an issue. Saito ran these mainly to grab Underground Sea but as I suggested, you could simply run 13 islands. I played Brainstorm in my white splash version but have been trying it out with Standstill as of late. Problem is, it seems I gave up some consistency and may be better off going back to the standard mono U tempo version. In that case, I probably wouldn't run any fetches at all. The determining factor here is whether Stifle performs better in my meta than Swords to Plowshares.

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Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

Bitch deck.

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Someone lost to Merfolk one too many times.

I just think running 7 fetches with 6 islands has no real feasable thing. I can see decks that do play Brainstorm wanting the reshuffle which would make sense (i still would at least run 1:1 fetch to fetchable cause if you run into a deck that is eating you lands, and you run into a fetch and nothing to fetch ::palm face::.

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Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

Bitch deck.

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I wish this was facebook and I could 'like' this.

I used to be a master of fish. Now I have a greater respect for the Japanese culture and the concept of sushi.

Combo is the way to go.

Hi guys,

I'm in doing some statistics and I need your help.
I need you estimates about certain MUs of Merfolk. If you want to help me, please click on the link below and answer 13 questions about Merfolk's MUs.

Survey

Thank you for your help!

Are you going to publish them here? ;)

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Originally Posted by 1rakete

Are you going to publish them here? ;)

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Yes, but this analysis is not only about Merfolk. So I wont publish the results in this thread.

Btw I went 4-1 (wins against reanimator, homebrew not competetive deck, mirror and maverick; loss against zoo) yesterday with the following list:

// Lands
13 [ST] Island (3)
4 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [U] Lord of Atlantis
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
3 [MM] Waterfront Bouncer

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [NE] Submerge
SB: 2 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth


As I have to admit some pairing luck (the reanimator was a competetive build but unexperienced player and the homebrew deck was just not good) I think a tourney report does not help anyone here. There is just one useful finding I want to share:

The waterfront bouncer was absolutely mvp all day. Against reanimator he just bounces everything except leviathan, so they need exhume, careful study usually does not do the job. Against the mirror my opp vialed to 3 (He was playing 16 lords i suppose). He did curve out pretty well game 1, but I was able to do some good trades. When I stabilzed, I was able to bounce his CC and get through with my own one for the win. Against Maverick, this guy just won me the game. Against zoo, I unfortunately did not draw him. So thats my suggestion: If you want to adjust your deck for the metagame, dont forget this option to include this dude. :)

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Originally Posted by 1rakete

// Lands
13 [ST] Island (3)
4 [MOR] Mutavault
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [U] Lord of Atlantis
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
3 [MM] Waterfront Bouncer

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [NE] Submerge
SB: 2 [TO] Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [DS] Echoing Truth

Against zoo, I unfortunately did not draw him. So thats my suggestion: If you want to adjust your deck for the metagame, dont forget this option to include this dude. :)

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Mind Harness and Stifle swung the Zoo match up in my favor at a local weekly tournament yesterday. Specifically game 3, which had me on the edge facing a Goyf at 5 life. My only outs were Hibernation and Mind Harness or the Silvergill Adept to draw into it. Waterfront Bouncer has a built in card disadvantage that sets you back too far in a match that highly depends on such marginally advantages.

You usually draw a lot of cards you dont need in the mid / lategame anymore with merfolk. This includes in general vials and islands but can include, depending on the game state,a lot more of the deck. For example: If I dont have a LoA, I would gladly trade a Cursecatcher vs New Horizons against a Vore-Attack. Dont speak about synergies like bounce creature and waste their land so they cant replay it anymore. Or bounce creature and drop Standstill.

Against Zoo, Mind harness is of course better then Bouncer. But you can't compare a sideboard-card with a quite flexible maindeck-metagame-card. Bouncer is also good vs Emrakul, Tombstalker, Equipments, removal (bounce own creatures) and so on....

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Originally Posted by 1rakete

Against Zoo, Mind harness is of course better then Bouncer. But you can't compare a sideboard-card with a quite flexible maindeck-metagame-card. Bouncer is also good vs Emrakul, Tombstalker, Equipments, removal (bounce own creatures) and so on....

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Agreed, but I maindeck Stifle in that slot and sometimes Spell Pierce depending on the metagame. Of course, in the white splash version I played, it was Swords to Plowshares. All very flexible 'maindeck metagame' cards that don't give up card advantage.

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Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim

Agreed, but I maindeck Stifle in that slot and sometimes Spell Pierce depending on the metagame. Of course, in the white splash version I played, it was Swords to Plowshares. All very flexible 'maindeck metagame' cards that don't give up card advantage.

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I tend to agree with you here. Stifle has been bashed quite excessively and is a lot better then most people seem to be giving it credit for on this thread pertaining to this deck.

If you don't have a lot of combo like ANT, Doomsday, Aluren, Belcher, etc., and have a lot of aggro in your metagame then stifle is a better option then spell pierce main deck. Mind Harness is strictly an optional side board card. In my view, both Submerge and Perish are better options in any event.

Stifle not only stops your opponents fetch lands but also can save your Mutavaults and duel lands from opposing Wastelands. It can stop Pernicious Deeds and Engineered Explosives and also does so much more. With 4x Wasteland which is standard in pretty much every fish/ merfolk deck, stifle has some pretty good synergy there. Other blue based decks from the past and present that run or have run 4x Wasteland also run Stifle: See Caleb Durward's U/G Madness - Survival, Faeries, Team America and Canadian Threshold. In the context of merfolk against aggro and control it seems good. I play spell pierce over it right now because combo is running ramped in my metagame and I also run the black splash version of merfolk.

Heavy control oriented decks are becoming a problem in my metagame, especially the landstill versions. Humility, Board sweepers, removal, engineerd plague are some of the examples of what i have faced lately. What weapons do we have against these knd of decks ?

What do you guys recommend? I'm really thinking about switching to Spell Pierce main...

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Originally Posted by claudio.r

Heavy control oriented decks are becoming a problem in my metagame, especially the landstill versions. Humility, Board sweepers, removal, engineerd plague are some of the examples of what i have faced lately. What weapons do we have against these knd of decks ?

What do you guys recommend? I'm really thinking about switching to Spell Pierce main...

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currently i play 2 spell pierce maindeck, with one more SB. They're great with all the targets you mentioned above, plus they help against EE (for example they force opponent to stay with only 1 mana open or 0 mana open so he cant activate em) they help against dread return (rarely the dredge player will have more than 1 open mana). Against Tourach is god (resolving tourach is one of the worst thing for a Merfolk player). Only MU where i side em out is Gobbos. I suggest 3 between MD and SB.

How do most folks typically sideboard against Zoo, especially zoo with Grim Lavamancer?

I have access to both Submerge and some Blue Elemental Blasts in my SB, so I guess the way I would go is:
On the draw:
-4 Daze
-4 Standstill
+4 Submerge
+4 BEB

On the play:
-4 Standstill
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Merrow Reejerey
-1 Force of Will
+4 Submerge
+4 BEB

I'm not crazy about boarding out the standstills, but I'd hate to have them respond to a Standstill on the stack by nuking 1 or more of my creatures on the table.

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Originally Posted by Psyqo

How do most folks typically sideboard against Zoo, especially zoo with Grim Lavamancer?

I have access to both Submerge and some Blue Elemental Blasts in my SB, so I guess the way I would go is:
On the draw:
-4 Daze
-4 Standstill
+4 Submerge
+4 BEB

On the play:
-4 Standstill
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Merrow Reejerey
-1 Force of Will
+4 Submerge
+4 BEB

I'm not crazy about boarding out the standstills, but I'd hate to have them respond to a Standstill on the stack by nuking 1 or more of my creatures on the table.

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I run Merfolk with the white splash, so I usually like keeping my Standstills in against Zoo because it's easier for me to keep their creatures under control. After sideboard, I have 4 STPs (in the main), 3 PtEs, 3 BEB and 3 Kiras (I run 2 in the main). I usually take out some combination of Daze and Force of Will since the card disadvantage from Force is really painful because most likely you have to remove a creature card to play it.

Well it seems that for you, it's a lot easier since you have so much removal. You become almost a strong deck Landstill deck. Kill your guy, sit behind Standstill, etc.
For other decks version though, you're always going to be behind on the board and having Standstill is just detrimental.

ive been testing my dredge deck versus saito's md (sans black). im not sure how to sb for fish here but heres what ive been doing.

+2 Umezawa's Jitte
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Tormod's Crypt (over 3rd Harness/Jitte/Kira etc. for testing purposes)

-3 Standstill
-2 Lord of Atlantis

unused sb cards for my stock fish list
3 Submerge
3 Hydroblast
2 Mind Harness
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

is this sb'ing correct for the dredge mu?

Crypt is a strictly better card than Relic in Merfolk lists because it's faster and Relic is mana intensive. Ideally, you'll be tapping out every turn to race Dredge, since one gy nuke isn't enough to beat a half-decent or even reasonably lucky Dredge player by itself. Crypt is more to buy you time than trump their deck. Relic is mostly for control decks (rather than aggro or aggro-control) that often have nothing better to do with the mana in early turns and can afford to keep it up.

I'd probably also side out -2 Reejerey on the play and -2 Daze or -1 Daze/-1 Pierce on the draw rather than LoA, since Vial always stays at 2 (for Saito build specifically) and all of my spare mana would be spent equipping Jitte or leveling Coralhelm. Granted, Daze and Pierce are often hard counters but it's somewhat unlikely they'd risk a Dread Return without checking your hand with Therapy first or Breakthrough after the first turn (for which you would need Force) and Daze still doesn't get around a free Therapy/ Return with their (usually) singleton land up.

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Originally Posted by Sunsatzu

ive been testing my dredge deck versus saito's md (sans black). im not sure how to sb for fish here but heres what ive been doing.

+2 Umezawa's Jitte
+2 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Tormod's Crypt (over 3rd Harness/Jitte/Kira etc. for testing purposes)

-3 Standstill
-2 Lord of Atlantis

is this sb'ing correct for the dredge mu?

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You should keep all your Lord of Atlantis in, you want to kill them quick and make your guys as big as possible, a relic or tormod's will slow them down but don't be fooled it won't stop a good dredge player, you don't want to give them time to recover since they will. I would take out all 4 standstills, since they just DDD behind it and build up a army tokens from reoccuring ichorids and bridges.