Not instead of Grudge, but next to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollking21
Pierce, snare, etc. don't have 2/3 flying body.
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Not instead of Grudge, but next to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollking21
Pierce, snare, etc. don't have 2/3 flying body.
I don't particularly like a body next to my answer cards. If rest in peace is killing me I don't want to have to wait a turn to deal with especially after playing 3 mana and having to most likely tap out for it. That's a little bit of personal prefrence perhaps though. I've only played rug for about 3 months
Nah it's basically the truth. Even sulfur elemental, a threat/answer with a lot of perks is still less preferable than Dread of Night--its just that we can actually cast sulfur.Quote:
Originally Posted by trollking21
Canadian is a straightforward deck: creatures beat, cantrips dig, everything else is an answer
what is the matchup analysis against merfolk?
I would think RUG has an advantage with so many cheap removals and REB
Pretty much counter AEther Vial, Bolt their first lord and resolve Goyf. G1 is maybe 55/45 for them. Postboard gets easier with REB.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
im thinking about price of progress in metagame with much blades and shardless, the normal plans donīt like me very much =/
They bring Submerge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vandalize
Vandalize, how do you sideboard against Folks?
I'm not Vandalize but for the Merfolk matchup, I recommend siding in REBs, rough tumbles and 1 grudge just in case they land jitte. An online jitte can be troublesome in the long run.
With a list like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
18 Lands
4 Goyf
4 Goose
4 Delver
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 FoW
4 Daze
4 Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Rough/Tumble
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
On the draw: -1 Daze -1 Spell Pierce -4 Stifle +3 Pyroblast +1 Ancient Grudge +2 Rough/Tumble
On the play: -4 Stifle -1 Ponder +3 Pyroblast +2 Rough/Tumble
Stifle is pretty bad against folks, it can only protect your lands vs Wasteland, and maybe counter a Vial activation (which might gain some tempo). Spell Pierce is also awful, but on the play you can counter their first AEther Vial.
But, actually this matchup is about resolving Goyf and killing lords.
I tend to keep Stifles in, as I lost some games when they wasted my sole colored land and kicked me out of game. Do you have some special plan against this, or do you just sit on fetches for as long as possible?
For those running Zuran Orb: why? Burn matchup obviously but is there some other reason?
im like this: + 3 blast + 2 rough + 1 grudge - - 2 Fow - 4 Stifle , if opp dont have vial in play daze is very good.
One more thing I remembered - Stifle is pretty good against Relic, though you may use Needle in Stifle's place, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Crane
On Zuran Orb: Imho ppl packing Zorb simply decided they will not lose against cheap deck. If your meta is burn-heavy, this card ain't bad, it comes down pretty fast (unless your cantrips suck) and might be used in response to PoP/Vortex and simply keep you in game for long enough to ride the Goyfs home. Personally I don't play it, as I dislike how narrow it is, but next time I'll lose to burn like I did recently, I may find a place for one bonsai.
I played a nigh-singletons-only sb for a while to see what works for me and what does not. I came to a conclusion that there are several cards I really love and I consider up their numbers.
1) Pithing Needle. Solves several annoying cards like DRS and Liliana, morevoer shuts down any number of them. Has applications also in other matchups like randomly cutting off Ceph. Colliseum or whatever.
2) I can't decide on correct number/split of Rough//Tumble and Sulfur Elemental. I like the utility and split second of the latter, but it does very little agaist Dark Confidant decks where Rough shines instead. It's brilliant against Gobos, too, whih isn't exactly the best matchup.
3) Submerge as three of. There are times when I wish to cut it and use something more bomby like Mind Harness, Gilded Drake or even Threads of Disl., but then again I see how the instant nature and the zero manacost screams "TEMPO!" Also, it's the only way how to reliably save Goyfs from Decays, so...
4) Red Blast / Flusterstorm. These fight for the same slot, unfortunately they don't work the same, as REBs may act like a removal, while Flusterstom has the pro of been much better against not only combo, but also against fetch-Stifle in mirror. Also, Pyroblasting one in a million of Storm's cantrips might be weak, otoh, they'll discard your Flus before they combo out, so slowing their development (by blasting their cantrips) might be a good call.
5) GY hate slots. I'm totally confused about this. I hardly ever meet a graveyard deck like Ichorid or similar stuff, and while it's pretty good to have something against PiF (and KotR?), frankly the Crypt and Cage aren't completely interchangeble. Also, with mere two slots devoted to grave, I may just as well use these slots for anythng else, be it LftL, additional Flusterstorms, some removal or whatever.
6) I still can't make my mind on Divert/Misdirection. I used it, but was always completely disappointed, so what's the popular opinion?
7) I think I'll move Clique main, it's fine to have someone to ride for victory after all your dudes get Bolted/Decayed.
So, with a maindeck that looks like this...:
57x Canadian Threshold
1x Spell Snare
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Forked Bolt
..does it make sense to build sb like this?
2x Rough//Tumble
3x Submerge
1x Krosan Grip
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Pyroblast
2x Flusterstorm
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Pithing Needle
What am I missing, what's redundant? :really:
I don't think clique will work--the decks that are decaying and bolting your dudes will also be wasting (or in the case of tempo archetypes stifling as well) your lands. Hitting three mana will be an uphill battle.
In non waste matches, clique is alright, but not spectacular. As a threat it drops (at the earliest) two turns too late, and its effect is relatively weak. It has no bombiness to it (unlike, say, sulfur elemental) or beef (3/1).
In short, I'd sooner run a forked bolt, dismember or even Fire//Ice over it.
EDIT: SB, however, looks great. The only cards I dislike is crypt (solid but there are probably better cards) and cage, which has been complete dogshit for me. Haven't played it since elves got big tho
iīm dont like clique, since decay down a counterbalance, with more death and taxes im think sulfur elemental is better choice or ooze.
Im like use one surgical extraction against loam+punishing fire decks and sometimes against Intuitions from Hightide and SnT, im considering use 2 surgical or 1 surgical 1 tormondīs, never 1 cage.
Problem with Surgical/Crypt is that contrary to Cage, they don't completely stop Dredge and once they'll force you to play/crack the card, they may burst out. Cage just sits in play and annoys them. Also it's much better against PiF combo, although Crypt is solid when they try CRit->IT.
I definitely must think about Clique again. Abrupt Decay changed a lot, and the one aditional (moreover evasive) creature with power of 3 may be the difference. ALso, it's quite solid against combo and control and even the tempo matchups someties take a bit longer than just StifleWasteDazeGG.
I like Vendilion Clique. You don't really board it in vs Abrupt Decay decks anyway, it's more for combo decks and blue based decks like Miracles since it's harder to hit with Counterbalance. Playing it maindeck is a little sketch though. Don't get me wrong (I did it for awhile) but vs Wasteland decks it can be tough to cast.
No offense, but I haven't even SEEN a dredge player since October 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
Surgical in my opinion suffers from "too little too late" syndrome. Yeah sometimes you'll have a "gotcha!" moment and blow out your opponent but the majority of the time the problem card has already resolved, and if it's surgical-worthy then it is too late.
In short, surgical is reactive, we want to be proactive. Crypt (more or less) forces a dredge player to overextend.
My point with the tempo match was simply that cheap, efficient threats are needed to win. Clique is made of glass. Ooze, however, looks enticing.
Yep, exactly my thoughts, I'm glad you confirmed them. Still, I think I'll try the maindeck faerie, at least I'll be 100% sure how it works and may either adopt it or abandon it for good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziveeman
Yes, I also seen zero Ichorids not counting my very own... :) It was meant more like an additional pro of Crypt, not it's main feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
Yes, Ooze is also a good idea, but frankly, does the 1 mana matters, when we may play Clique EOT? Also, Ooze is quite fragile (at least the first turn) and we fon't play that much green to feed it extremely fast. Moreover, it may rush away from Bolt range quite fast, but Decay still hits it.
One more thing, too: although I stated that Clique is meant to be used because of Decay, it isn't the sole reason. The whole premise is that ever since post-Decay when our creatures became more vulnerable, I look for one more slot to fill the gap that opposing Decays leave in my offense. Clique with its eva, flash and power=3 is quite capable attacker, at least it may from-EOT onslaught Jace/Lili,AND she also has very powerful effect (at least in some matchups). Yes, the three mana hurt, but realistically - it's just a one single card that won't clog our hands and in mid/long game it can break the stall, esp. in the mirror, which is dominated by Goyf stares and shower of bolts that kill the Delvers.
I'm still unconvinced that decay has forced RUG to change in any fundamental way. Yeah it's uncountable but we just have to attack it from the angle we can: mana denial. Our wastes and stifles can still save us in the early turns.
Honestly, DRS is much more of a problem card than decay, imo, since he hurts goose, our only decay-proof threat, terribly.