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pure control doesn't pay anymore in modern meta. you have to put a clock on the opponent WHILE you control the board, else you just survive until your death.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Blue creatures are not good at that because of Pyroblast and Wasteland. Stoneforge and Mentors do. He was playing them both. He won because of that.
Sulfur Elemental could have been fine either.
3cc cards are always sweet in a metagame infested with Show and Tell.
it gets boseiju.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Also, but that matchup is almost an auto win IF you have both Containment Priest and Ethersworn Canonist or cc3 on top..Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
anyway yes, that's another major target.
Wait, how is that true?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
They cast Emrakul off Omniscience. Not SnT.
SnTQuote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
RESP: Containment Priest (or Karakas into play)
SnT resolves. he can only play Omniscience, you drop Canonist.
Nothing can be played anymore but artifacts
In your turn you Tear/REB his Omniscience. And counter with Counterbalance in case..
this is the perfect situation, which doesn't occur often but you just hold 1 of your three Canonist in hand/topdeck all time and you win against Omniscience.
2 Karakas
3 Canonist
2 Priest
4 Counterbalance
in my 75
With the Containment Priest line, doesn't your Containment Priest exile your own Canonist off SnT? He can then drop Omniscience and proceed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Yes, your Canonist would be gone thanks to Priest This line is no good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timbeef
Wow. Simply wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Also, Priest is not a card you bring in against Omnitell. They will almost NEVER Show in an Emrakul. In the off-chance that they have to, they will never, and I mean NEVER, do so against a deck holding up :1::w:. And if they're a bad enough player to take this line of play, they can choose not to Show in anything at all once Priest resolves.
you're right, I'm sorry.
Karakas plan then or Rule of Law instead of Canonist..
Canonist is just better because you can turn 2 it against Storm and it's almost always a blowout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Just don't bring in Priest in Omnitell because it's not a card you want in the matchup.
And they have wasted 1 of their obly 4 cards we fear while we have just played a 2/2 flash keeping all the hand up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Anyway, please, let's get back to the point: Wasteland is good here as well.
It kills opponent's scarce, in current meta, lands
mirror's Karakas
Omnitell Boseiju
Wasteland is definitely good against Omnitell's Boseiju and decks that are *generally* unfavorable MU's (43 Lands.dec, MUD, 12-Post). If your meta is filled with those, you should definitely consider playing that GP Kyoto list. But for an unknown meta, Wasteland isn't really a card you want to have. Though I can see it becoming more and more popular because of decks starting to play more Cavern of Souls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
We'll have to see where the meta goes from here.
Lands is not an unfavorable matchup (especially G1), and Wasteland is a liability against them if you are skimping on basics to fit Wastelands in.
Lands is not unfavorable MU. I haven't lost to Lands in like... a year now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Hmm. The guy in my playgroup that plays it is using some BUG Lands/Smokestack brew and I have some difficulty playing against.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Seriously, how is this relevant to anyone else but you??? The point of this forum is to discuss a deck in the context of what is broadly the legacy metagame. Yes, there might be local differences and that's fine, but you can't just say 'Lands is a bad M/U' and then say 'oh, but when I say lands, I don't mean what everyone else thinks, I mean this other thing that nobody can relate to.' This is totally useless information.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Wasteland seems like a really horrible way to answer a problem that is not even that big. Yes, Boseiju turns off our counterspells - then we play Clique, we play hatebears, we play redblasts to counter the first spell after SnT. Wasteland is just narrow and counterproductive to our plan, why would we do that?
So I only played 6 matches with the Mentor list, will probably get more when I decide that I won't be greedy and buy Daze on MTGO. With that being said:Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
1. Depends fully on the MU, I try to at least make one token with Mentor while playing him as safe as possible. Cavern helps a great deal obv, but generally four mana is where I want to be before I cast Mentor. In the tournament I mostly sided out Daze and FoW. Being that I was on the draw very often (Daze not as good) and playing against Tempodecks where I didn't want to trade 2-1 (FoW out). The thing is that Mentor really can get out of hand pretty fast, so it's a very good way of board control as long as you don't play him too greedy.
2. Never had a situation where I wanted to Terminus away my stuff. Don't think it will occur that often with eight cantrips and four Tops as the card selection is very high.
3. Don't like the Bolt plan. You can still play this deck like a regular Miracles which feels great, lean back and wait for you opponent to act, or go on the offensive and play a more tempo oriented plan. Switching the strategies depending on how your opponent acts makes this deck stronger, as he doesn't know how he can counteract your gameplan. So I wouldn't actually scrap the control route that's available. This might obv change when people are getting used to the deck.
For all the Omnitell discussion, the unbeatable line is:
Have Karakas, Canonist and REB / Pyroblast in hand. Drop Canonist into SNT, then REB Omniscience or play Karakas in your next turn if he put in Emrakul. Of note here is that playing the removal spell for Omniscience must happen in their turn, as they can just counter your spell and you can't back because of Canonist in your turn.
Also, there seems to be some slight misconception regarding counterspells in this MU. As I've seen, the Omnitell player will wait a few more turns if he can then play SnT off Boseiju, so CB doesn't work that well in that regard. The best hate is imho to get proactive, meaning to play Canonist / Clique or even Meddling Mage off a Cavern and start pressuring him. If you give them the time to assemble their stuff, bad things will happen. In my experience, winning the counterwar against their business spells with an Omniscience on the field is close to impossible.
this: Karakas in the pitch and Canonist in handQuote:
Originally Posted by mort-
if you have CB with floating 3cc, you're pretty much to the goal.
Wasteland is another very good card to draw in that marchup
Well the taxing effects of Ports is something that our decks have trouble dealing with.Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
Hey guys, here's the list for not only Top 8, but Top 16.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2015-07-05
I really like Yohan Dodognon's version. It's wrong for me to make fun of European's names, but I cannot stop myself from chuckling. :smile:
Guys, don't worry about Mentor Miracles, I'm going to practice my Stoneblade deck, in case SDT got banned. Actually, in a SDT banned Legacy, Esper Mentor might just take off.
i think the card they should ban is monastery mentor. it's way too insane IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
Hey guys. Im back from Lille! Had a blast. I didn't do good 5-4. But that was actually my goal so I was fine with that. I have never drank more water than I did in Lille. I will just name the matchups with a comment since I didn't do well, and just wanted to comment the deck I used.
@mort- Really unfortunate not reaching day2 there despite the good start :( Off-topic: Are you Mortred on MODO? Since I was talking with Mortred under the name as Azunyan_ talking about the 20 lands 4 ponder.
My list can be found few pages back. The 21 lands 3 ponder was a small amount of awkward. I have two karakas which is probably a really big deal, it seems I don't have enough blue sources for ponder(?) The list YOHAN DODOGNON used is probably the most "optimized" list which I would experiment with. Actually suprised that there were only 2 Swords. And he got away with it(?)
So my matchups were:
My matchups was a some of the unexpected. I prepared for a lot of Omni-tell and miracles. My friends met a lot of miracles while I met random Foodchain, Dredge, merfolk... (I know it is viable decks, but wasn't exactly expecting strange decks more than one time. Maybe this just describe that Legacy is healthy? :D)
0-2 Food chain. I had no experience with food chain and my opponent was only playing french cards... Could someone explain the goal? Float CB on three / four for griff. Do keep CB despite Decays?
0-2 Merfolk. Simply just got overrun. Was landshort both games despite having multiple Ponder.
2-0 4c good stuff. A homebrew(?) of just the good stuff you can play, tasigur, strix, decay, shaman and so on.
0-2 Death & Taxes. Vial is horrible to deal with, with no Council main. Despite having two plains out, two port kept me off terminus. (had no top to draw @upkeep) The same happened g2. It was good games and interactions tho. Really like this matchup.
2-0 Omni-tell. This guy played Boseju main... So the float on three didn't help much. As he show&tell, I put venser bouncing his omniscience countering his wish. Best feeling ever :D My opponent kept a non-island explosive hand, and he never drew the Island.
2-1 Omni-tell. Lost g1 to an explosive start. G2 and G3 was just me finding the canonist and sealing the deal with beatdowns.
1-2 Burn. Won g1 off CB, g2 was me finding answer to his Vortex. Did not find it. G3 was me keeping a mull6 karakas + top + ponders. I got really punished. My other land was another Karakas...
2-0 Death&Taxes. Forcing his vial kept CB alive. He didnt have another one. Entreat sealed the game. I wish I had another Entreat in these matchups. Pretty much the same g2.
2-1 Dredge. Didnt find any terminus g1. g2 and g3 was me killing off my dudes(who needs gravehate :D) and terminus away zombies. was a better matchup than I thought.
All in all I Enjoyed myself and deck despite always drinking water and going to WC after game. I will probably need new sleeves because of the sweat... I enjoyed some 8 mans with friends on sunday. The temperature was much better, sunday was best day. And I got the top mat signed my Philipp and Hagon. So much fun! I didn't have enough time to get top and mat signed by artist tho. There was a LONG queue with people wanting alters...
I really like the deck and hope it slides through next B&R announcement. Tho we should probably get a list without Digs ready. I beat decks I expected to meet so I should be a little proud of myself :)
Lately I've been wondering whether Canonist or Meddling Mage in the sideboard is better currently. I have tried both and they both seem fine, but I wanted to hear your opinions on it. Here's my list for reference. It's pretty much the same maindeck as the GP winning list with a slightly different sideboard.
4 Monastery Mentor
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Island
1 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Daze
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
2 Pyroblast
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder
3 Terminus
SB
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ethersworn Canonist/Meddling Mage
1 Rest in Peace
2 Flusterstorm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Pyroclasm
Yes, I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azunjan
@goblinsplayer
Ethersworn Canonist is by far the better card, Meddling Mage is more flexible and can also be very good against some random matchups were you want to shutdown cards that you can't shut down otherwise. Food Chain and the Griffins would be the best example for that. If there's room I'd probably play both, if not it's a clear yes for Canonist.
They're annoying, but not the end of the world, as they aren't backed up by a quick clock. Against RG Lands, G1 they cannot beat Counterbalance with a two on top. There's more play to the post-board games due to Krosan Grip, but you can overload them with RiP, Blood Moon, Relic, etc. The blue versions of Lands are a lot tougher.Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Miracles without Dig is just a massive revert back to list before GP NJ, before Khan, which is early 2014. And then, you make the decision to go for extra JtMS or go for mentor build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Azunjan
Yes, I don't know why people are saying 'Miracles is too powerful, ban dig', or even 'please don't ban dig, I love Miracles'. Miracles will be more dominant than today if dig is banned. How do people not see this?Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
43
totally! DTT is one of the worst card we can play against!
we hate opponent CA, we love him in hellbent mode
Here is the list i played to a 14th place finish:
22 LANDS
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Volcanic Island
5 CREATURES
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Snapcaster Mage
23 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Terminus
2 Dig Through Time
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ponder
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Counterspell
10 OTHER SPELLS
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SIDEBOARD
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Council's Judgment
1 Wear / Tear
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pyroclasm
I had only one bye this time (i had 2 two months ago for GP Paris ( :frown: ) where i finished 11th with 4C Collected Company).
I won against Jeskai Delver (2-0), Elves (2-0), Affinity (2-0), Omnishow (2-1), Miracles (2-1), Reanimator (2-1), BUG Devler (2-0), Omnishow (2-1), 4c Delver (2-0), Miracles (2-0), Reanimator (2-0) and lost Round 6 vs MUD (1-2), Round 10 vs Storm (1-2 against Jamie Westlake who finished 12th) and the decisive Round 13 (1-2 against a friend playing Infect who lost the last 2 rounds :frown:).
The decks worked perfectly well and i like my version against a field of Miracles, Omnishow and Delver decks.
RiP was MVP in my sideboard and single-handedly won me 3 matches (against 2 BUG Delver and 1 Reanimator).
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. I will answer.
Yohan DUdognon
Absolutely, I'll be very happy to see the back of DTT!Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
On the subject of Mentor, I think it shores up one of the biggest problems the deck has at large tournaments. Time. Even if piloted by someone competent, Miracles can just take ages to kill even if the game is won a long time ago. Personally I like the idea of 2-3 in the SB, it keeps your opponent guessing if they need to have removal and can put games away quickly if G1 goes long and is lost. Being white is great too, dodging all the Pyros and REBs everywhere.
1. Food chainQuote:
Originally Posted by Azunjan
This MU is tricky. Try to stop the first Manipulate fate without losing to food chain. The longer you can delay the griffin plan the better. Yes, the end goal is to float 3 and 4 via CB, but often we don't get there. If food chain resolves somehow, your only plan left is to deny him from having any creatures not named DRS. Try to use StP on DRS, use Red Blast effect on Griffin/Manipulate Fate/Dig.
Some Food chain players take out Food Chain in the SB games, trying to blank enchantment hate for more beats.
2. DnT
Council isn't exactly what you expect it to be in DnT. Often he'll have Thalia in play, bump Council to 4 CMC. If he can Port you down before the 4th land, the outcome of the game might be decided before you can finally bypass Port + Thalia using Council, that's not to mention Flickerwisp.
1. I disagree a bit. I'd rather focus on Food Chain and not spent your cards trying to counter MF, as the griffins can be removed pretty easily with Terminus and/or REB later on while he can cascade into another MF. The problem is really that you need to find a clock rather than giving him time to build up his board as his engine is pretty annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
2. Agreed. I also don't like Council atm. For me it was THE card to handle Liliana, but Mentor does this pretty well. So there's actually no need for it in the 75.
There are a number of scenarios that it's gotten me out of trouble from recently. Gaddock Teeg with Mother of Runes and Choke off my two basics plains spring to mind first, I've also exiled so many Sword of Fire and Ice with it. I really like having a catch all card in the 60, despite how clunky it is. But this is talking solely about the non-MD Mentor version.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
Except for the Mother / Gaddock scenario, having two Disenchant effects SB seems to be way better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
That's why it's important to ban the Top. Hopefully that will happen this time and then Miracles just becomes another Tier 2 deck like all the others!Quote:
Originally Posted by FortyThree
Hi, i'm Claudio Bonanni :tongue:
I'll do the report about the GP, but i need some time, my english is not very good!
Thx to all!
Hi man, congrats on your finish. Waiting to Know how you feel about the dazes maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by B88
Congratulation!!
When I said 43 Lands.dec, I was talking about the controlly versions of lands. I have never had a problem with RG Combo Lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
DODOGNON DISLIKES SMOKEQuote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I feel like the Lands matchup should be pretty good for us, we have a legit out to Marit Lage tokens and can generally beat them faster than they can kill us with Punishing Fire, and their lock pieces affect us a lot less than other decks. Obviously, versions running Karakas are even better, and at this point I feel like legendary creatures are so problematic (Marit Lage, Thalia, Gaddock Teeg) that it's worth finding room for a Karakas even in the Ponder versions.
Obviously it gets much better if you run Wasteland/RIP/Pithing Needle (on Thespian's Stage).