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It is not important to run many rack effects; it is important to run SOME rack effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
Preferably in conjuction with a creature like Bloodghast. Then, when you cast Pox, you will kill his blocker, land and card in hand. If the opponent tries to play another creature, he need to play a land. This means he is guaranteed to take six life loss (turn X+1 and X+2)if you are using shrieking affliction.
This approach is very effective against Ensnaring Bridge.
For those running Karn, are you running any of the mirrodin artifact lands (Vault of whispers I think)? Or is that opening up too much to artifact hate?
I think we are weak enough to blood moon that this would hurt more than it would help. My list has 11 Swamps and 12 non-basics already, and I'm trying to cast 16+ double black spells. I have 5 artifacts in the main deck (2 ratchet Bomb, 2 Cursed Scroll, and 1 Pithing Needle and Mishra's Factory's that pump while activated. I'm not worried about trying to make the tokens bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
On Rack effects: I don't like win conditions in pox that are only win conditions. I like my wins to come from cards that served some disruptive or structural purpose already. Karn, Cursed Scroll, and Mishra's Factory do a good job of this. I have a Bitterblossom as my only dedicated win condition, and against Lands/Depths it is closer to a lock piece.
Adachi-san is back on the map.
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=27480&iddeck=220250
Pox harder, people!
Interesting notion. I can see your reasoning, but think it applies better on disruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntropy
A threat must always be neutralized but disruption can just be endured. I mostly mulligan starting hands lacking a threat of some kind. Shrieking affliction do count as one:cool:
Pffh, it plays Dark Rituals and Beseech the Queen. Deck is bad. [/sarcasm]Quote:
Originally Posted by sonorous
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
If I ran a list similar or even identical to Adachi-san's list, would having 4 Hypnotic Specters (in the side) be good tech?
I really just want to run 4 hyppies like back in the day when Dark Ritual was a MANA SOURCE and both strip mine and wasteland were legal :wink:
Some cards get a come back occasionally. It depends on the meta.Quote:
Originally Posted by non-inflammable
If you try it then I recommend Unearth for a quick replay once the hippie is destroyed or countered.
Actually i think he is tutoring for silver bullet LANDS. (That would explain the odd mana base.) Ritual help avoid land drop until after tutor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
The deck is not spectacular, but I figure the pilot is a good player with odd preferences.
I understand that, and it's probably the best use of Beseech, honestly. It however can also get the singleton Ensnaring Bridge, which can stabilize in a big way, or any spot removal to also stabilize. The point is flexibility, and Beseech for Wasteland/Maze of Ith/Bojuka Bog is really cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Do people play rhystic tutor anymore? I'm wondering if it may be worthy of testing in the beseech slot. Since were on the mana denial plan, the cost may be unpayable for the opponent, it doesn't reveal the card, and doesn't require BBB in the cost.
Obviously the drawback is its a dead card if they can pay the cost.
And why not Grim Tutor ? It's just more flexible than BTQ and more reliable than Rhystic tutor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronco
I've seen either him or someone else play a similar list with 1 Grim and 0 BeseechQuote:
Originally Posted by ParisFlorian
Rhystic is really bad I think because if your opponent is hellbent and they topdeck a land and say go, then obviously they will have 2 mana available
I'm quite surprised this list isn't playing Crucible of Worlds
Not only do you have 4 Wasteland (and the 1 Tutor to search Crucible), it's also playing 1 Cabal Pit and 1 Ifnir Deadlands (the latter of which is particularly good with Crucible because -1-1 counters can potentially kill something like a Gurmag over a few turns)
I guess Dark Ritual is more justifiable when you have 6 Lilianas 1 Bridge and 2 Nether Void maindeck
I still think Last Hope is underutilized in a deck with 0 creatures but I'm not sure which ones you would want to play
If you play creatures that aren't free then they die to your own innocent blood / smallpox and if you play ones that do come back for free then you don't need to recur them with Liliana. You have the secondary problem that big creatures can't attack through your own Bridge. Maybe something like Shriekmaw is ok
I also quite like the idea of NOSB / Darkblast to kill X/2s with Liliana or even just 1 Raven's Crime in the 27 land attrition deck but I can't really suggest changes because I have no feel for how strong this list is vs the meta or how flexible it is. (e.g. I think he has played Disk and Crucible in the past, but now he has cut these).
I'm just going to test this exact 75, the recent games I played with the 8 Rack version I think that the other people were right that you can't afford to use 8 cards on things that are just threats
Ryosuke is the guy who played a Grim Tutor
He monkeys with his lists a lot, I wouldn't take any single one of them as gospel. In fact Crucible has been in almost all of his lists, I'm surprised by its absence as well. I think overall the list is just a good version of the prison strategy. There are some constants, like 26-27 lands, 2 voids, 4 LoTV + 1-2 LiLH, 3-4 Dritual, only 2-3 Hymn, the Beseech package with at least a bridge
Testing that 75 wouldn't be bad, but there are small flexes you can make to fit your meta better. Like drop the totems maybe if you don't expect too much combo and expect more Delver and the like.
Surprised not to see him trying Karn. Or maybe he did and it didn't work for him.
Bloodline Keeper in the board is super spicy. Stops Marit Lage with infinite tokens, and is a wincon if you want it. Still more of a fan of Fiend though, and if you wanted creature for LiLH to reanimate...
Holy Urborg look at that manabase!
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Maze of Ith
1 Spawning Pool
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
9 Snow-Covered Swamp
27 Lands, 4 Rituals AND 2 Totems? That's pretty much all the mana ever. You're probably going need it to when jamming Nether Void every game or comboing out with Beseech or whatever.
9 basics is crazy talk. I wonder how often Adachi runs into Dragon Stompy or any other Blood Moon lists. I have been strongly considering dropping all nonbasics except for a lone Maze of Ith. I've been Mooned and Wastelanded enough times to lose some faith in them. Beyond that Urborg has helped my opponent out an annoying amount of times and being Legendary doesn't make it any better. Wasteland and Mishra's Factory are absolutly amazing cards but we run a lot of double black. This leads to throwing away great but uncastable hands and unfortunately we don't mulligan very well.
Urborg and Wasteland feel more cuttable than Factory. Perhaps Snow is what we've been missing. Has anybody tried out any of the singleton non-normal nonbasic lands?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntropy
I NEVER CONSIDERED THIS! I AM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW! I definitely dig Bitterblossom over Bloodline. Lands has been a pretty difficult matchup lately and this seems like a solid addition to my already gluttonous gameplan.Quote:
Originally Posted by aslidsiksoraksi
The lands player have two answers to this: punishing fire, and krosan grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by naynay666
Oh I'm very aware. I run into the deck a lot as it is well represented at my weekly and monthly. The current plan can swap in 11 cards from the sideboard- but the current plan doesn't always work out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
2x Pithing Needle (Thespian)
2x Ensnaring Bridge (Marit)
2x Extirpate (DD, Thesp, P Fire or Loam)
2x Lost Legacy (P Fire or K Grip if ahead)
3x Leyline of the Void (GY antics)
Usually in exchange for: all Smallpox, both Push, both Lil' Hope, IOK, Deluge and 1 I. Blood. Unless you can force their combo with Wasteland sorcery speed edicts don't work very often. Other decks (with Swamps) seem to lean on Diabolic Edict, but they also have the luxury of being able to dig for it with a faster clock.
I am excited to try 2-3 Bitterblossoms out.
What does everybody else do against Lands/Depths decks? I never really run into Depths but Land variants run rampant in my area.
Bloodline Keeper doesn't look great against lands, honestly. I can see it as a grindy token-maker, but I don't see that as better than planeswalkers or Bitterblossom. I'm pretty sure Lands could deal with Keeper just fine.
For lands I would much rather be playing Surgical Extraction or some sort of grave hate. They rely on their graveyard so much. I think Lands is one of the matchups where Lost Legacy is worth considering as well.
He needs the extra mana sources because so many of his lands either don't produce mana at all, or at least not black mana. They are spells, not lands. I would be uncomfortable with only 9 swamps, even with 4 Urborgs.Quote:
Originally Posted by naynay666
With no rituals i would consider replacing leyline of the void with something cheaper to cast, or go up to four to increase the odds of having one to put into play at start.Quote:
Originally Posted by naynay666
Myself I run Nihil spellbomb to avoid nerfing my Own Nihiliths.