[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

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Originally Posted by Michael Keller

My list runs green for Sylvan Safekeeper, Veil of Summer, Sylvan Library and a small Crop Rotation package in the sideboard.

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Is Dismember your removal of choice?

Standstill is somewhat mediocre in mono blue cause of the lack of hard removal. I could see you wanting to cut it for Ponders

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Originally Posted by Rood

Standstill is somewhat mediocre in mono blue cause of the lack of hard removal. I could see you wanting to cut it for Ponders

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Considering your exhaustive amount of experience with this deck, do you feel playing fetches + basics is enough or are the dual lands a true lynchpin to success?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

Considering your exhaustive amount of experience with this deck, do you feel playing fetches + basics is enough or are the dual lands a true lynchpin to success?

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Swords/Fatal Push/Lightning bolt imo are what make Standstill good. Being able to clear a huge threat for 1 mana then deploy Standstill is very good. All mono blue has really is Dismember which you cant really run as a 4-of. So its tough to justify running SS without true hard dedicated removal

Off topic: the cards that are manifested with Scroll go to the graveyard when they die, correct?

Correct. May I see your list?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I have Scalding Tarns, Flooded Strands, and Misty Rainforests. Fetches aren't the issue, it's that I don't know if its worth making a sub-par mana-base to accommodate a splash color. With Volcanics? Sure, the splash is worth it. Without them, I don't know if it's better to just play Dismember (which I am doing currently.) Dismember does everything Bolt does other than deal 3 to the face, and even deals with bigger threats. The drawback of 4 life is significant if games go long, but I'm not intending them to go long. I play a more tempo-oriented version that is looking for a Dreadnought/Gargoyle to finish games quickly. Scroll spams the battlefield with 2/2's or enables Dreadnoughts. Also of note is that I am not playing Standstills currently, but rather Ponder based on my mediocre results with Standstill at the LGS.

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Totally understand wanting to be safe with a mana base, esp with the amount of non-basic hate that seems to be running around. That being said, I think that stated goal of wanting to end games quickly more often than not plays better with what Fox called a "unified strategy", and Bolt fits the "win faster" plan better than Dismember. Someone even posted a few pages ago that the best-case-scenario math plays nicely with what you want to do; Nought + Gargoyle + Bolt = 20.

The biggest thing you lose out on without the Volcanic Island is Daze protection which admittedly fits nicely with your tempo-oriented list. But chances are you're going to be holding back your Bolts anyways and wouldn't be fetching that dual as an early drop, unless something comes up that absolutely needs to be answered and you need to force through an answer. Between your Brainstorms and Ponders, I don't think it should be too difficult to hit the single R by the time you'll need to finish off an opponent who's already taken a Nought and some 2/2's to the face.

(I haven't played much of this deck, but Landstill had a similar concept where we would hide a R source until we wanted to drop a Firespout or Engineered Explosives to punish over extending.)

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Originally Posted by crispymelee

Totally understand wanting to be safe with a mana base, esp with the amount of non-basic hate that seems to be running around. That being said, I think that stated goal of wanting to end games quickly more often than not plays better with what Fox called a "unified strategy", and Bolt fits the "win faster" plan better than Dismember. Someone even posted a few pages ago that the best-case-scenario math plays nicely with what you want to do; Nought + Gargoyle + Bolt = 20.

The biggest thing you lose out on without the Volcanic Island is Daze protection which admittedly fits nicely with your tempo-oriented list. But chances are you're going to be holding back your Bolts anyways and wouldn't be fetching that dual as an early drop, unless something comes up that absolutely needs to be answered and you need to force through an answer. Between your Brainstorms and Ponders, I don't think it should be too difficult to hit the single R by the time you'll need to finish off an opponent who's already taken a Nought and some 2/2's to the face.

(I haven't played much of this deck, but Landstill had a similar concept where we would hide a R source until we wanted to drop a Firespout or Engineered Explosives to punish over extending.)

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Thanks for the feedback! I have played into the 'burn them out' strategy before in Urx decks (I do it often in Modern), I just don't feel that 4 Bolts is enough. I would want at least 6-8 burn spells or other sources of direct damage (like Lavaman) to reliably turn them into a finisher. Once I go past 4 Bolts I don't think a set of Scalding Tarn + Mountain would reliably get me there. I think it would be a 'bad' version of UR delver. I also am guaranteed, almost 100% confidence, that I will face at least 1 Moon Stompy list at the 1K. It's a very popular deck and hits top8 often. This actually plays into the red splash fine but doesn't address Chalice. Add a few Eldrazi decks to the Moon lists, a half dozen D&T, and 2+ on Lands, S&T, Storm, Depths, Stoneblade, RUG Delver, and you have my local metagame. Most of the mix relies on some sort of land-based interaction. Budget is the major concern, but if an all-Island mana-base doesn't work in the current metagame I'll just play a different deck (I also have Turbo Depths, which is doing well but has it's own challenges.)

I hope this deck takes off...i got 2 playsets of the dreadnoughts, knowing they are on the list.

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Originally Posted by KobeBryan

I hope this deck takes off...i got 2 playsets of the dreadnoughts, knowing they are on the list.

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Hopefully you got them at $10-15 apiece b/c that‘s honestly what they should cost. This $60 pricetag we‘re starting to see is a bit over the top.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I have Scalding Tarns, Flooded Strands, and Misty Rainforests. Fetches aren't the issue, it's that I don't know if its worth making a sub-par mana-base to accommodate a splash color. With Volcanics? Sure, the splash is worth it. Without them, I don't know if it's better to just play Dismember (which I am doing currently.) Dismember does everything Bolt does other than deal 3 to the face, and even deals with bigger threats. The drawback of 4 life is significant if games go long, but I'm not intending them to go long.

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@Mr. Safety: You seem to be a pretty dedicated Legacy player, in it for the long haul, etc. (I'm assuming this based on you're activity on this forum here.) So honestly, if I were you I'd just find a way to get that 1st Volc somehow. It's really all you need: Dual #2 in most 2-color fetch mana bases can be replaced with a Shock, #3 can often just be a basic (see some UR Delver builds). I don't have access to unlimited Duals, but I really don't like playing subpar decks either, so weighing out worthwhile investments vs. not getting sucked into spending bizarre sums on fricken wizard-game cards is to strike a tricky balance. But tbh, best thing I ever did is buylist off a bunch of semi-valuable RL/apparently Commander-playable cards I had lying around (incl. a bunch of commons and uncommons), then threw in a few remaining dollars for my first Volc. As soon as you're there, you have so many new options for building.

As for the decks at hand: One might venture that mono-U with 4life-per-removal (dismember) isn't even really much easier on your life total than splash red for Bolts (+ Blasts & Abrades) with 2 Shocks straight up, no basics. (you're right in that including a basic for a very light splash is a real downside, even when we're using more colorless mana than most xerox decks.)

Just my 2 cents. If the BLing or other ways to obtain that dual are not an option atm, that's cool. But perhaps something to consider for the future..

And good luck at that upcoming tourney!!

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Originally Posted by Fox

Hopefully you got them at $10-15 apiece b/c that‘s honestly what they should cost. This $60 pricetag we‘re starting to see is a bit over the top.

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25 a piece

A budget manabase of

4x Tarn
2x Vista
2x Delta
3x Island
1x Mountain
1x Volcanic
4x Factory
3x Waste

Is what I would start with if I were you Safety. That manabase can work if you are pressed on volcanics as you can essentially function with just 1.

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Originally Posted by Tobitzki

@Mr. Safety: You seem to be a pretty dedicated Legacy player, in it for the long haul, etc. (I'm assuming this based on you're activity on this forum here.) So honestly, if I were you I'd just find a way to get that 1st Volc somehow. It's really all you need: Dual #2 in most 2-color fetch mana bases can be replaced with a Shock, #3 can often just be a basic (see some UR Delver builds). I don't have access to unlimited Duals, but I really don't like playing subpar decks either, so weighing out worthwhile investments vs. not getting sucked into spending bizarre sums on fricken wizard-game cards is to strike a tricky balance. But tbh, best thing I ever did is buylist off a bunch of semi-valuable RL/apparently Commander-playable cards I had lying around (incl. a bunch of commons and uncommons), then threw in a few remaining dollars for my first Volc. As soon as you're there, you have so many new options for building.

As for the decks at hand: One might venture that mono-U with 4life-per-removal (dismember) isn't even really much easier on your life total than splash red for Bolts (+ Blasts & Abrades) with 2 Shocks straight up, no basics. (you're right in that including a basic for a very light splash is a real downside, even when we're using more colorless mana than most xerox decks.)

Just my 2 cents. If the BLing or other ways to obtain that dual are not an option atm, that's cool. But perhaps something to consider for the future..

And good luck at that upcoming tourney!!

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Thanks! Yes, getting a Volcanic is a high priority, lol.

Fox,

Come to the legacy 3k at Mox Bellevue this weekend. Spike dreadnought to $100.00 :tongue:

@Fallen_Empire
Too busy to drive so many hours this weekend. If it were two weekends from now I might have been able to go; after that the weather will start to get too questionable. :frown:
You‘ll have to bring the UW beats for both of us.
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For those on Vision Charm, don‘t forget that while land change option can turn off a line of Fetching a hostile Sanctuary, you‘re likely better off going with the mill mode after its trigger. If it‘s a removal spell they necro, probably let them draw it and then blank it with a phase out of target. There is a minor finesse possible with Scroll (whether or not oppo is on Sanctuary) with land change option to Stripmine away colors of their removal for the duration of their turn. This may allow unopposed 2/2 deployment with a guaranteed untap to defend it.

Sanctuary is one of those cards people are going to try and force in Snapcaster decks, despite being unable to support bounce. Consider Silent Gravestone in your SBs, and count Islands if you‘ve got a Wasteland for a blue dual.

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Originally Posted by Fallen_Empire

Fox,

Come to the legacy 3k at Mox Bellevue this weekend. Spike dreadnought to $100.00 :tongue:

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Yes please

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Originally Posted by Rood

Correct. May I see your list?

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I honestly don't even have one close to finalized. I am, for sure, playing Dreadnoughts at Eternal Weekend. It feels good slinging them again; did it for years in 1.5 when Mask was a big thing.

You on Scrolls? What kinda shell you on

To paraphrase the Rick and Morty cartoon: SHOW ROOD WHAT YOU GOOOOOOOOOOOOT. :laugh: