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At first I was going to ask how the hell any version of Nic Fit is hard for Maverick. But then I remember that I run Dark Depths vs a deck without Wasteland and whose removal all say destroy.
I keep forgetting how many matches turn into near byes because I run that combo.
The white versions of Nic Fit usually run some amount of StP's or Path to Exiles so you need Mother, which kind of plays into Deed/Deluge. But perhaps it still gives you decent chances (or even great as you say).Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
Like I said, its kind of been close to byes for me. The main ways I lose is if cabal therapies rip apart my hand early on and they resolve things before I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
More often than not even if they crack their veteran I just hardcast batterskull and most of their threats can't race it. As they start jumping through hoops to stop him, Knight or Mom gets through and the game is quickly made meaningless from there.
However, most of my lists run Revokers and prelates on the side, and often enough they can't really stop you turning off their sweepers with prelate on 3 or revoker on deed.
Cheers guys. I'm pretty much fine with having a dogshit Nic Fit matchup, but FWIW I don't run:
- Leyline
- Needle (though I have in the past)
- Revoker
- Stage/Depths
- Prelate
- Batterskull
- Path to Exile
- more than 3 Basics
So whatever. I'm not gonna lose sleep over occasionally getting wrecked by Thalia, Rhino, Swagtusk & co.
Agreed. Nic Fit isn't prevalent enough to actually worry about, and I wager it never will be as long as brainstorm and ponder are in the format
It appears we just desperataly wanted to discuss something. And I recently had a friend playing Nic Fit being surprised at how good Leyline was vs him, I thought I'd spread the word here too in case others are playing it and not using it in the matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Yup, in that case you're definitely fucked by that tier 3 deck. Only solution is to treat it like every other tier 3 deck. :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
I'm assuming this is a spy talking to another spy, in code, using different forums to post their responses to each other, probably based on a mirrored site sequencer to allow for parallel posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonofthewest
Because short of that I have ZERO idea what this post means.
He speaks German and owns an iPhone?
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
That part I get. I'm just trying to figure out why say that in a Maverick forum...Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Hey all, unfortunately with the summer schedule being what it is I'm tight on time/availability for testing. Has anyone been able to playtest our Crucible friend, Ramunap Excavator? If so, thoughts? He feels like a nice 1-of to slot in and GSZ once a Wasteland is in the bin or a KotR is on the board.
I've played with him about 20 games so far and he seems really very good. I played him as a 1-of and as a 2-of and i'm not sure yet what's the right number, probably 1. He's a quite nice target for equipments because you don't need to tap him for his ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheoryCraft
He's prob best in grindy matchups, but to be honest most matchups except combo are kinda grindy nowadays. There are really nice things we can do with him, which really help us:
- Wasteland lock
- infinite chump blockers with Dryad Arbor
- carddraw with Horizon Canopy
- replaying fetches to thin out deck from lands while expanding mana base
- nice fodder provider for Sylvan Safekeeper
- If you get him down, wastelands of you enemy basically seem hilarious if you can protect your Excavator
- probably nice with Ghostquarter in the sb, but i didnt try that yet and it didn't feel necessary
Basically i already don't want to miss excavator anymore, he's a house of a card.
Best regards,
Amace
probably trying it 2x
61 cards with 1x quarter (23 lands)
some decks play 1-2 basics, locking them main deck is so good, need to try it
The one thing I'd like is to add a bit more removal or ways to deal with deathrite if I'm going to play him.
what's the people opinions on the list with Aether vial?
I see they are scarce, yet there may be some powerful interaction with vial+rallier or istant speed dudes
reference list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23908&iddeck=186881
have there been updated discussion about going the vial route vs the zenith one? I see the zenith one is the most used set up, althrough I can't say I've seen a lot of Maverik around lately, I though after miracle was gone I'd see a surge of them, I've always been interested in the deck but never really get into it,
is it just still not competitive enough or is it more likely just people not trying out new/old/different things?
Thanks :D
I personally don't like the concept of Vial because unlike DNT, this deck doesn't run a lot of ETB ability cards. I mean I suppose you somewhat get around that with EOT-into-my-turn Vial activations, but you don't get the oomph of cards like Flickerwisp, Recruiter of the Guard, Revoker, etc. that do significant ETB work. GSZ turns us into a toolbox deck, which is at the heart of what makes Maverick. If you can make a solid Green & Taxes deck then go for it, but I think it's probably just better to go one route (GSZ-Maverick) or the other (Vial-DNT).Quote:
Originally Posted by NegatorITA
thanks this is very claryfing, and I was indeed trying to fit all the ETB cards in a maverick colored deck but it seems not to fit ahhaQuote:
Originally Posted by TheoryCraft
that said, what's a recent list of maverik looks like?
I've seen one with Lotus Cobra :O are these there for the Tireless Tracker clue tokens? :D looks interesting, albeit a bit odd :P
once Thalia 2.0 was released it was discussed to be a staple, but nowdays I've never seen it played, was her too soft?
Not a problem! Glad I could offer my humble opinion. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NegatorITA
I don't play Tireless Tracker or Lotus Cobra so I can't help you on that front. Lotus Cobra seems like a bad top-deck waiting to happen and Tireless Tracker, to me, seems to suffer from the "why would you GSZ for this over something else?" feeling. Who knows though, maybe people like it for Miracles or something.
I personally love Thalia 2.0 and find her indispensable as a 2-of, but that's just from my relatively limited play-testing. Her biggest weakness is being 3-cmc in a deck that already runs at least 4 or more 3-cmc spells (KotR, Renegade Rallier, etc.). However, if she hits the board she straight up wrecks Delver decks, and just a lot of decks in general. Playing Thalia 1.0 into Thalia 2.0 has in my experience been GG versus the vast majority of Legacy decks. I haven't done any big tournaments in a few years with Maverick, though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
My biggest worry with the new snake is the DRS effect. IE, sometimes games are shitty because you need to remove lands from your graveyard and it hurt's your KotR. With DRS, often the drawback is "worth" the boon. The same give and take has to be made with cards like Gaea's Cradle and Dark Depths.
So the big question, for me, is this: are the times this snake is good enough to make up for when this snake is mediocre/bad?
I think that is why you run it as a 1-of (at least that is what my initial testing will be). I don't think you necessarily want to see him in your opening hand on a regular or even semi-regular basis, but there will certainly be times where he may be an absolute bomb. Again, on a conceptual level you're typically only searching for him if you already have a Wasteland and/or KotR in play. I suppose if you're married to the DD/Thespian package he may be worth finding early as well since he can essentially threaten the combo every turn if they remove a piece. This is all hypothetical until mass testing occurs, of course. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
I want to run a pure GW list with 1-2 crucible snake, 4 wastes, and 2+ Quarters. If you're all-in on snake being a major player, I think he fits into the Viciano OG Maverick shell better than a lot of cards. The shell would then look like: Noble/DRS, Mom, Thalia, 2-3 Wayfarer, KotR, 2 Snake, Scryb, safekeeper backed by fetches, wastes, canopy, cradle. Possibly add a GQ to that mix. Lines of play get silly when you waste/fetch/scryb, activate wayfarer for in response, and reuse stuff from the grave with snake.Quote:
Originally Posted by calcymon
I think the deck can be extremely impressive if you build the mana base to be 6+ wasteland effects and 8+ disposable lands. 14 of 22/23 lands "benefiting" from going into the grave make snake better. I don't think they warp the mana base at all given how Maverick usually assembles itself. If you don't like GQ idea, run a more aggressive DD/Stage option instead. The key is keeping stuff GW though (which I have mixed feelings about but hey).
I think the answer will certainly be yes. Letting your first Wasteland threaten them being on no lands, rebuying Horizon Canopy when the need arises, rebuying Dark Depths combo, providing resiliency against opposing Wastelands... not to mention the good old fashioned value of just playing Fetchlands/Mox Diamond'd lands from your yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMagpie
Maverick is a deck that can play cards that are of highly varying utility, especially when those cards are green creatures. Yes, sometimes Excavator will be a 2/10, but that's ok because sometimes it will be a 10/10 and we'll just tutor it up. Very much like Teeg in that way. Sometimes Teeg is a Grizzly Bear that turns off your own Green Suns, but sometimes he wins the game so we're happy to play it.
There's obvious anti-synergy between this and Deathrite, but that's ok. Deathrite is so insane that he's worth playing even when he steps on the toes of your other cards (Goyf, Knight, Lavamancer, etc.).
Edit: Even if you remain unconvinced, many Maverick players are going to start trying it this weekend. You can get one of these guaranteed when you draft this weekend, and it's going straight into the deck. I'm sure results will start pouring in, I'll post after I play it in a couple events.
Hey guys, I am fairly new to playing this deck since I am usually on 4C Loam and I decided to buy the few cards I needed to give this a spin.
Can anyone tell me if Renegade Rallier is a staple of the deck? I am currently running 2 and he seems great but I don't have enough time to put the reps in and understand if he is a must include or if there are better options!
Rallier is good, not a must have. He's great recovery to get back Teeg or Thalia after they get Massacred, but he looks awful when you're staring down an opposing Deathrite Shaman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilhas
He sits in the "sometimes" pile alongside Tracker, Courser, and the second Qasali.
I always play the first Teeg, Qasali, and Scryb Ranger before any Ralliers.
I think the card is the most busted thing we've gotten since Sanctum Prelate. I just have reservations on how *powerful* it is. Very few cards will I compare to Deathrite Shaman.Quote:
Originally Posted by T-101
I'll probably try him in Bant instead, but I think he might well make Exploration a much better card. Being able to do something like "Explore, Noble, go; Waste (for daze protection), Excavator, pop Waste, play/pop waste" is pretty absurd. That's GG on T2 of the same levels Lands can pull. I could also see Mox Diamond builds mixing him in; as you have a body so that if your Loam is just CA, instead it's CA that also punches people.
I go back and forth on his Power Level but I'm suspecting Vegeta is in the right on this one.
Even just doing the above play with fetchlands is 5 mana on T2. Going,
T1 Explore, Noble, go
T2 Fetch, Excavator, Fetch, SFM->BSK.
What is your opp going to do? Kill SFM as you untap with 6 mana? You also just gained 2 CA that turn and flooded the field with garbage.
EDIT: I get that you could do the above with Loam or Crucible, but being a win con is a big difference. One is useless against RIP/DRS a lot of the time, the other just says "lol I still beat 80% of legacy in combat and carry a sword." I think I'm actually gonna pick up copies 3 and 4.
Problem with Exploration is that it would be mostly useless outside of having the Excavator on board. Might be better with the Two Green deck in Development (which hinges on Asuza), but I've had plenty of openings in other decks that blow a load with Exploration and Moxes then do jack shit for a few turns.
Fair enough, though it also works quite well with Courser, and if you're running 4 GSZ, Ex, and Courser; you have quite a lot of chances to set up explosive T2 or T3's. Exploration speeding up the deck instead of (your choice of mana dork) as it was meant to be played is still doable. I'm not suggesting run Mox + Exploration + Noble + GSZ + DRS; I'm suggesting like Noble or DRS + Exploration + GSZ
The upside of snake > crucible is how you can zenith the dude out. You can't find crucible or Loam in the library like you can casting zenith on x=4. But at the same time being a thing with legs makes it more vulnerable than crucible. I really like the card conceptually. It's on par with Prelate and someone is going to do something stupid with it soon. I see it being a strong flex play in Maverick.
For $20 you can get a set of a card that is a creature version of a currently $70. I think its a good investment either way
I think if going this route a 1x Crop makes sense. Adds +1 to your wasteland count and your GQ count. I think the GQ route is *much* more powerful with the Exploration though. Even a deck with 4-5 basics will be reduced to zero in two turns; especially if they already fetched some out seeing the waste-lock plan.
I really don't like to ovextend our plan too much on Excavator. As a 1 or MAYBE 2 of he is fine but any other cards open us up to gy hate too much and I don't think this is where we want to be.
Imo his strength is that he fits into kinda regular lists without changing too much.
One really cool interaction that I found today and wanted to share with you (even though the most experienced players probably know it already)
If you upkeep draw with canopy with a sylvan library in play, you can also put back on top the card drawn with canopy. It's like digging for 4 instead of 3 :)
One question, about top ends/mana sinks in traditional maverick, which do you guys think are the best ones? I want to fill 1-2 maindeck slots with those kind of cards and I'm not sure which one helps our bad matchups better.
Titania - In my experience, amazing vs all kinds of control. Usually wins the game the next turn. Additional tricks with karakas.
Tracker - Good on paper, but it has performed worse than I expected vs control and similar decks. I found it less resilient to removal overall
Leovold - I see some lists playing 1 leovold and zero blue sources, just as a GSZ target. It's nice, good vs punishing fire decks like lands. Is that MU favorable? Haven't played it yet
Rallier - Some lists also play 1 rallier, which looks awkward without vials or anything. If someone plays him, please explain why it's useful, it's not clear to me.
Courser - Older lists played one or two copies, I don't see it much nowadays. It's probably too low impact.
Last question, about disenchant effects. How many qasali/reclamation sage is the optimal one? Now that miracles doesn't play counterbalance multiple qasali are not as necessary, but I think that 2 copies are okay (one maindeck, one sideboard). Anyway, seems like most lists play 1 qasali maindeck and 1 rec sage sideboard, why is this? show and tell decks have moved away from omniscience and now play more sneak attack, where reclamation sage isn't nearly as useful.
You can also use the same trick with multiple sylvan libraries if you pay life for the first one to dig deeper. Doesn't come up much as you tend to avoid drawing a 2nd library when you already have the first, but if you need it, it's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
If you really crave a mana sick, maybe look towards more Scooze. He can just take over and dominate games, and after an opponent uses resources removing the first one they really get beat down when you green Sun for a second one. Good in mirror, untap with it and it turns off opposing deathirites, gives you more play and a complete lockout against the Reanimator and dredge games, and it's great against Goyfs as well as being a nice way to gain life against the delver and burn decks
Courser is still great with Sylvan Library. I run Courser if I run Library in the main, but either Tracker or THC if it is in the side. This decision, at least for me, always revolves around where the Library is in my list as Courser is unexciting outside of its synergy with Library. THC is generally a meta call if I expect to play at least one match against Elves because fuck all that, but I do love her and wish she felt essential in more match ups. I will probably play Tracker with one or two Excavators, the DD combo, and Volrath's Stronghold at my next local. This is probably dog shit, but IDGAF YOLO.Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
Running two Qasalis is fine and it doesn't matter overmuch how you split them between the main and side. The exalted trigger is not insignificant and it's not like Counterbalance is the only target in the format. A lot of people I respect run two or, as you suggest, one Qasali and one Rec Sage. That said, I only run one and have never felt bad about it, though the second is a perennial consideration. Running less than one is probably bad.
While not everything breaks down this way, answers to questions RE: the optimal card to play are heavily dependent on your meta, the other cards in your deck, and your preferences. It sounds like you really like Titania and that she's performed well for you. That should count for a lot.
Remember: The world is your oyster. You have about a thousand moves and each one of them is as good as gold.
A) I haven't used her but she seems a house. Try it out?Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD
B) He's good because he's CA and it's *now*. Like Snapcaster or similar, he gains you a card even if your opponent has removal right now. He's also tempo gain, land ramp, and potentially a double-wasteland. He's quite reasonable, though not quite a bomb.
C) He seems fine as a 1-of. He blocks all the non-beaters of legacy, and one or two beaters. He's mostly there as card filtering. I think if anyone takes my Exploration idea for a run, a 1-of of him here makes a lot of sense as you can burn through your bad topdecks very quickly. That said, I think Bob is generally better, since bob also wants to draw you lands (because of the low CMC) and Bob always gets your cards while he's alive, while courser does not.
D) I honestly think having 3 QPM, even in the main, is acceptable. Stacking Exalted triggers with Noble can get 5/5's as early as T3 (Noble, Noble + QPM)* and that's really where legacy tops out. It looks inconspicuous but every 3 triggers is a giant growth or a bolt to the face; which is substantial. The rec sage that people run is because it's CA, so it's more of a "blowout" card than a versatile one. Having all your eggs in QPM means revoker can screw you, or having all your eggs in Rec Sage means you have to wait to be reactive rather than proactive. IMO, run two, and a sage in the side (if you don't have decays.) He's mostly there to eat equipments so that you win the grind against SFM decks.
*EDIT: This isn't christmas land, this is just a regular "whoops I drew two nobles this game" hand. Punching for 4-5 off your two drop is as good as goyf and it's not grave reliant, which is a nice backup.
Also, recall that Scrb Ranger + Knight of the Reliquary is a very quick "mana sink" especially if you have some tricks in the land spread. Batterskull is also a powerful mana sink for lists that run 4x SFM, and just zenithing for more DRS is often a good "mana sink" as well.
I have a couple of Sanctum Prelates and am looking for an opportunity to jam them. So far, however, I like Ethersworn Canonist better in every match up where I feel like I might use the Prelates. Am I looking at this the wrong way?