[Deck] Zoo

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Originally Posted by zulander

Never take Goyf out against Dredge, paying 1G for a 6/7 is good (enchantments/artifacts in the yard). Also, you need a fourth Goyf in the list (if you don't own a 4th I understand tho).

Against CB I wouldn't board in Grudge, why are you boarding it in? Otherwise I'd suggest taking out Chain Lightning and then Helix. Reason being if you resolve a 1cc card I'd rather it be a creature instead of sorcery especially since you still have 11 removal spells after -4 chain, -1 L. Helix.

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My three rounds against dredge never resulted in me having more than 2 lands in play (we never got that far). The two rounds I won was because I left mana untapped so I could bolt my creature in response to triggers. Thats why I boarded him out. What would you take out instead? If I want say .. 4 dredgehatecards.

Ancient Grudge against the CB-deck is cause his wincons is Batterskull, equipments, vedalken shackles etc. But Chain Lightning seems worse being slow and all.

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Originally Posted by trivial_matters

Which version of Zoo is best against Maverick?

I'd like as many people as possible to weigh in with their opinion.

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The key against Maverick is to have enough removal for their small utility creatures (mostly Mother of Runes) as well as the Swords to Plowshares for their Knights and possibly Scavenging Ooze. If you can manage that, you simply trump them with superior card quality. Stoneforge Mystic doesn't do a whole lot if you burn their creatures in response to equipment, our Qasali Pridemages are much better than theirs by virtue of having more targets, and our Noble Hierarchs and other small creatures are better than theirs because our removal is stronger.

When I lose to Maverick, it's usually because I don't have enough removal (I play Big Zoo, with 12 maindeck removal spells--Bolts, Swords, and Punishing Fire). I'd love to be able to play like 15-16 removal spells in Games 2 and 3 that aren't embarrassing against the rest of the field. Strongly considering Lavamancer in the sideboard, along with possibilities like Sulfur Elemental, Jitte, etc. (Path to Exile is a given). I'm also consider embarrassing options like Arc Trail, Sudden Shock, etc. that suck against most of the field, even though Maverick really isn't present in my meta. I never thought I'd be lacking for removal options in Zoo...

Volcanic Fallout is an option. It hits a lot of Decks and it can`t be countered. A well timed Fallout will have a deep impact for Maverick.

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Originally Posted by Kyubi9

Volcanic Fallout is an option. It hits a lot of Decks and it can`t be countered. A well timed Fallout will have a deep impact for Maverick.

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I actually jammed a few copies of Volcanic Fallout into my sideboard last second, so we're in agreement there. However, I opted not to play Zoo at my last Monday night Legacy event since the people who showed up were likely on decks to be unfavorable matchups.

Volcanic Fallout would really hit RUG hard, as it takes all creatures but Goyf, which we can easily kill with our own + bolt.

What do people think about the most recent list Pat Cox posted in his article?
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...en_Dallas.html


Artifacts
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Creatures
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
3 Loam Lion
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Spells
1 Sylvan Library
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning

Lands
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

\\Sideboard
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Pyroblast
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Path to Exile
4 Graveyard hate cards


He means this build is better than 1-drop-zoo, as goblin guides feed Snapcaster Mage.
I also agree that one can as well go with Maverick if you want to try big zoo.

As graveyard hate I have tried s 2-2 split of Faerie Macabre and Grafdigger's cage. I'm not sold on cage as it does not stop dredge from making zombies. I think i'll go back to a 2-2 split of faerie and tormods as it does not interrupt my curve.

Fallout deals two damage, so it whiffs on Goyf and Mongoose, or 2/3rds of RUG's men. If you're pairing this up with yardhate, that's more reasonable.

I still think equipment is too slow without acceleration. Hell, even Maverick's dropping SFM, and they've got 7+ Llanowar Elves for acceleration!

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

Fallout deals two damage, so it whiffs on Goyf and Mongoose, or 2/3rds of RUG's men. If you're pairing this up with yardhate, that's more reasonable.

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If fallout only hits 1/3 of creatures, I would rather choose pyroclasm. I only see the uncounterable as relevant vs RUG as we don't hit 3 mana consistently on turn 3 and they have Daze.

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Originally Posted by kirbysdl

I still think equipment is too slow without acceleration. Hell, even Maverick's dropping SFM, and they've got 7+ Llanowar Elves for acceleration!

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I think the SFM + equip package serves another purpose in zoo. We want to deal fast damage in round 2+3. Then we go for the SFM package if things start stalling. We are not looking to cast SFM on turn 2+3, like Maverick sometimes does.

So whats the best strategy against maverick? Do we burn their small creatures and save path for their bigger creatures or save the burn for their face and just hope we can plow through them with our creatures?

So I'm wondering what's giving this archetype huge issues right now? Is it the Batterskulls in the Stoneforge decks? The Large threats in mid-range? Stifle/Waste package from Canadian Thresh (I'd say tempo decks but it's the only true tempo deck right now)? Is it because you have to fight them all? How can we, the other deck designers, help?

A lot of people count on you all to help keep the format balanced and fun.

Stoneblade, yeah. StP+Snapcaster, sweepers that are great against everything that costs 1 or 2, equipment lifegain. Add to that the reduced effectiveness of Zoo going to topdeck mode, vs Stoneblade with Jace card draw and Brainstorm filtering.

If you go big with KotR and Zenith for toolbox tricks, you might as well play Punishing Maverick. The reduction in speed seems like a reasonable tradeoff for the extra beef and answers to opposing strategies (Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Teeg, Ooze).

Maybe the Punishing Fire option isn't the worst idea. Yeah you're adding something that's effectively risking slowing you down and not helping Nactal but, you gain the ability to have a late game recurring win-con. it's also very pretty good against Maverick.

We were testing Zoo against RUG and Stoneblade all night long and just beating them up. It was pretty sad.

-Matt

Matt what're you using for a list? I'll give it a shot for a while so I can better understand how it works.

One thing is for sure, IMO: The ultra fast 1 drop zoo is not viable at this moment. While Gobil Guide still does some damage it still helps UW Stoneblade reach mana to cast Snapcaster + StP. I like the most recent list Pat Cox posted in his last article (see my post 0n page 207).

It's still fast but instead of Goblin Guide and fourth Loam Lion it has Stoneforge with Jitte and Sword of X and Y for some late game reach.

If you want to play Big Zoo with Knight of the Reliquary cut Loam Lions + Jitte for 4 KotR.

Why did Zoo stop being a Tier 1 deck? I thought Burn > Stoneforge mystic? Was it Snapcaster Mage? I don't keep up with Zoo so please forgive my ignorance.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

Why did Zoo stop being a Tier 1 deck? I thought Burn > Stoneforge mystic? Was it Snapcaster Mage? I don't keep up with Zoo so please forgive my ignorance.

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It's being discussed on this very page literally. You can also read the article in my post.

Aloha folks! I've been brewing up a new list of Zoo since the printing of Vexing Devil and a singleton Thunderous Wrath, and I was starting off with this list:

4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Devil
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Ranger of Eos

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
1 Thunderous Wrath

2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library

4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain

The deck plays pretty quick and the mana base was kinda stolen from Pat Cox lol. I think Vexing Devil is much better than Gobin Guide, and I don't like that Stoneforge Mystic card. I think Jitte is the best equipment right now and fits well with this deck.

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Originally Posted by zulander

Vexing Devil is much better than Gobin Guide, and I don't like that Stoneforge Mystic card. I think Jitte is the best equipment right now and fits well with this deck.

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Have you playtested the Devil yet? I've heard from others playtesting that Vexing never does anything but the one you don't want it to.

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Originally Posted by Artlee

Have you playtested the Devil yet? I've heard from others playtesting that Vexing never does anything but the one you don't want it to.

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I think vexing devil is not for this deck, we need real beater

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Originally Posted by Artlee

I've heard from others playtesting that Vexing never does anything but the one you don't want it to.

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Shouldn't that be immediately obvious upon reading the card? It's not like your opponent is going to flip a coin to decide which option to take.