[Primer] Nic Fit

Atraxa Unifier is amazing with Natural Order. It draws atleast 4 cards so as long as you make sure the NO resolves with either Thoughtseize/Therapy or FoW, you will win the game due to the immense card advantage alone.

I want to retry Natural Order in Nic Fit…

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Suns Zenith
3 Natural Order
1 Ponder
1 Noble Hierach
2 Veteran Explorer
3 Ice Fang Coatl
1 Grist
1 Malanthrope
1 Endurance
1 Uro, Titan
1 Undermountain Adventurer
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Questing Beast
1 Atraxa, Grand Unifier
1 Progenitus
1 Old One Eye
21 Lands

SB: 1 Toxicrene

Unlike every other Nic Fit list, this actually has game against combo due to its 6 discard effects and 4 FoW. Atraxa even pitches to FoW. Vet Explorer is awesome at ramping you so hardcasting Atraxa using Noble Hieratch for the white mana or using Zenith to cast it is perfectly doable.

I added cheap creatures that have a powerful etb effects and thus dont mind being sacced to Natural Order. (So Knight of Autumn, Eternal Witness and Reclamation Sage are preferred to Outland Liberator). I also wanted 2-3 NO targets since they pitch to FoW/Endurance and you really want a good target for the NO to still be in your library once it resolves. Atraxa and Progenitus are probably the two best options but Old One Eye is the perfect back up option since its so easy to hardcast and is a recursive two turn clock.

Potential NO targets include…
Old One Eye
Atraxa, Grand Unifier
Progenitus
Titan of Industry
Archon of Valor’s Reach
Ruric Thar
Tyrranax Rex
Torsten, Founder of Benalia
Torsten also draws you 4 cards, a budget Atraxa of sorts since 39/60 cards are creatures or lands. However Archon of Valor’s Reach and Ruric Thar are excellent versus combo decks and Titan of Industry has tons of utility in virtually any scenario.

Tested a bit and Old One Eye is insane. 11 power trample damage is a lot. If I keep Progenitus in, then I should play 4 NOs since the current build has 3 excellent targets for NO.

Also the fact that you can hardcast Atraxa using Toxicrene and Undermountain Adventurer is very relevant.

Should I still play a Progenitus since its an out vs Karakas. Toxicrene shuts off Karakas too.

Or I should drop the 4th Natural Order and replace Progentius with Toxicrene or another blue card (Misdirection or Misstep or Ponder),

Lastly, its a damn shame that Arcane Proxy cant be pitched to Force. Because the card could be great in the deck, but I need to prioritize keeping the blue count up for FoW

And digging this up for the sweet necro. Is anyone still on here, or has mostly everyone just moved to discord?

-Matt

People are still here lurking. A forum like this is far better than discord, especially for legacy as the info is often relevant for years.

Some of these new cards are also good in a NoShow shell. A lot like the deck listed, but with the usual blue stuff and Show and Tell.

Discord is good for moment to moment conversations, but it is really not good for retaining semi-permanent information. The search function works well enough, but things just quickly get mentioned and passed by.

We are still here. Well, some of us. But there no plan to abandon this place, I'm committed to keeping it going in whatever form I realistically can.

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Originally Posted by H

Discord is good for moment to moment conversations, but it is really not good for retaining semi-permanent information. The search function works well enough, but things just quickly get mentioned and passed by.

We are still here. Well, some of us. But there no plan to abandon this place, I'm committed to keeping it going in whatever form I realistically can.

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pin posts and threads

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Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit

pin posts and threads

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Yeah, it works alright, but still it just isn't what I'd consider ideal for that sort of task.

I'm not anti-Discord, I even run a server for a non-Magic related topic. It's amazing for conversations, but for reference, it's not what I would consider well suited. It can be made to work, of course, but only just so, as far as I am concerned.

Sounds great, I'll make up a list and try to run it at a local event and see what happens :)

-Matt

Has anyone tried Bowmasters in Nic Fit? The free 1/1 Army must play well with Cabal Therapy, Phyrexian Tower, Recurring Nightmare, Fiend Artisan, or other sac outlets.

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Originally Posted by FTW

Has anyone tried Bowmasters in Nic Fit? The free 1/1 Army must play well with Cabal Therapy, Phyrexian Tower, Recurring Nightmare, Fiend Artisan, or other sac outlets.

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Interesting idea!

Might be worth circling back to see what cards we're trying to fight in the current meta (or what difficulties are in the current meta) and then adapting our builds to that...

Example: Does white really have enough to offer in the current meta, or is Jund probably better? Can Siege Rhino rise again? We'll just have to see... :)

Bowmasters was printed for Nic Fit.

Its both a sac outlet for Vet Explorer and provides a creature for Therapy.

Nic Fit should replace the GSZ package with the scam package…

4 Grief
4 Troll
4 Reanimate (Blind Therapy naming Atraxa/Griselbrand against the Show and Tell opponent and reanimating it is my dream)
4 Bowmasters
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Veteran Explorer
2 Grist

I am inclined to turn Nic Fit into a black predominant deck with a light green splash for Veteran Explorer, Grist, Undermountain Adventurer and Sideboard tech like Carpet. Just fill out the list with…

X Undermountain Adventurer
X Dark Ritual
X Dauthi Voidwalker
X Opposition Agent
X Shelodred

Seems quite strong.

Troll is much more hardcastable in this deck, so you dont always have to land cycle it and hope to reanimate it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captain Hammer

Nic Fit should replace the GSZ package with the scam package…

4 Grief
4 Troll
4 Reanimate (Blind Therapy naming Atraxa/Griselbrand against the Show and Tell opponent and reanimating it is my dream)
4 Bowmasters
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Veteran Explorer
2 Grist

I am inclined to turn Nic Fit into a black predominant deck with a light green splash for Veteran Explorer, Grist, Undermountain Adventurer and Sideboard tech like Carpet. Just fill out the list with…

X Undermountain Adventurer
X Dark Ritual
X Dauthi Voidwalker
X Opposition Agent
X Shelodred

Seems quite strong.

Troll is much more hardcastable in this deck, so you dont always have to land cycle it and hope to reanimate it.

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Which Troll are you referring to? That's how long I've been out of it...

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Originally Posted by sdematt

Which Troll are you referring to? That's how long I've been out of it...

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troll of khazad-dûm
The Swampcycling one. It's part of a cycle from LOTR that let you cheat on lands.

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

The recent eternal durdles podcast had me thinking about how to build a good nic fit deck from first principles. The question we should be asking ourselves is not whether nic fit is a viable home for a pet card, but what threats best take advantage of the nic fit engine rather than the more traditional engines (led/dark ritual, monolith plus key, tomb plus ssg).

As pointed out by the podcast, the differences of nic fit are:

1. Actually puts out lands of different names.
2. Aristocrats subtheme
3. Makes 2 mana of any combination of colours.

Sea-gate stormcaller synergizes with all aspects (copying a spell doesn’t make you repay costs, built in mana sink)
Uro synergizes with all 3 aspects too so imo bug fit makes the most sense as a starting point.
Field of the dead loves point 1 so I think that is an auto include.

The eureka moment for me was when Eternal Durdles pointed out that Seagate plus Neoform gets spike feeder plus heliod for infinite life. Spike feeder even enters with an extra counter to go off through plague engineer or 1 piece of removal! Neoform benefits heavily from 2 (sac outlet, wants sac fodder) and 3 (colour intensive, can be cast off mana gotten from vet explorer)

I have done a bit of testing in the practice room and the dedicated NeoFit shell below seems like it has a lot of promise. It also fulfills my goals of playing good cards (brainstorm/uro/fow) without just being “bad bug zenith�


2 Field of the Dead
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Trop
1 WGB Triome
3 Vista
4 Misty Rainforest

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Once upon a time
4 Brainstorm
4 Seagate Stormcaller
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Strix
4 Neoform
1 Heliod
1 Spikefeeder
3 Uro, Titan of nature’s wrath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Skyclave Apparition
1 Meren of clan Nel north
4 Force of will


Sideboard is untuned and the deck would like some assassins trophies or sylvan libraries if I can find the room.

In addition to the normal nic fit lines and the combo mentioned above, t1 veteran t2 neoform gets you 5 lands with different names in play and uro in your graveyard on t2 (get Forest/island off of vet trigger, get a 3/2 snap with neoform, fb neoform with snapcaster get an uro, uro trigger.

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I have a few ideas for you, ported from cEDH.
I have built a number of decks that each use Sea Gate Stormcaller in a grip of ways.

Mind Swords
The conditon of a swamp is easy to meet with fetchlands. When you sac Veteran Explorer you'll get the lands before it resolves. In the right build I could see this card could be better than Hymn to Tourach for 0, since it confers a sac outlet and it exiles to deny dredge or combo recursion lines. The symmetry is the thing to circumvent. In some sense, it could also be approached as tho it were Fow in black.

Sea Gate Stormcaller + Mind Swords + Swamp
(Each player exiles 2 cards from hand)2
ie. Each player exiles 4 cards
However, it's worth noting that there are two copies of exile 2. This means Force of Will cannot answer this synergy by countering the Mind Swords, so they must counter SGS if they want to stop double Mind Swords. This suggests Aether Vial when it's not often played in Nic Fit..

Also, I have liked Unearth as it can return SGS, Snapcaster Mage, Eternal Witness, and 1U + B for 2 creatures + a 2/1 seems serviceable. I have also quite liked Mind Swords with Demilich in Inalla (cEDH).

I was thinking that something like Bloodghast would be ideal here.
In cEDH lists, I have found Gustha's Scepter to be a neat solution to the symmetry problem, while in this format LED as a 4'of confers many discard outlets for 0. This suggests that Mind Sword may find a home in a madness brew, but another hand disruption option not unlike Cabal Therapy, that can also cost 0 when it's a sac outlet had me feeling like I should mention it.


Snapcaster Mage + Mind Swords
functions similarly to SGS + MS
However, the difference is that the time frame in which you have to cast Mind Swords via flashback confers potential options. Similarly, we. An respond to the ETB before resolving SGS's delayed trigger to properly sequence, ie. SGS, ETB, CtW, resolve ETB, Diabolic Intent sac Veteran Explorer, etc. Worth noting, two copies of Diabolic Intent is much harder to answer then one copy. Here the virtual card advantage of the copy could be great against permission, when the deck already easily plays around Daze.

Rushed Rebirth is a lot like Neoform when it is an instant, and has a target range which includes the opponents creatures. I think of Skyshroud Cutter which can Neoform to Titania, Protector of Argoth[/cards]. I would think the new troll and Fury are played enough that some matches will have plenty of non-local targets for synergy.

One can also set up both parts of Dark Depths with Traverse the Ulvenwald, tho I'm not sure how well Nic Fit cam support this card without something like Stitcher's Supplier.

In Krark/Thrasios (cEDH), SGS + Neoform can find Dualcaster Mage to copy Neoform, which could lead a number of directions from there. Eldritch Evolution and Chord of Calling have similar lines with Krark in the [cz], and I've been able to port a number of lines from this deck to other non-Krark decks using SGS to good effect.

Anyway, hope some of these ideas help. I can post a few cEDH decklists with an edit if you want to look for portable SGS, Mind Swords, etc synergies.

EDIT:

Inalla[cz], BUR
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/nUd8vfERnUGJvxsYSVL9xg
Lots of SGS lines here. Inalla in the cz confers 2 SGSs for 1U + 1 + 0, for each player exiles 6, when FoW would trade the same number of cards. oof.. what a line. Here sequencing and delayed triggers are a lot more intricate as the spell chains get longer.

Krark/Thrasios[cz], RUG
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/0pALEefqjESYWLB14wwFVQ
there are tons of Neoform-esque lines in this one. I played SGS for a while. Notably it was great w Neoform, Snap, and Crop Rotation

Orcish Bowmasters is an auto 4 of in Nic Fit. It works with both halfs of the combo giving you bodies for Cabal Therapy and another way to kill Vet Explorer.

Broadside Bombadiers also seems very strong in the deck as an additional sac outlet and finisher. Thraben recently 5-0ed with this list…


2 Assassin's Trophy
3 Bayou
4 Broadside Bombardiers
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Fable of the Mirror-Breaker
2 Forest
2 Fury
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Grist, the Hunger Tide
1 Ignoble Hierarch
1 Mountain
4 Orcish Bowmasters
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Swamp
3 Taiga
2 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Wooded Foothills

SIDEBOARD:
3 Choke
1 Collector Ouphe
2 Dismember
4 Endurance
2 Fury
2 Meltdown
1 Scavenging Ooze

https://youtu.be/CSEkPS7p1Kg?si=RSQwb9xr7TNigWBz

Im still not sold of Greater Gargadon and Titania especially now that we have so many better sac outlets.
I feel like Minsc and Boo is a better finisher and possibly cards like Caves of Choas Adv, Opp Agent as well as some 1 of green GSZ targets like the green 3/4 initiative mana guy are all more powerful than Greater Gargadon and the 2nd Titania but maybe Im missing something.

Regardless, maindecking 1 Endurance is absolutely essential in any GSZ deck.

Apparently MH3 is printing a cycle of free sac outlets. I think this breaks nic fit.

https://i.redd.it/oywn8pjv0ekc1.jpeg

This plus vet explorer is 5 mana on t2.

Here's my Youtube Nic Fit playlist where I publish test games from MTGO. There are just a couple of games now, but I've had good interactive games against usually difficult matchups like TES, Scam-reanimator, Cloudpost (WB, very experimental) and BG Depths. Now, results from test games on MTGO should be taken with a grain of salt. This is mostly a way to get a feeling for different versions and interactions.

The list includes a video where I introduce the build I'm testing. During the last year I've sometimes changed my Vial list (see the MOST thread here) into a Nic Fit list because they share a lot of common aspects, well I go through that part in the video too, briefly but still. During about 10 years of playing Nic Fit I've had plenty of time to reflect on the archetype's weaknesses, and I'm experimenting with compensating for those weaknesses with this list. Well, so far it seems like it's working ok, worth more testing at least allthough I think I'll go back to experimenting with Vial builds again. Vial is such a powerful card. Edit: I recently updated a Cloudpost list, I was loving Cloudpost Nic Fit around when Deathrite was banned, and I've been revisiting the archetype many types but just now putting together something I'm curious to try. So I may playtest that list in the near future.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...zo1WF4MH1qsPH9

I like Reeplcheep's idea.

Is there a way to build in sufficient card advantage creatures and interaction to avoid the topdeck issues?

RampFit?

//Lands: 18
3 Prismatic Vista
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Volrath's Stronghold

//Spells: 15
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Assassin's Trophy
3 Once Upon A Time
2 Flare of Cultivation

//Creatures: 26
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Orcish Bowmasters
3 Fiend Artisan
1 Endurance
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Grist, the Hunger Tide
1 Questing Beast
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
3 Grief
3 Troll of Khazad-dum
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Archon of Valor's Reach

//Enchantments: 1
1 Recurring Nightmare

//Sideboard: 15
3 Force of Vigor
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Sheoldred's Edict
2 Endurance
2 Plague Engineer
1 Collector Ouphe
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dauthi Voidwalker
1 Opposition Agent


Edit: I tested a few games against RUG Delver. Tireless Tracker, Meren, and Titania could all run away with games.

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Originally Posted by Reeplcheep

Apparently MH3 is printing a cycle of free sac outlets. I think this breaks nic fit.

https://i.redd.it/oywn8pjv0ekc1.jpeg

This plus vet explorer is 5 mana on t2.

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Youre not kidding. That is an insane card for Nic Fit. Using AI to create and test MTG decks seems to be playing out well for WOTC (though I doubt its sustainable for very long). GSZ for Vet Explorer turn 2 becomes worthwhile with this card.

With so much mana, I think we need to adopt Beanstalk and either blue for FoW/Lorien Revealed or if not blue then atleast white for Solitude/Leyline Binding.