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Spell pierce is really good, vial is good. If they are playing red for firespout, Absolute Law is gg and if they just have removal then Kira owns.. You win with Fish. I don't see how threads is that great, but Submerge is great vs Goyf
You don't need suggestions to beat countertop/deeds
Threads, you know, to play on their resolved dreadnought.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
If you run threads, you know, you could liek bounce them with echoing truth and use them again!?! Or, you know, there's that one thingy.
Could someone explain why the idea is so terrible, you know, without being a jerk about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlopeeJ
I thought this place was about learning and information, not taunting.
so I'm a fish noob. I want to learn. jeez.
Ok. Well, I may be wrong, but just stopping a dreadnaught isn't that hard. Cursecatcher, daze, fow and spell pierce do a pretty good job if I remember right. Some people have used threads sideboard, but I'd rather run rushing river if anything. Its at least almost a 2 for 1. You can outrace a lot of things that run island because of lord. Do you have a list of yours to post? Do you run any spot removal? Its hard to blindly rate one card when others do the merfolk thing better already. The first step to learning is reading! I bet someone else has already asked your question.. :D This is a good place to learn, but hands on is the only real way. Any other questions, concerns, comments?Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
-Miz
No, I appreciate the response. I am looking for a good deck for my meta which happens to have a bunch of dreadnaughts so was just wondering how the match works, in case I decided to build fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizeri
Threads is a good card in some decks and yes, it hits Dreadnought. But there are several reasons you shouldn't run it. First, you're the beatdown against CBtop decks. You want to be dropping fish onto the table early on to set up a huge midgame islandwalking attack for the win. Screwing around with a 3-mana creature enchantment sets you back and is pretty easy to counter if you tap out for it when it would be relevant (i.e. if you wait, Dreadnought is still a 12/12 and will just kill you). It's just a really slow card with dwindling uses in this meta. Dreadstill isn't popular enough to warrant its inclusion, it's not good enough crossover hate for other matchups to count and you should win most games against Dreadstill by alpha striking them before they can stick a protected stiflenought. Otherwise, save your counters for the stifle and 2-for-1 them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
Second, there are easier ways to do it that don't involve wasting precious sideboard space. Your board space should be allocated to bad matchups that can become even or even matchups that can become good. Blue-based control like Dreadstill and CBtop-goyf don't merit sideboard space because the reason Merfolk exists in the first place is to naturally beat them. If you're consistently losing these matchups with your maindeck, you're probably making some huge mistakes for which the answer is to practice more and get better, not dedicate board space for them. If your meta is so inbred that all of the CBtop decks can afford 8-10 board slots for Merfolk, then it's fine to start boarding against that, but only because you have no other matchups to worry about (for example, your actual bad matchups: red-based aggro and mostly anything without blue).
I personally think firespout is scarier than naught. I went and probed deckcheck after my post to see what merfolk has actually been using. I saw an interesting sb with blue elemental blast and hydroblast. I think its for zoo, spouts and goblins. Only problem is that most decks cb top and spout. Makes the one cost spell dead. You could force a top to the top and then land daze tho. Making fish wouldn't be a bad idea. I've been looking at uw tempo a bit. Weathered wayfayer is a house.
I gave a great response and you know, you came back with saying threads shines. So your the one who asks for advice and then answers your own question with a bad card. So if you want to run threads awesome do it,I don't like the UU requirement. Refer to my previous post on how to beat counterbalance/deeds/Dreadstill what ever deck it is. Spell pierce, vial, force of will, lord of atlantis. Swords is a 2/1 or if they run trops submerge 2/1. You play Merfolk's game, disrupt them (wasteland/daze/cursecatcher) while you get ahead with vial/standstill. If my meta had lots of 12/12 I would run swords/submerge/echoing truthQuote:
Originally Posted by Star|Scream
Why not run Wipe Away?? It is the best for bouceing big fatties.
I ran Wipe Away for a good while. But here's the problem with Wipe Away. It is best against the decks we are already best against. It really is as simple as this: Non-Merfolk decks with Force of Will/counters are at a great disadvantage against Merfolk. Those are the same decks where Wipe Away shines.
Star|scream and others, just board in some Echoing Truths. That really should do the trick. You do not suffer the card disadvantage inherent in bounce in this case, and he can't even cast it again without another Stifle effect. And then he has to deal with your counters or get 2-1'd. Add that to the fact that he is pretty heavily disfavored here in the first place, and that is about all the sb slots you need. My deck in the OP is probably pretty well-equipped for this matchup, so you should consider it.
Hey guys,
is the saito list still the way to go? i guess the maindeck is good, having black is very very good. i switched the sideboard towards the mirror - normally a good player can outplay the other player in the mirror but against a good player its just about the better draw - what about putting 2-3 doom blade in the sb - they arent bad against gobbos, zoo, new horizons and they are very good int he mirror. In the merfolk mirror u do have 8 cards that arent good: standstill and LoA.
i thought about something like this (perhaps -1 nature's ruin + 1 doom blade)
// Lands
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [M11] Island (1)
1 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [MOR] Mutavault
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [R] Underground Sea
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [ROE] Coralhelm Commander
4 [SHM] Cursecatcher
4 [TSB] Lord of Atlantis
4 [LRW] Merrow Reejerey
4 [LRW] Silvergill Adept
// Spells
4 [DD2] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [DS] AEther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [PT] Nature's Ruin
SB: 2 [6E] Perish
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [M11] Doom Blade
need contructive critism :-)
perhaps u can cut relics because dredge isnt that popular and against new horizons u have doom blades now - against dredge u can add in a 4th plague (horror or illusion or even zombie if u draw multiples).
I think your list looks fine. The only thing I really don't like about Saito Merfolk is the fact that it is a deck that has to allocate some 12 slots for anti-aggro because it is a rough go. So what are you taking out? Honestly, what 8 - 12 cards are you subbing out for defense? And then there is no SB at all against most of the field. It speaks to the strength of the deck that it can get away with this, but it seems that you are really giving the combo guys and blue guys a shot where they don't have to get one.
Finn what else do you need vs combo?
4 force, 4 daze, 4 cursecatcher, 3 peirce Maindeck and a fast clock. There isn't much else vs combo, his maindeck is good vs the field while his sb helps vs the bad matchups. Spell pierce is good vs a lot of decks also
I would personally (depending on your meta) cut the standstills for more lords and/or maybe some Jitte's main. Jitte is good vs every deck with creatures, esp the mirror/goblins and makes everyone of your little creatures good. I don't think you need 5 perish plus 2 doomsblade, I think Perish is a little slow. I really like submerge and think it should at least be a 3 of, often times Perish is just a 3 mana socery speed kill one creature. I like to timewalk my opp's for free
3 submerge
2 perish
4 graveyard ( I run extirpate, good vs loam decks/Jace control/Thopter/madness/ Okay vs Dredge)
4 plague
2 blasts
If you move jitte's main that would open up 2 slotts. I also think you run to many fetches and not enough islands, you don't ever wanna draw underground sea until you want to caste your one black bomb so I would go down to 3
Anything for the SnT/Sneak Attack MU? I played against a version that lacked FoW's, so I don't know how tough it is normally. Any advice on this MU?
3 spell pierce maindeck andd one more sb?
Pithing Needle. It also happens to be a monster against Survival of the Fittest and Umezawa's Jitte.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
i never played pithing in merfolk sb.Sure is a house. Spell pierce and pithing are both versatile cards, but spell pierce can be played maindeck, pithing nope....and pithing can be destroyed bounced etc while spell pierce not...spell pierce can only be countered and merfolk happens to be really good at counter wars (thanks to spell pierce too)
Now that you mention it Taco, I just happened to have 3 Needles stuck in my sb for the past few weeks and I found myself boarding them in most of the time. I have never like it in the past because it is great against stuff like Vial and Jitte. But, ya know, I am using them, so I just kept extra bounce. But it certainly has merit.
I have played Needle for a pretty long time too, since like February, in my board, often 2x or 3x. I usually board them in against PWs and sweepers like EE and Deed, and of course Jitte (since I don't play any of those in my w splash) and the fact that it's a catch-all response to all those while costing just a single colorless mana is merit enough in my books.
I used to play them in MeatHooks way back when too, and boarded mostly against EE (EE at 2 sucks) but it had its other uses even before the printing of Jace2.