[Primer] R/G Lands

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Originally Posted by filln

Neat card, but the symmetrical aspect of this really kills it for me.

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Yeah - in my excitement I misread that. Garbage.

Idk, I think it could be very good. Combo decks that want to use their graveyard have a very hard time interacting with thing once its in play. The symmetrical aspect sucks yes, but is far more damaging to our opponent than us, and can't be interacted with via duress / thoughtseize / force of will etc. Also I'm sure I'm not the only one whose drawn the bojuka bog whilst leaving crop rotation up. It is not a substitute for bog imo but could be played alongside it as a gamble target

For those who were thinking of the white splash of Lands, yet another way to make a Marit Lage token:

https://images1.mtggoldfish.com/uplo...0%5BHOU%5D.png

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...usive-previews

Solemnity
2W
Enchantment
Rare

Players can't get counters.
Counters can't be put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, or lands.

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Could also be interesting with Glacial Chasm...

I still think bog is quite a bit better because the opportunity cost of holding this land up or rotating into it is so much higher. Add on the symmetrical effect and I'm just not much of a fan at the moment. Who knows though, maybe we get some crazy desert that makes this thing more appealing.

EDIT: Aw man, why does Solemnity not say planeswalkers, fuck you Jace!

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Originally Posted by filln

For those who were thinking of the white splash of Lands, yet another way to make a Marit Lage token:

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Won't work I'm afraid... Depths comes into play with the counters on it, so no enter-the-battlefield trigger where you actually put them on.

EDIT: Chasm however, that works nicely (checked the rules to be sure)!

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Originally Posted by Ingo

Won't work I'm afraid... Depths comes into play with the counters on it, so no enter-the-battlefield trigger where you actually put them on.

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121.6. Some spells and abilities refer to counters being put on an object. This refers to putting counters on that object while it’s on the battlefield and also to an object that’s given counters as it enters the battlefield

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I'm more interested in this for Enchantress though...

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Originally Posted by Ingo

Won't work I'm afraid... Depths comes into play with the counters on it, so no enter-the-battlefield trigger where you actually put them on.

EDIT: Chasm however, that works nicely (checked the rules to be sure)!

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Are you sure? The preview article mentions depths and walking ballista. The counter portion of dark depths is a replacement effect that's trying to do what Solemnity prevents so I don't get why it would still get counters.

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Originally Posted by supremePINEAPPLE

Are you sure? The preview article mentions depths and walking ballista. The counter portion of dark depths is a replacement effect that's trying to do what Solemnity prevents so I don't get why it would still get counters.

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Actually I'm not anymore, the guys on the Hour of Devastation thread seem to be sure that it does...

EDIT: comparing this with Blood Moon, I thought replacement effects affecting the way the land comes into play (tapped for shocklands, with Ice counters for Dark Depths, ...) always happened even with Blood Moon in play. In case of Dark Depths, it would enter play as a mountain, but with 10 ice counters on it. Solemnity does not seem different from Blood Moon in the way it's effect applies to Dark Depths?

I copied this from the rulings of Blood Moon.
3/14/2017 : If a nonbasic land has an ability that causes it to enter the battlefield tapped, that ability will still function. For example, if Blood Crypt is entering the battlefield, its controller may pay 2 life to have it enter untapped. Regardless of this choice, it will be only a Mountain and not a Swamp. The same is also true of any other abilities that modify how a land enters the battlefield or apply “as” a land enters the battlefield, such as the first ability of Cavern of Souls.

Play Solemnity first, play DD second? Or because it says 'comes into play with' it doesn't work like that?

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Play Solemnity first, play DD second? Or because it says 'comes into play with' it doesn't work like that?

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I think Solemnity needs to be played first to prevent Dark Depths getting its counter when it come into play. Solemnity dosent "erase" counter that where get before, but just prevent getting more counter.

I dont know if this card deserve any slot in the deck (we have so few flex slot !!). Of course, Chasm lock is way more easy, but honestly IMO it's not enough ;)

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Originally Posted by kravkenov

I think Solemnity needs to be played first to prevent Dark Depths getting its counter when it come into play. Solemnity dosent "erase" counter that where get before, but just prevent getting more counter.

I dont know if this card deserve any slot in the deck (we have so few flex slot !!). Of course, Chasm lock is way more easy, but honestly IMO it's not enough ;)

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So like I said Solemnity first, DD second. I do agree it is tempting, but probably not worth the slot.

Until we have an Academy Ruins for Enchantments, I look at these things with sadness, not hope.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

Until we have an Academy Ruins for Enchantments, I look at these things with sadness, not hope.

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Yep, the only tool vaguely useful here would be Noxious Revival. I love the idea of Glacial + Solemnity even more than using the enchantment as a kind of replacement for Manabond, but this seems to situational even for me. Still, we used to play Choke or Sylvan Library in sideboards and we still do use things like Drop of Honey - none has proper interaction with dredge, gamble etc. Time will tell if the outcome of super boosted Dark Depths and overkill against Infect would be enough to try this in the sideboard or even main deck.

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Play Solemnity first, play DD second? Or because it says 'comes into play with' it doesn't work like that?

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Well, I don't entirely understand why, but it seems that Solemnity does prevent counters being put on Depths as it comes into play, where Bloodmoon does not.

To wind back to an earlier topic, the RUG builds, I noticed last night that often it doesn't make a difference. Playing 2 EE I so rarely draw them and often I am not trying to loop them. The option is nice, but I am not noticing a large difference between when I play with and without Blue.

That said, I had a Sphere countered last night against BUG tempo and I just put it back on top. Opponent was less than happy about that. Later extracted my Loams, I got back Cradle. Killed him with a looped Ring, just like old times.

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Originally Posted by Ingo

Well, I don't entirely understand why, but it seems that Solemnity does prevent counters being put on Depths as it comes into play, where Bloodmoon does not.

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The Dark Depths counters get put on before the replacement effect of blood moon comes into effect. Where as Solemnity will always prevent the counters from being put on Dark Depths.

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Originally Posted by Domri Rade

The Dark Depths counters get put on before the replacement effect of blood moon comes into effect. Where as Solemnity will always prevent the counters from being put on Dark Depths.

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I tried explaining it several times, but since people don't like the answer they just ignore it.

First, neither Blood Moon nor Solemnity is a replacement effect.

Second, the type changing effect of Blood Moon applies after the "as ~ ETB" effect.

Third, the static ability of Solemnity applies to "as ~ ETB" effects, because they are on the battlefield at the time the counters are placed.

I get that people don't like how this seems in plain English, but in the game rules the interactions are quite clear and distinct.

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Originally Posted by H

I tried explaining it several times, but since people don't like the answer they just ignore it.

First, neither Blood Moon nor Solemnity is a replacement effect.

Second, the type changing effect of Blood Moon applies after the "as ~ ETB" effect.

Third, the static ability of Solemnity applies to "as ~ ETB" effects, because they are on the battlefield at the time the counters are placed.

I get that people don't like how this seems in plain English, but in the game rules the interactions are quite clear and distinct.

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Probably missed your post, sorry. Anyway, thanks for the clarification, both to you and Domri Rade :smile:

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Originally Posted by Chatto

Probably missed your post, sorry. Anyway, thanks for the clarification, both to you and Domri Rade :smile:

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Well, it wasn't in this thread, but it's important to understand what things are in order to understand how they will work. :cool:

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Originally Posted by H

I tried explaining it several times, but since people don't like the answer they just ignore it.

First, neither Blood Moon nor Solemnity is a replacement effect.

Second, the type changing effect of Blood Moon applies after the "as ~ ETB" effect.

Third, the static ability of Solemnity applies to "as ~ ETB" effects, because they are on the battlefield at the time the counters are placed.

I get that people don't like how this seems in plain English, but in the game rules the interactions are quite clear and distinct.

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My bad, don't know why I called it a replacement effect.