[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

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Originally Posted by Freggle

Question 1: Do you need duals?
No. As a matter of fact many lists I run play 0 copies of any type of dual (shock or not)

Debated Statement: Is Enchantress viable?

Yes, but it’s not easy, and will require a lot of work to get good enough with the deck that it has to be a labor of love or the deck will not work for you. There are many things currently working against the deck. Here are the main ones:

BGx getting the following cards:

Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm

Prior to these cards BGx matches were heavily favored because they could not interact with out “locks” now they have main deck hate.
Sigarda & Oring effects for Strix seems like a good plan b, but is relatively untested.

Storm:
Storm was always an issue, but is mitigated well with. Gaddock Teeg (Green Sun’s for Gaddock), Stony Silence, and to a lesser extent Leyline of Sanctity There may be additional insurance in Runed Halo
Sterling Grove IMO is just not good here.

Omnitel:
Beatable with Banishing Light, Oblivion Ring, Seal of Primordium or helm combo.

Gaddock also does a lot of work here.

Elves:
Elves when from poor to horrible with the printing of Reclamation Sage.
Gaddock is a decent way to Fight elves, but you need to close them quick. Some sweet tech for Elves may be Torpor Orb
All the rest of the match-ups in the decks to beat for the GW Helm list (no duals) Are / were 50/50 or favorable.

In summary Enchantress is not a deck that you pick-up and do well with it right off the bat (especially in this meta.) In order to play Enchantress you have to:
1.Want to REALLY play Enchantress
2.Understand the Meta and what makes your opponents decks work
3.Practice
4.Tweak your list to the ever changing meta

In other words it has got to be a labor of love. If you are not up for that type of investment, I would suggest a different deck as there isn’t a lot of development going into Enchantress although it can be quite powerful in skillful Enchantress player’s hands.

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Since it is my second legacy deck, I will invest in it to make it viable. I don't have to worry about it being viable, I need to worry about getting the pieces.

If this bullets is true, the list that won the daily with living wish is where we want to try and go then. It seems like a new direction I want to try.

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Originally Posted by mikeshimoji

Since it is my second legacy deck, I will invest in it to make it viable. I don't have to worry about it being viable, I need to worry about getting the pieces.

If this bullets is true, the list that won the daily with living wish is where we want to try and go then. It seems like a new direction I want to try.

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Which list was that? Online meta is a bit different than paper but it's worth looking at whatever works.

So Myth Realized is proving to be super awkward and I'm not sure I'm happy with it. It kinda protects you engine (except not really because they don't care about it until they're already dead) and I really miss casting Suppression Field. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way but yeah, I'm not a fan of it in this version of the deck. On the plus side, I fell in love with Gitaxian Probe again.

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Originally Posted by Watersaw

Which list was that? Online meta is a bit different than paper but it's worth looking at whatever works.

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It was a rather strange list playing 4 Living Wish, 1 Green Sun's Zenith, 1 Rest in Peace and 1 Helm of Obedience. Though impressive that somebody actually won with enchantress, I don't think the list looks particularly good.

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9358&d=253632&f=LE

For those interested. Definitely an oddball list.

Oddball, isn't it exactly a twist this deck needs? I was talking to my friend who is an enchantress nut (remember that I am only a noob at this deck) and he said this deck needs a renovation, especially to combat delver tempo. For example, does elephant grass do the trick still, or do we need something of a bigger lock. I see some lists even running stp.

I dunno, I've been playing legacy for years, but I feel this deck is seriously a diamond in the rough. Just like how elves was pushed up to tier 1 recently with behemoth, shaman and new legend rule. I mean, we have the same land (cradle = sanctum) as them.

My friend and I are going to test some weird things (like choke main, why not? BG control lists are now running them, we can run them better) and let you guys know.

Delver tempo (RUG, UWr) is the least of our worries. The main problems imo are BUG (because of the combination of FoW, Abrupt Decay, Thought Seize, Liliana and DRS), elves (I dont think I have ever won a match against elves) and reanimator (i'm not running RiP). ANT and Show and Tell are also bad matchups but at least there is relevant hate agaist those.

Elephant Grass is one of the best cards in the deck, especially against delver decks.

I think the deck is very underpowered at the moment. Imo it would need at least one of the following (or something similar) to be viable:
Academy Ruins for enchantments (this would be super broken so probably not going to happen)
Thalia which taxes non-creature, non-enchantment spells
Ethersworn Canonist which stops multiple non-enchantment spells
Functional reprint of Enchantress Presence (would let us cut argothian and play cards like humility and drop of honey/porphyry nodes main)
Unbanning of Earthcraft (unsure if this would be enough)

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Originally Posted by The_Dingo

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9358&d=253632&f=LE

For those interested. Definitely an oddball list.

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Dat wishboard tho. Deck looks super powerful but somehow even slower than a 4 GSZ build. What I really want to know is how Heliod, God of the Sun performed.

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Originally Posted by mikeshimoji

Oddball, isn't it exactly a twist this deck needs? I was talking to my friend who is an enchantress nut (remember that I am only a noob at this deck) and he said this deck needs a renovation, especially to combat delver tempo. For example, does elephant grass do the trick still, or do we need something of a bigger lock. I see some lists even running stp.

I dunno, I've been playing legacy for years, but I feel this deck is seriously a diamond in the rough. Just like how elves was pushed up to tier 1 recently with behemoth, shaman and new legend rule. I mean, we have the same land (cradle = sanctum) as them.

My friend and I are going to test some weird things (like choke main, why not? BG control lists are now running them, we can run them better) and let you guys know.

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The deck functions on a lot of moving parts and is very susceptible to disruption (which Living Wish solves very well) and getting killed before we can properly defend ourselves (which it really doesn't). The main tension in the deck is, are you a reliable turn 5/6 combo deck or a super grindy prison? I honestly don't think we've decided yet.

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Originally Posted by Concordant

Delver tempo (RUG, UWr) is the least of our worries. The main problems imo are BUG (because of the combination of FoW, Abrupt Decay, Thought Seize, Liliana and DRS), elves (I dont think I have ever won a match against elves) and reanimator (i'm not running RiP). ANT and Show and Tell are also bad matchups but at least there is relevant hate agaist those.

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Infect and Omni-tell are pretty miserable as well. 12post is a race.

So, the new approach would be the super Grundy right? I mean, the deck produces so much mana, it produces card advantage AND lock the board, we should be able to use anything as a finisher and it doesn't HAVE to be a combo deck, no? I'm super interested in the grindy approach as it seems like it can handle it. I mean, Sigarda is just the beats and this deck can churn it out fast. How about the big enchantment creatures? Sounds good to me.

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Originally Posted by mikeshimoji

Oddball, isn't it exactly a twist this deck needs? I was talking to my friend who is an enchantress nut (remember that I am only a noob at this deck) and he said this deck needs a renovation, especially to combat delver tempo. For example, does elephant grass do the trick still, or do we need something of a bigger lock. I see some lists even running stp.

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The tempo decks are not problematic with the exception of BUG delver.

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Originally Posted by mikeshimoji

My friend and I are going to test some weird things (like choke main, why not? BG control lists are now running them, we can run them better) and let you guys know.

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Would be interested in this for sure. I would love some tech that helps gain ground on the combo MUs without losing any ground to the stuff we are good against.

Has anyone tried a boarding plan where we board into something like 4 leyline of the void, Extra helms, E tutors and try and race the combo decks? If so I would love to hear any success stories.

Not sure if I should keep this one under wraps while I smooth out the list, but I just thought I'd share early this time. None the less it's a fun one. I thought up a new UG list and it seems quite powerful even under board wipes and removal (this list uses creatures)

I went 3-1 in tournament practice, the only match I lost was to time while combing for the win. (Modo clicks , there is a ton with this one)

The concept is simple win with Helix Pinnacle.

The main combo is to enchant a Arbor Elf with Pemmin's Aura. I know, I know it sounds like a horrible plan. In preliminary testing however it is not. We just need Arbor Elf not to be summoning sick and a combination of UG mana out of a forest and we have infinate mana to draw into Pinnacle and load it up to 100 counters, and survive a turn.

Here is the list I tested on MTGO tonight with very good success (warning don't play on modo with this unless you want to die of clicking):

Main:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

3 Pemmin's Aura
4 Arbor Elf
2 Exploration(not needed ...likely something better for this slot)

2 Helix Pinnacle
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Seal of Primordium
2 City of Solitude

9 Forest
4 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor



Sideboard (Never Boarded)

1 Reclamation Sage
3 In the Eye of Chaos
3 Energy Field
3 Elephant Grass
1 Sigarda

Infinate Mana Combos

Pemmin's + Dryad Arbor + Utopia Sprawl U on Arbor = Infinite Green

Pemmin's + Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl U on Forest = Infinate Green

Pemmin's + Arbor + Sprawl or Growth on Tropical = Infinate Green

Green Sun's = Swiss army Knife

Green suns can find Abor Elf, Dryad Arbor to combo with, also when comboing it can find Eidolon or more Enchantress's to all-but ensure you don't fizzle.


Once you have Infinate Green you typically can draw through your deck which means more land enchants to find Pinnacle and win. This deck kills roughly turn 5

Board wipes aren't bad since the decks curve is so low you can build up quick from a relatively low base. Land Destruction isn't bad and is mitigated from the Arbor Elfs and mana Enchants. I had one game where I ate an all is dust and bit a Sundering Titan (nabbing 2 lands) and still comboed FTW.

Also Note worthy: City of Solitude stops removal as well so you're free to enchant draw win. unabated.


...right now it's a simple rough list, but again quite powerful.

Could also Play Words of Wind ( and or possibly Stasis)as a hedge against Needle & random stuff, but it raises the curve and at this point I don't feel it's needed. Seal of Primordium Pops off a good bit of hate.

Hi guys... I nave a question... What do you think about bone copy of genesis wave in this deck?

Is anyone going to Syracuse this weekend I'm trying some new tricks :D (It's been a while since i've been on this thread) I'll post results.

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Originally Posted by grandemagopiccolo

Hi guys... I nave a question... What do you think about bone copy of genesis wave in this deck?

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Genesis Hydra is strictly better, but isn't good enough.

Why not just play the old words of wind build Freggle? Also 8 argothian's?

Freggle, 8 aragothian in your list

Freggle how is Pemmin's + Elf better than RiP/Helm. Elf is ok by itself but game 1 will soak all their removal. Rest in Peace is actually a really good card main deck. Doesn't kill any faster really. Not sure why you think that combo is better than RiP/Helm.

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Originally Posted by Watersaw

So Myth Realized is proving to be super awkward and I'm not sure I'm happy with it. It kinda protects you engine (except not really because they don't care about it until they're already dead) and I really miss casting Suppression Field. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way but yeah, I'm not a fan of it in this version of the deck. On the plus side, I fell in love with Gitaxian Probe again.

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UPDATE: I'm retracting that statement, Myth Realized is awesome. I finally sucked it up and put Sterling Grove back in the deck and it made all the difference. It hasn't actually won me any games yet, but swinging for 6 as early as turn 4 has been good enough to force blocks or removal that could be spent elsewhere. Side note: the 3-mana pump ability has been more relevant than I would have ever thought.

Considering the Living Wish build a few posts up, the more I look at it the more I like it. I'm not sure I'm enough of a baller to run 4 wishes, but I am a huge fan of 1-and-1 on Helm of Obedience and Rest in Peace, especially after testing it out. It doesn't take up much space, and if you ever do draw the Helm early you get to crack Grove and play "Do you have it?" There's about a million things going on here, but you should be able to stay at least one step ahead. This is the most fun I've had playing this deck in a long time.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms

1 Sigil of the Empty Throne That's right, 15 enchantress effects. I'm not sold 100% on Sigil, but it's huge with Grove
3 Myth Realized Okay, 18 if you count these.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Replenish there was one game where I couldn't cast this without killing myself with Constellation triggers. Something to be aware of if you double up on Eidolon and don't run Words of W_____

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

3 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Oblivion Ring this isn't Banishing Light so I can break Blood Moon and cast Emrakul. This has come up.

2 Plains
6 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Taiga
1 Savannah I feel that Sterling Grove and Myth Realized make early access to white that much more crucial
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas

Sideboard is, as always, a work in progress.
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben decent-ish clock now that Myth Realized exists alongside Eidolon of Blossoms. Need to test more
2 Stony Silence on the fence
2 Suppression Field on the fence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Replenish this is probably not needed
1 Rest in Peace
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke so this and Sage were in competition with Blood Moon for slot 60. I went with Moon because even though it can screw us up it packs the biggest punch

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Originally Posted by Jamaican Zombie Legend

I love the deck to death, and it's a blast to play, but from a competitive standpoint it's extremely poorly positioned in the metagame and I don't see Enchantress moving into a better spot anytime soon. Solitary Confinement-based Enchantress' biggest draw was always how effective it was against any deck that relied upon the combat step to win the game. But it can't boast such nowadays.

Dedicated, linear aggro decks (e.g. Madness, Goblins, Zoo) are practically nonexistent outside of some folks plugging away with them because they generally enjoy playing with them. It's no longer a large part of the greater metagame, and as such, Enchantress' overall matchups are a bit diminished; less stuff the deck is good against in the meta is bad for the deck's competitive ability.

And the remaining decks that win via combat have gained a whole bunch of game against Enchantress (or already had some). There aren't really any easy matchups anymore. Going up against Blue Tempo, assorted B/G/x archetypes, Death&Taxes, and even Infect isn't going to be easy; all these decks can effectively disrupt your gameplay and/or put you on a clock. Solitary isn't even robust against any deck with Deathrite Shaman unless you're running the Helm of Obedience / Rest in Peace package (which I really should give another try at this point)

And the combo matchup, aside from Dredge, is as miserable as ever. There's hardly any way within the deck's confines to interact with stack-based combo, and most of those cards are too slow, too ineffectual, or too easily responded to. Even Elves, in my experience, isn't favorable; it's too easy for them to tutor up an answer to any prison-effect you have on board. Maybe the G/W/b version of 'Tress can fight against the pointy-eared menace...I don't have much experience on that end.

The meta really doesn't favor the deck all that much. You can still grind out wins, and maybe tailor a sideboard full of silver bullets to a small meta, but placing in any large event or winning with consistency is gonna be difficult.

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Enchantress is meant to beat Delver, don't know what you're doing wrong...There's a guy at my store who always 3-1 or 4-0 because he crushes all the delver/midrange. Combo is nonexistent in our meta.

People tend to play lots of "do nothing", "cute", "oh look I'm creative" cards in their deck. Stop.

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Originally Posted by Weapon X

Why not just play the old words of wind build Freggle? Also 8 argothian's?

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Oops, I'm not sure what that extra 4 slots are when I get home I'll take a look.

Frankly, on the Words of wind question. I don't know. I think I'm a deck builder / tinkerer first and a competitive player second. I just build this out of curiosity, and got a little too excited and posted it here. This pros this has is similar to GW Helm. Can win without an enchantress effect on the board, and this deck goes off from a stupid low base. It is fairly weak to tons of removal though.

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Enchantress is meant to beat Delver, don't know what you're doing wrong...There's a guy at my store who always 3-1 or 4-0 because he crushes all the delver/midrange. Combo is nonexistent in our meta.

People tend to play lots of "do nothing", "cute", "oh look I'm creative" cards in their deck. Stop.

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Agree. However, never stop testing and pushing the boundaries of this deck. ...just don't get too down on it when a pile that has gotten so divergent from the base doesn't do well, and think it's Enchantress. At that time snap it back to a regular list and ask what do I need.

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Originally Posted by Watersaw

UPDATE: I'm retracting that statement, Myth Realized is awesome. I finally sucked it up and put Sterling Grove back in the deck and it made all the difference. It hasn't actually won me any games yet, but swinging for 6 as early as turn 4 has been good enough to force blocks or removal that could be spent elsewhere. Side note: the 3-mana pump ability has been more relevant than I would have ever thought.

Considering the Living Wish build a few posts up, the more I look at it the more I like it. I'm not sure I'm enough of a baller to run 4 wishes, but I am a huge fan of 1-and-1 on Helm of Obedience and Rest in Peace, especially after testing it out. It doesn't take up much space, and if you ever do draw the Helm early you get to crack Grove and play "Do you have it?" There's about a million things going on here, but you should be able to stay at least one step ahead. This is the most fun I've had playing this deck in a long time.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms

1 Sigil of the Empty Throne That's right, 15 enchantress effects. I'm not sold 100% on Sigil, but it's huge with Grove
3 Myth Realized Okay, 18 if you count these.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Replenish there was one game where I couldn't cast this without killing myself with Constellation triggers. Something to be aware of if you double up on Eidolon and don't run Words of W_____

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

3 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Oblivion Ring this isn't Banishing Light so I can break Blood Moon and cast Emrakul. This has come up.

2 Plains
6 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Taiga
1 Savannah I feel that Sterling Grove and Myth Realized make early access to white that much more crucial
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas

Sideboard is, as always, a work in progress.
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben decent-ish clock now that Myth Realized exists alongside Eidolon of Blossoms. Need to test more
2 Stony Silence on the fence
2 Suppression Field on the fence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Replenish this is probably not needed
1 Rest in Peace
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke so this and Sage were in competition with Blood Moon for slot 60. I went with Moon because even though it can screw us up it packs the biggest punch

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I like the direction this list is going, though I still think Suppression Field is a beating. I probably would cut the 3rd wincon (Sigil) or move it into the board over the second Replinish.