[Deck] Zoo

zoo just made top16 @ scg atl with no zeniths whatsoever just straight up critter and burn

4 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
2 Plateau
1 Savannah
2 Taiga
3 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
19 lands

3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
23 creatures

4 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
2 Price of Progress
18 other spells

Sideboard
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Lightning Helix
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Price of Progress
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Sulfuric Vortex
15 sideboard cards

Looks like a pretty solid list. I'd prefer to bump it to 20 land vs the 19 he has but other than that looks pretty tight. Wonder what the vortexes came in against and if they were worth it?

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Originally Posted by mmmetaphor

Looks like a pretty solid list. I'd prefer to bump it to 20 land vs the 19 he has but other than that looks pretty tight. Wonder what the vortexes came in against and if they were worth it?

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As a Stoneforge player, that card gives me fits.

Is a bad move thinking of switching the Loam Lions in favor of Vexing Devils??? Many fast creatures lure removals and a Devil may be dangerous both 4 damage and like a permanent!!!!!

I don't understand why zoo players aren't automatically including Steppe Lynx and Vexing Devil in their lists. Kird animals are a little more resilient but far less explosive. I suppose a Stoneforge setup would make the Kird animals better...but jeesh, I've been using Devils/Lynxes in my budget version and kicking ass against anything that doesn't play Chalice of the Void.

Steppe Lynx needs 10~12 fetchlands to work, and he eats Swords to Plowshares with almost no drawbacks. And Vexing Devil is just an upgraded Lava Spike, people never let him live.

"Kird" creatures are fine, because they're cheap enough to build a board very quickly and swarm. Moreover, they're off green, so Perish isn't a big deal.

My latest list is pretty much kicking ass as well:

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains/Forest (depends on my mood, but usually a Plains)

4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
2 Fireblast
2 Sylvan Library
2 Lightning Helix
2 Price of Progress

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Cursed Totem/Pithing Needle (Maverick vs Sneak Attack, depends on my mood)
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip

Sylvan Library is great in the main deck. It's kind of the only card advantage avaliable for this deck. Moreover, it draws cards when opposed to Swords to Plowshares, and grows Tarmogoyf when countered (and it's a really big counterspell-target).

Test this list if you have spare time, you won't regret it.

Because vexing devil is basically a burn card & steppe lynx is temporarily cool, then it becomes a 0/1 that waits for the next land tricks.

I am surprised the list didn't run goblin guides though, I'm guessing that's what's up with the fireblasts/price of progress instead

-edit- I mis remembered a card lol - loam lion / steppe lynx are not the same cards-

Loam lion is the white kird ape. I think you're confusing it with Steppe Lynx.

Vexing Devil is terrible. I would play Lava Spike over it every day (and I wouldn't play Lava Spike, don't get me wrong).

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

Steppe Lynx needs 10~12 fetchlands to work, and he eats Swords to Plowshares with almost no drawbacks. And Vexing Devil is just an upgraded Lava Spike, people never let him live.

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Exacly...so Devil almost always guaranteed 4 damage for :r: early in the game. Late game Devil is better than top-decking a Nacatl because they can't take the 4 to sac him...it might put them in Grim/burn range. Having most decks begin at 15 life (1 fetchland, 1 devil) seems like a good place for zoo to be starting their strategy.

Regarding 10-12 fetchlands, I was doing that with Kird Apes/Loam Lions...to feed Grim Lavamancer, or the hot card at the time which was Knight of the Reliquary. Besides, who plays less than 10 fetches in zoo? I'd be surprised if there is anyone.

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"Kird" creatures are fine, because they're cheap enough to build a board very quickly and swarm. Moreover, they're off green, so Perish isn't a big deal.

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Steppe Lynx and Vexing Devil are off green as well. This is a non-argument. What Lynx can do is hit for four damage on turn 2 and Vexing Devil can hit for 4 damage in most stages of the game...both with only one attack or being cast. Kird Animals don't have that kind of tempo-pushing element. They create more inevitability...but they are still susceptable to superior threats. If I'm going to play a lot of one-drops, I want those one-drops to really count in the early game. I'm more of a sligh-zoo player honestly (if you hadn't noticed) but I still think it's good logic regardless of your approach.

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My latest list is pretty much kicking ass as well:

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
2 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Plains/Forest (depends on my mood, but usually a Plains)

4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
3 Path to Exile
2 Fireblast
2 Sylvan Library
2 Lightning Helix
2 Price of Progress

Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Cursed Totem/Pithing Needle (Maverick vs Sneak Attack, depends on my mood)
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip

Sylvan Library is great in the main deck. It's kind of the only card advantage avaliable for this deck. Moreover, it draws cards when opposed to Swords to Plowshares, and grows Tarmogoyf when countered (and it's a really big counterspell-target).

Test this list if you have spare time, you won't regret it.

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I've been using Sylvan Library x2 at a minimum in zoo since I've been playing legacy. It is quite possibly the best card in the deck. I've played up to 4 but 2-3 seems about right. Currently playing 2 (because I traded my 3rd away for something.)

I agree with you on 2/3 points.
1. Play Vexing Devil
2. Play at LEAST 2 Sylvan Library. I prefer 3
3. I don't like Lynx, I'd rather play Goblin Guide or something else.

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Originally Posted by zulander

I agree with you on 2/3 points.
1. Play Vexing Devil
2. Play at LEAST 2 Sylvan Library. I prefer 3
3. I don't like Lynx, I'd rather play Goblin Guide or something else.

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That is at least a logical step to make. Goblin Guide's haste is fantastic, it's a definate upgrade from the Kird animals. I used a set of Guides until Devil was spoiled. I still have the Guides...but I'm having trouble cutting out cards to make it worth putting them back in. At that point I'd rather play straight-up red sligh or go blue with Delver/sligh.

As far as 'something else' goes...there isn't much. Maybe Figure of Destiny, but blah. I'd rather max out on Grims, Chains, or Helixes before I go for FoD.

hy fellas

As I can see from the actualy field,merfolks and goblins are back.

As everibody know,Zoo always had good matches against these two decks.But the field still infested with canadians,stoneblades and CB miracles.

When Im was playing zoo like 2 year ago,my field was pretty similar to these one (except there was no stoneblades and miracles,but landstill was normal).

So Im thinking if my old list woul do well on these new meta call:

Creatures [22]
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl

Instants [11]
3 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile

Sorceries [4]
4 Chain Lightning

Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library

Lands [21]
3 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Plateau
2 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills

SB

2 Krosan Grip
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Volcanic Fallout
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Phyrexian Metamorph


Considerations.:

Creatures: fast and pretty solid with 11 drops 1,and 8 drops 2.

3 reliquary assure the deck has a good mid/late game,and is an autowin against RUG delver.Playinsg with 11 fetchlands,its pretty easy he will ETB 4/4 at least.

instanst & sorcerys: 3 helix because costs 2,and I like to use removal + creature on a same turn.

Enchantments: 2 sylvan to evade discards,and all kind of screws.

21 lands: we play with 3 reliquary and more 2 drops as usual,so with amount of lands we can play more confident.
1 canopy to some extra gas sometimes,and 1 karakas to deal with Sneak atack G1.

SB can chance as field as usual.

gratz and sorry with my english :p

I am working on a list that is rather similar to yours with the same thoughts behind it.

atm my List looks like this

Lands [22]
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Temple Garden
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Karakas

Creatures [22]
4 Kird Ape
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg

Spells [16]
2 Sylvan Library
2 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Chain Lightning


Sideboard
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Tormods Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
3 REB
2 Pyroclasm
1 Teeg
2 Silence

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Manabase is pretty standard, Karakas against big mean guys, Temple Garden as substitute for Savannah (I rarely ever fetch on GW, so I will give it a try before i sink my money)

For Creatures I am not that sure, need to playtest more, some thoughts are
-changing Apes to Goblin Guides
-adding or removing toolbox-Creatures for GSZ (maybe movin Thrun to maindeck)
-trying 2 Stoneforge with Jitte and SoFaI (so nice against Canadian and UR-Delver)
-cutting 1 Knight for 1 Terravore (with GSZ i have better access and in most games Vore is bigger and more relevant as Trample > Tricks from Knight)

Overall the List is rather light on burn, but I couldn't find more slots, so I will test from here and look how it goes. Sideboard is not finished yet.

From my experiences with Big Zoo ( sporting 4 KOTR) 21 Lands were always plenty. I never ran into problems casting an Elspeth, Knight Errant which I brought in from the SB, so your Thrun should do fine with 21 lands.
So, you could cut a land for a burn spell, preferably a Lightning Helix so your not stone cold to opposing Chalices out of the SB. Maybe a fetch if you insist on that Karakas.

Overall, I am not sure how I am feeling about the Maverick tricks (GSZ, Teeg, Karakas) in Zoo. Maverick will always do that better, IMHO, and Zoo is being slowed down an still doesn't have a good late game.

Idea behind GSZ was getting more reliant your good dudes (Goyf, Nacatl) because the Canadian-MU tends to be an attrition-war for me everytime and it basically comes down to "who draws more big dudes". A Topdecked Zenith gets you your Critter + you can outplay Spell Snare. Other Reason was the rise of Counterbalance, it is not very funny with a normal Zoo-List to play against balance. GSZ helps this too. Toolbox for GSZ is maybe useless/bad in Zoo, but I included only Critter that I would play in Zoo anyway, so maybe it doesn't hurt that hard^^

but thx for the suggestion on the Landcount, I am not that familiar with BigZoo

Due to the omnipresent counterspells and CB/Top and Zoo really struggling when it's threads getting repeatedly countered, I included a Cavern of Souls as my 21st land. You can't zenith for much more than 3 anyways until it's the (very) late game. The question is: whose slot are those zeniths occuping? It's either burn, critter, jitte or Elspeth (in my list, mind that) and I would rather topdeck one of those than a GSZ.
How did some writer on SCG in a Zoo primer put it re GSZ: "This is America! There's no way I'm paying 2 mana for a Wild Nacatl!"

best

Is it time to reopen the zoo for summer?
It seems this deck does well Mav, RUG,Merfolk and Goblins.
How are we beating control and combo?
Upgrading to big zoo might make us a worse version of Punshing Mav.

Big Zoo is better than Maverick Vs. Rug, about the same Vs. UWx control, and worse Vs. Combo. Meta call IMO.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

Big Zoo is better than Maverick Vs. Rug, about the same Vs. UWx control, and worse Vs. Combo. Meta call IMO.

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Big Zu is the ISH.