Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Ended up going 4-3 at a win a lotus event, went 4-0 into 0-3. Ending up beating burn, miracles, aggro loam and white eldrazi. Lost to aggro loam, bug delver (lost 1 game because I was an idiot and didn't keep track of time going to 5 guys) and grixis delver. On the plus side I got to meet Mapson and he's a pretty chill dude.
Besides that poor result i've been wanting to run an EE main but I have no idea what to cut. My first thoughts were swapping the Magus with an EE in the board or maybe a top. I really don't want to cut the revoker because of the number of d&t players running around. Do you guys have any recommendations?
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
2 wooded foothills
3 bloodstained mire
4 Mountain
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Welder
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Blood Moon
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 enlightened tutor
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
My list is slightly different of yours but i can still give you my 2 cents.
In my opinion, 7 tutors for painter is too much, i found 5 to be the sweet number. I currently run 3 recruiters and 2 e.tutors, and I feel quite confident to get an early painter with 5 tutors + 4 painters = 11/60 (+sensei top help...). For me these 2 are the more obvious cuts. As a personal pref, I would cut the magus of the moon. Blood moon is so strong because of the lack of legs. I am ok with monoR list with magus, but since we got a tutor for the moon with the white splash, I prefer to focus on landing the enchant. Recently, I also found Jaya to be irrelevant most of the time. I don't know if it's due to the match-ups I faced, but I sided it out 90% of the G2/3 in my last matches, and I am seriously considering cutting it from the 75...
I might also change a mountain for a plain to be able to cast tutors and side cards under BM. Somtimes it will make you mulligan, but this is quite unusual.
Anyhow, I never felt the need of EE in painter, would be curious to see if it works fine. I'm curious of the succeed you got with the LED also. Most of my hand with LED were super clunky when i tried it, some months ago.
(sry for my english...)
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
Besides that poor result i've been wanting to run an EE main but I have no idea what to cut. My first thoughts were swapping the Magus with an EE in the board or maybe a top. I really don't want to cut the revoker because of the number of d&t players running around. Do you guys have any recommendations?
I'd let go of Jaya.
She's really good for getting out of freaky moments and curbstomping barreled opponents or merfolk, but all in all those are fringe moments or win-more. She's often a dead draw pre-board, and you also bring in EE to deal with chalices which are one of the big reasons to have her main anyway.
I'd also discuss against mb Revoker, but the meta-call is understandable. 1-of Needle side's been working great for me tho, leaving mainboard open for more speed game 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nouille
In my opinion, 7 tutors for painter is too much, i found 5 to be the sweet number.
Don't forget that E-tutor fetch Grindstone too! Especially game 1 we'll want to access both pieces asap. At least in my opinion. In dire needs it also grabs Ensnaring Bridge/EE, making them available as 1-ofs.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morcrux
Don't forget that E-tutor fetch Grindstone too! Especially game 1 we'll want to access both pieces asap. At least in my opinion. In dire needs it also grabs Ensnaring Bridge/EE, making them available as 1-ofs.
Yup, I totaly emphasize this point, my sentence was a big shortcut in order to state my point of view (in the same way, recruiter is not only a tutor for painter obviously...). But I still think 7 tutors too much. The problem with e.tutor is the card disavantage, and runing 3 of is a lot. I used to play 2 recruiters and 3 tutors when i didn't have my recruiters playset, and well... I was often hellbent turn 3/4 haha. At least it synergize with ensnaring bridge !
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nouille
Yup, I totaly emphasize this point, my sentence was a big shortcut in order to state my point of view (in the same way, recruiter is not only a tutor for painter obviously...). But I still think 7 tutors too much. The problem with e.tutor is the card disavantage, and runing 3 of is a lot. I used to play 2 recruiters and 3 tutors when i didn't have my recruiters playset, and well... I was often hellbent turn 3/4 haha. At least it synergize with ensnaring bridge !
Not too long ago I'd agree, I disliked the card. It is indeed card disadvantage, but in the core we're a combo deck, needing quality over quantity. Or in this case combo pieces.
I often side out 2-3 tutors alongside fast-mana, but I really like having 11 Painters and 7 Grindstones for the first game against unknown opponent.
But that's just my 2 cents, there are several ways this deck can play out. My point was to not water down E.tutor to a painter-only tutor :)
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nouille
My list is slightly different of yours but i can still give you my 2 cents.
In my opinion, 7 tutors for painter is too much, i found 5 to be the sweet number. I currently run 3 recruiters and 2 e.tutors, and I feel quite confident to get an early painter with 5 tutors + 4 painters = 11/60 (+sensei top help...). For me these 2 are the more obvious cuts. As a personal pref, I would cut the magus of the moon. Blood moon is so strong because of the lack of legs. I am ok with monoR list with magus, but since we got a tutor for the moon with the white splash, I prefer to focus on landing the enchant. Recently, I also found Jaya to be irrelevant most of the time. I don't know if it's due to the match-ups I faced, but I sided it out 90% of the G2/3 in my last matches, and I am seriously considering cutting it from the 75...
Maybe our playstyles are different but this seems like an odd change to me. I'll admit i'm way too brave and keep hands sometimes that most painter players probably wouldn't keep. I think that first and foremost we're a combo deck and we should definitely try to focus on our combo in any way possible. any non combo thing that we try to do ends up being kind of medicore because of how clunky some of our cards are. I've tried doing fancy stuff in the past like playing an Ajani main to hedge against decks like shardless and miracles but it's always just ended up blowing up in my face. If you haven't tried 3 e-tutors main I would highly recommend it, it changes up the dynamics of a lot of your matchups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nouille
I might also change a mountain for a plain to be able to cast tutors and side cards under BM. Somtimes it will make you mulligan, but this is quite unusual.
I tried a plains but in my games I was getting a lot of hands that were Plains + Sol land with the rest of the cards being red. I'm going to take a little break from painter but i'm going to try it at some point in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nouille
Anyhow, I never felt the need of EE in painter, would be curious to see if it works fine. I'm curious of the succeed you got with the LED also. Most of my hand with LED were super clunky when i tried it, some months ago.
(sry for my english...)
I like LED, I was a little suspicious of it when I started playing but i've turned around quite a bit. It speeds us up considerable and when you are racing against decks like storm/elves having the ability to turn 1/2 them a lot sooner becomes really relevant. If you have garbage in your hand but have a recruiter it basically just becomes a black lotus. I usually side it out against blue decks if I show it to them game 1 but you can usually put the fear of god into people by playing a combo piece and an LED. I don't think it's 100% needed but it's one of those things that is nice to have.
I like EE in general, it's a fantastic catch all for most of what gives us trouble. It kills delvers, drs, chalices, pyromancer tokens and sometimes even gets 2 drops like revokers.
Just having the ability to X for 1 your opponent seems really good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morcrux
I'd let go of Jaya.
She's really good for getting out of freaky moments and curbstomping barreled opponents or merfolk, but all in all those are fringe moments or win-more. She's often a dead draw pre-board, and you also bring in EE to deal with chalices which are one of the big reasons to have her main anyway.
I'd also discuss against mb Revoker, but the meta-call is understandable. 1-of Needle side's been working great for me tho, leaving mainboard open for more speed game 1.
I figure i'll just address the Jaya thing at once since both of you brought her up. I'm probably just being very stubborn about removing but I just like having her in the deck. She feels like if she isn't dealt with soon she just ends up taking over the game. Do you guys run a Nahiri in her place? It feels wrong to not play our 3 drop planeswalker in the 75.
I think for the time being i'm going to switch the EE and Magus around from the main and side. Thanks folks!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
It feels wrong to not play our 3 drop planeswalker in the 75.
Also understandable, wasn't cool cutting her but felt necessary :)
Quote:
709.1c A flip card’s color and mana cost don’t change if the permanent is flipped. Also, any changes to it by external effects will still apply.
Just want to point this out, since the rule was changed as of "Shadows over Innistrad". This means EE can't kill Delver alongside elemental tokens anymore :<
But as far as I'm concerned there ain't any other flip-cards than Delver in legacy atm, so EE is still boss at killing stuff.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morcrux
Also understandable, wasn't cool cutting her but felt necessary :)
Just want to point out that there was a cmc rule change with the flip-cards as of Shadows of Innistrad. The flip-side no longer got 0 cmc, but shares the cost of the front, thus EE can't kill Delver alongside elemental tokens anymore :<
But as far as I'm concerned there ain't any other flip-cards than Delver in legacy atm, so EE is still boss at killing stuff.
I guess each situation you are going to use it is going to be different but I think overall it's a good change in general. I think having the ability to kill a delver and a drs (or mongoose if people still play that card anymore) is WAY better than killing delver and tokens.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Hey all. I recently picked up the deck and have been having a blast with it at local tournaments. I took it to scg classic in orlando this weekend, and I went x-3 losing to burn in all three matchups and the day before, I played in a classic, going x-1 (again losing to burn). The match seems downright unwinnable unless I happen to combo quickly and have 1/2 protections spells to stop him from killing painter.
What can I do to improve the matchup? Is there a way I can morph the sideboard without negatively affecting other matchups? Or, do I just have to hope to be lucky and not get matched against burn?
This is my list for reference:
3 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Spellskite
Creatures [16]
4 Blood Moon
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Spells [25]
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Arid Mesa
3 City of Traitors
1 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
2 Plateau
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Containment Priest
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Nahiri
3 Sudden Shock
1 Surgical Extraction
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kinghrothgar12
Hey all. I recently picked up the deck and have been having a blast with it at local tournaments. I took it to scg classic in orlando this weekend, and I went x-3 losing to burn in all three matchups and the day before, I played in a classic, going x-1 (again losing to burn). The match seems downright unwinnable unless I happen to combo quickly and have 1/2 protections spells to stop him from killing painter.
What can I do to improve the matchup? Is there a way I can morph the sideboard without negatively affecting other matchups? Or, do I just have to hope to be lucky and not get matched against burn?
Yeah the burn matchup is pretty bad... You got the strategy down, pretty much combo off before they get going. We have a good variety of cards against burn like Spellskite, Warmth, Sphere of Law, Leyline of Sanctity, Absolute Law, Burrenton Forge-Tender & Worship, etc. The issue that a lot of these cards cut down on some of the versatility of some of the sideboard slots and they're also some combination of clunky and slow.
If you want a silver bullet against burn i'd recommend Sphere of Law, Warmth or Leyline of Sanctity (also pretty solid against discard and storm).
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Here is what I've been trying with up and down success. I played some leagues and usually go at least 3-2. Big test was a paper tourney where I misplayed a few times for a bad showing but followed it up with a 5-0 league so I think it has merit with this meta.
19 usual land
Recruiter/Painter
3 welder
2 ssg
Jaya
Stone/moon
3 top
3 petal
1 Bridge/led/EE
7 blast
3 tutor
Sb
3 lightning bolt
2 pyroclasm
2 sulfur elemental
2 nahiri
Hedge Mage
Thorn
Crypt
Canonist
Bridge
Revoker/magus depending on expected meta
EE main is much more valuable at this current stage. I put the clasms in for the 4c delver matchup but it has great utility all around.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kap'n Cook
Here is what I've been trying with up and down success. I played some leagues and usually go at least 3-2. Big test was a paper tourney where I misplayed a few times for a bad showing but followed it up with a 5-0 league so I think it has merit with this meta.
19 usual land
Recruiter/Painter
3 welder
2 ssg
Jaya
Stone/moon
3 top
3 petal
1 Bridge/led/EE
7 blast
3 tutor
Sb
3 lightning bolt
2 pyroclasm
2 sulfur elemental
2 nahiri
Hedge Mage
Thorn
Crypt
Canonist
Bridge
Revoker/magus depending on expected meta
EE main is much more valuable at this current stage. I put the clasms in for the 4c delver matchup but it has great utility all around.
I'm sure plenty of people have asked you this already but have you gotten the chance to try out fiery confluence? The 4 cmc is a bummer especially in delver matchups but I think having a high ceiling makes up for it.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
I'm sure plenty of people have asked you this already but have you gotten the chance to try out fiery confluence? The 4 cmc is a bummer especially in delver matchups but I think having a high ceiling makes up for it.
I know others have been swearing by them, but I didn't really like them to be honest. The matchups where I truly wanted them the cmc felt too high and it was too slow for me. Usual case is that you can cast it turn 3 (barring disruption) and a sweeper like that felt too slow vs elves, infect for example. DnT is even harder because they pressure your mana. I'd rather just run a cheaper effect like pyroclasm and lose out on the ability to dome for 6 or also handle chalice
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kap'n Cook
I know others have been swearing by them, but I didn't really like them to be honest. The matchups where I truly wanted them the cmc felt too high and it was too slow for me. Usual case is that you can cast it turn 3 (barring disruption) and a sweeper like that felt too slow vs elves, infect for example. DnT is even harder because they pressure your mana. I'd rather just run a cheaper effect like pyroclasm and lose out on the ability to dome for 6 or also handle chalice
I played a lot against Dnt with painter and in every single game a had confluence I was able to cast it and win the game a few turns later. Feeling like the only matches I lose to Dnt are where they have pretty fast jitte hands with multiple wastelands/ports.
The elves MU gets slower post board because of the disruption they board in. So it's not that much of a problem casting (if you still have it after therapy...) it here. And against infect I wouldn't board in all 3 confluence (assuming you have 3), 1 or maybe 2 not more. in my opinion infect is just a pretty good MU and becomes even better after boardind with sudden shock/blasts/Moon/creatures to block that are 1/1 or bigger.
The only delver MU where I would bring in confluence is grixis. there only softcounters post board are 1 spell pierce and 4 daze (assuming most played noah walker list) and with sudden shocks and blasts there is almost no way they have you dead by turn 4. So again there should be the time to resolve it. And often they must spent their counters on your other bombs...
The reason I played confluence is by a lack of sideboard slots. I wanted some kind of mass removal and artifact destruction and that in reasonable numbers so I would draw it when I needed it at GP Prague. Eldrazi was pretty big at that time so there was the need of a card like that. With less Eldrazi around I can see going down from 3 confluence to maybe 2.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Some people like to go deep, but jack seems to always stay in the middle of the road, and he puts up results. Maybe investigating what lies beneath is more important than one card verses the other?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
Some people like to go deep, but jack seems to always stay in the middle of the road, and he puts up results. Maybe investigating what lies beneath is more important than one card verses the other?
Soooo true
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Both routes got their ups and downs, and in the end I suppose it's meta dependant. Confluence can bring big blowouts to the table, but at the cost of less consistency compared to cheaper versions.
I've been running 3 confluence 4 bolt to test the alternate burn plan against certain matchups, and can't say it's been impressive. I mean, it's like a 4-6 cards combo that might snag some creatures along the way, and not to mention it's hella lot to side in. I think we're better off resolving RiP/Crypt alongside normal combo against eldrazi-decks, as we can even tutor those.
But that's my 2 cents, G le P had his results with burn-plan after all so in theory it's potential, and could be swell in certain metas. But in general I think Jack's on the right path atm, seeing how much % is occupied by miracles/DnT/Grixis in the international meta. In the long run a more castable cost is more valueable than the extra points of damage.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morcrux
Both routes got their ups and downs, and in the end I suppose it's meta dependant. Confluence can bring big blowouts to the table, but at the cost of less consistency compared to cheaper versions.
I've been running 3 confluence 4 bolt to test the alternate burn plan against certain matchups, and can't say it's been impressive. I mean, it's like a 4-6 cards combo that might snag some creatures along the way, and not to mention it's hella lot to side in. I think we're better off resolving RiP/Crypt alongside normal combo against eldrazi-decks, as we can even tutor those.
But that's my 2 cents, G le P had his results with burn-plan after all so in theory it's potential, and could be swell in certain metas. But in general I think Jack's on the right path atm, seeing how much % is occupied by miracles/DnT/Grixis in the international meta. In the long run a more castable cost is more valueable than the extra points of damage.
How do you think the deck fairs now in the current meta?
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CovenantElite30
How do you think the deck fairs now in the current meta?
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If we're looking at the DTB I think we're favored against Eldrazi and D&T. I think that ant/infect are 50/50 maybe 40/60 at most. Miracles and Grixis are a pain in the rear but completely beatable.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CptHaddock
If we're looking at the DTB I think we're favored against Eldrazi and D&T. I think that ant/infect are 50/50 maybe 40/60 at most. Miracles and Grixis are a pain in the rear but completely beatable.
How many new Chandra would you put in the deck?
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