Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I am happy to concede my deck is more GW Weenie than GW Stompy.. should I be in another thread? I'm concerned about putting a solid 60 cards together not the naming convention/archetype.
The thing is, while Berserk gets crazy with other pumps, +3/+0 Trample for a G is often good enough. At first I'm like hmm do I even need Berserk in this list, but tried it anyways so far to good effect.
The fact is with GW your creatures are for the most part bigger than Mono. In Mono builds we have some 1-power attacking dudes: Silhana, Bogle, Scryb Sprite. These guys are pretty hopeless with *just* a Berserk. In GW, half the creatures are 1 or 2 power while the other half are 3 or 4 power. Plus the inbuilt synergy of the Exalted buff. This makes Berserk better (in comparison) on its own in GW. Swinging with a 8/4 Trampling Jotun Grunt (who is staring down shrunken Goyfs) is awesome.
Add to that there are a still few ways you can get a pre-pump before Berserk, albeit not many. Exalted, Rancor, Jitte counters and SoFI. Also double Berserk, which as we all know can and does happen.
It acts as a random combat trick most don't expect. Lastly, trample+buff is just what a deck like with equipment needs (I'm looking at you SoFI). Being able to get damage through to the opponent in this scenario is key. Due to equipment we can run a higher threat count. This means you're less likely to draw hands full of pump spells and no business.
I'll admit I haven't tested some other recent builds I've seen listed here - my playtesting time is pretty limited. That said I do want to sleeve up some other builds and give my impressions over the next week.
@ GuiBrazil: Gleeful Sabotage... this is a prime example of why to splash white. Pridemage is just better in so many ways. This deck is all about swinging with dudes. 4 Pridemage means you'll have access to removal if you need it, but they act as a 2/2 Exalted when you don't. They are actually fine in multiples with their exalted stacking, so you can run 3-4; meaning you should draw one when you need it. Gleeful is good in some narrow situations sure, but it also could be completely dead. Its not like you need to run a lot of non-basics to support White at a minimum anyways. Even in the face of Wasteland, this deck has a very low curve. I don't understand all of the fear of non-basic-hate in this thread. Look at Zoo. Its a Tier 1 deck that runs AT MOST 3 Basics. And despite all the Wasteland and Moon effects its a Deck to Beat. The reason is because it plays the best spells it can and punishes decks that try to play fair with basics & Gleeful Sabotage.
Regarding sideboards, I think its pretty pointless to discuss them too much as a whole unless people are posting what kind of metagame they play in.
For mine, it has a noticeable lack of graveyard hate. I did say I hadn't looked much at it, and Glowrider will probably be too slow and be dropped, potentially making room for something along these lines. That said, Jotun Grunt is MD and is a house. I own and play Dredge and this guy has slaughtered me a number of times - Dredge has no answer for it. Add to that I have Swords for Ichorids and can usually sacrifice a Pridemage to remove Bridges, Teeg means no Dread Return, and the matchup is good enough. White showing its usefulness here :) Relic and co won't ensure you stop Reanimator anyways (as they have Show n Tell). It seems the entire Source is fearing over this deck right now. Thankfully almost no-one in my meta plays it. If I had to come up against it and they named Green I have StP. If they name White, at least I have Aether Vial and would try to race them. I'd potentially swap SoIF for SoLS. Vial in Serra and block all day.
Whoo, what a ramble.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
I like StP over Path too...
Why? Accelerating your opponent sucks, but in a do or die deck I don't like StP. Victory and defeat could be the difference of a few points of life in the early game.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LordEvilTeaCup
Why? Accelerating your opponent sucks, but in a do or die deck I don't like StP. Victory and defeat could be the difference of a few points of life in the early game.
It depends a lot actually,but it's mostly because of Kavu... Although against Reanimator, Path would be better (If you manage to be able to play it against their threat). Against a lot of Decks, you will be removing 2/x and 3/x creatures that would give you trouble, like Dark Confidant or Magus of the Tabernacle, and the extradamage can be dealt more easily in a clean field.
But it's hard to say which one is better, since Kavu can use Swords' help, and otherwise Path would be better.
@ Gleeful Sabotage - It's not a bad card. It can go thru a stabilished Counterbalance +Top or a Chalice @2 as long as you have 2 creatures on board, which usually happens. Although Krosan postboard is more effective.
I don't splash because I find myself in need of extra manabase (even if it's Hierarch) instead of running a high count of power/skill - effective creatures and more pumps to use a highly effective Berserk. I try to make a more stable manabase, and get a slower attack. And for me, the deck is running just fine monocolored. In current legacy, every deck got it's bad points.
Just another Edit: If I was to take a splashed list to a tourney, It would be pratically the same as umbowta's. (Except maybe I'd run bogle)
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I am playing the white splash right now and it is doing very well. Besides Loam Lion I am also running Steppe Lynx. A second turn rancored exalted 7/6 Lynx is awesome!!! This deck is so incredible fast! Third turn Kills much more common.
I must say that Jotun Grunt seems a nice 2 drop when playing a white splash, but I really do not know what to cut...Kavu and Silhana are auto included and Pridemage makes this deck very good.
4x Loam Lion
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Kavu Predator
4x Silhana Ledgewalker
4x Berserk
4x Giant Growth
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Rancor
4xInvigorate
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Misty Rainforest
4x savannah
1x Forest
1x Plains
1x Flagstones of Trokair
Sideboard is still open, I was thinking about:
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Gaddock Teeg
3x Krosan Grip
4x Hidden Gibbons
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
@Gui-Brasil, Mono green is still what's sleeved up but I am definitely interested in continuing to explore the white splash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
swordoffireandice
I am playing the white splash right now and it is doing very well. Besides Loam Lion I am also running Steppe Lynx.
Oooh I should have thought of Steppe Lynx. Duh. Along those lines, your manabase could use some tweaking. Another fetch and one less Savannah...and why Flagstones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
swordoffireandice
I must say that Jotun Grunt seems a nice 2 drop when playing a white splash, but I really do not know what to cut...Kavu and Silhana are auto included and Pridemage makes this deck very good.
I don't necessarily think that Kavu is auto included in white splash stompy (I really wanna call the deck ZooGasm, lol, white splash, ;P eeeww) Jotun Grunt provides a threat that's potentially soooo much more potent than the somewhat cutesy/gimmicky Kavu => Invigorate pseudocombo. I mean, come on, maindeck help against Dredge, Reanimator, and opposing Mongoose(s) or Goyf(s)...or you could cast a 2/2 trample bear that MIGHT get the lifegain benefit. I'd say drop 2 Kavu's and try the Grunts. It sounds great on paper anyway.
[EDIT] I think we should probably start another thread in New and Developmental for white splash, aka ZooGasm, instead of clogging up the monogreen thread. Any objections to calling it ZooGasm? Any other name suggestions before I start a thread? [/EDIT]
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
umbowta
[EDIT] I think we should probably start another thread in New and Developmental for white splash, aka ZooGasm, instead of clogging up the monogreen thread. Any objections to calling it ZooGasm? Any other name suggestions before I start a thread? [/EDIT]
Hmmm... I don't think so, the deck idea is the same as Berserk Stompy, Zoo players usually don't run pumps claiming it's not better than removals/burns. I think it is, and should remain in the Berserk Stompy thread. I mean, if white splash is what everyone is going, that shall be fine to discuss Gw Berserk Stompy more and ditch G Berserk Stompy. I got a lot of ideas from this thread for my monocolored deck even though not all got to be used. I think it's like Goblins, that have different Splashes, and eventually a splash is better than the other... It also helps people to determine which one they like most. :smile:
Oh, and ZooGasm? where did it come from? xD
Oh, and also, this thread is already supposed to cover Splashes, like the Gwr list @first page. If you guys think it's worthy, I can add the "raw Gw list" to the first page too.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Wait a little while for the idea to be tested before adding it to the front page...if that's what you want to do. You really don't want to be promoting the crap out of a splash that's still waaaay developmental on the front page of an Established thread. There are at least 6 different cards that are still being debated.
The name ZooGasm came from my perverted mind...of course. The Gasm portion is clearly a play on the white splash terminology.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
umbowta
Wait a little while for the idea to be tested before adding it to the front page...if that's what you want to do. You really don't want to be promoting the crap out of a splash that's still waaaay developmental on the front page of an Established thread. There are at least 6 different cards that are still being debated.
The name ZooGasm came from my perverted mind...of course. The Gasm portion is clearly a play on the white splash terminology.
It was a rhetorical question ;D
Sure, I'll wait.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
umbowta
@Gui-Brasil, Mono green is still what's sleeved up but I am definitely interested in continuing to explore the white splash.Oooh I should have thought of Steppe Lynx. Duh. Along those lines, your manabase could use some tweaking. Another fetch and one less Savannah...and why Flagstones?
[EDIT] I think we should probably start another thread in New and Developmental for white splash, aka ZooGasm, instead of clogging up the monogreen thread. Any objections to calling it ZooGasm? Any other name suggestions before I start a thread? [/EDIT]
The mana base could indeed use some tweaking.
I also think we do not need another thread. This game is always so much fun because we have a lot of options. Mono green, GW, GU berserk stompy are all options. It also depends on every new set with new cards coming out.
I must say that I like all the input on this thread!
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I have asked Brandon (emidln) about Chalice of the Void against ANT, and his answer is that against Aggro, the normal sideboard is Echoing Truth or Chain of Vapor, both will let they go of by turn 2 or 3 the same way. He says Mindbreak Trap is more likely to buy you time, unless it's a duress version. Best option both cases is tu rush them the early, the better.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gui_Brasil
I have asked Brandon (emidln) about Chalice of the Void against ANT, and his answer is that against Aggro, the normal sideboard is
Echoing Truth or
Chain of Vapor, both will let they go of by turn 2 or 3 the same way. He says
Mindbreak Trap is more likely to buy you time, unless it's a duress version. Best option both cases is tu rush them the early, the better.
Yep, just try to rush them. Early damage is very important. If you can use Berserk second turn on a pumped creature, or just have pump spells, use them! The more damage you get through, the less likely it is that they can go off.
Gaddock Teeg has a place in my sideboard though....splashing white increases the chance of winning against combo decks. :wink:
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Berserk Stompy report by César Fernández
Definitely, Berserk Stompy isn’t, and will never be, the best deck in the format. ¿Why then am I talking about it? Because we aren’t only talking about the best, and thanks to the results raised by this deck in past seasons, a certain tradition has build up in this country. Furthermore, it has some strengths and advantages that really should be considered.
¿Why to play Berserk Stompy?
As I’ve said before, I’m not going to try and convince you that you are just going to go and win a Grand Prix with this deck, but there are many aspects for which this deck is definitely worth playing.
First of all, you are facing one of the few decks that cost less than 200€ in the format (275$). Legacy is format that after some time is worth it, economically speaking, but if you can’t afford a big card expense, you’ll find yourself a big friend in this deck. Thanks to the apparition, as the star card, of Berserk in the pack From the Vault: Exiled, it’s price is quite low right now. Having this in mind, the rest of the deck doesn’t cost more than 50€, rounding up. There aren’t many decks that cost less than this that can achieve any good results in Legacy, and with this I don’t just mean to win a tournament, but I haven’t ended any tournament for some years without having more defeats than victories.
If the mone factor doesn’t really convince you, but you are sick of loosing to those ugly Goblins, you little brother’s Sligh deck, or your favourite store “pro’s” Zoo…. Forget your woes! Berserk Stompy is the solution to all those problems. Okay, maybe others might come up but, there is no doubt, that aggro decks will be your least preocupation.
It’s game style, the strategy overall, and also the abilities of some of our creatures will make of our deck an enemy tough to beat for aggro decks. It’s faster than almost all of them, and even if we both have explosive hands, our win conditions will be almost unstoppable. It’s true that for that same reasons other decks might have better pairing against control, but that’s a problem you’ll have to face if you choose this build. (*I guess he means Stax)
Berserk Stompy is and excellent option for metagame, specially if your area is full of aggressive decks.
Card by Card
The deck is quite easy to play, so I've chosen not to spend all the article on that. Playing your critters, in a certain order, under a certain thought and criterion, sometimes quite obvious depending on the build you are facing, and then Pumping them. It's quite more important explaining, at least under my point of view, those little but important things that we have talked about before, anyhow, we will talked about why I am including each card.
Forest. Real good, it gives us mana! After a lot of time and thought we can say that with 15 lands the decks runs smoothly, and that the 15 basic lands construction is much better than the 10 basics and 7 fetch ones. Fetch Lands gives us a drawback for an almost imperceptible betterment.
Skyshroud elites and Tattermunge Maniac are our first line of attack, their 2 strength is totally necessary to put the pressure we need in the game the first turns. Slippery Boggle's and Silhana Ledgewalker's enemy shroud are extraordinary. This last one is indeed our best and most important creature. Having this girl on the board and a couple bumps is a house against many many decks.
Skarrgan Pit-Skulk is just as essential against lots of decks. One of these rancored is an unbeatable enemy, and there's nothing better than a nicely pumped and berserked skarrgan against an infinite army of blockers on the other side that don't make up to his strength. Kavu Predator is the house (I think this is how what you call when a card is awesome, "atraco" in spanish) and minicombo of the deck. Next to invigorate, it can get you a nice 5/5 trampler on turn 2, nothing we should say no to in this deck.
On the Bumps section, Berserk is the most important one, transforming all the other bumps in the kind of threats your really don't want to be facing. Invigorate is the second best in our deck, it's combinations with Berserk, Kavu and Skarrgan make him totally necessary, not playing it or playing Bounty of the Hunt is an error. It gives us crazy advantage against lightning effects, so we always want to have one at hand. Rancor is like a 2/x creature with haste and indestructible, give it time if you can't destroy it, and it'll beat you. Might of Old Krosa is an improved Giant Growth, and Seal of Strength fixes our mana making our road to victory as easy as desired, even protecting our creatures when we are out all tapped out. Vines of Vastwood are enormous, can you ask more of a +4/+4, that counters destroy effects?
Our aid (sideboards) comes focused on our worst enemies, quite simple. The lonely Forest helps us as much as with help against Stax and Trinisphere, as a help to get to pay the cost of our awesome Seeds of Innocence, which are WIN when facing Stax, Affinity and similars.
Vexing Susher is our bench's Most Valuable Player, not play 4 of them would be an error too, since if there's something for sure abundant in the format that is counterspells, specially in the decks we don't like being up against, so there is nothing better to help us say "Yes!" to the typical "No". Furthermore, Chalices of the Void just get ruined when facing this dude. Mindbreak Trap is a quite recent support for facing combo players who might wanna risk taking those Duress out against us or who try to go out too soon. Before we would see four copies of Tormod's Crypt, but we really don't need them. We don't have any deck manipulation, so we can't assure having one in our first cards. Anyway, Ichorid in Legacy has gone an acceptable pairing against us thanks to their Bloodghast version... slower but more stable? Perfect for us, that turn or two longer they'll take is just what we need.
Rushwood Legate is the last card in our sideborad, and it could just be another Forest, against Stax, and a Gaea's Blessing for the Painter's and Solidarities we might find, but it just ends up being extremely effective and fast facing some blue decks. Too far for Spell Snare and Daze to get her, too expensive for Pernicious Deed, and the same goes for Engineered Explosives.
To Wrap it all Up
If your finally give this build a try, just remember that it won't all be easy and pretty for you. White Stax is horrible, they can combo you before you might do them, the best control decks, before good players, will be unbeatable, and the many Counterbalance, Vedalken Shakles and Sower of Temptation won't make things easy for you. But if you want to play it just go and do it and... Good Luck, and enjoy it!
Main Deck
15 Forest
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Skarrgan Pit-skulk
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Slippery Boggle
4 Silhana Ledgewaker
4 Kavu Predator
4 Rancor
3 Vines of Vastwood
4 Might of old Krosa
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
2 Seal of Strength
Sideboard
1 Forest
4 Seeds of Innocence
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Rushwood Legate
by César Fernández, "Chapuzas"
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Just a thing to keep in mind, this report was written a couple weeks before GP Madrid and maybe even before Iona came out, for he doesn't mention her in Ichorid or anywhere, as well as he doesn't mention reanimator.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
swordoffireandice
Yep, just try to rush them. Early damage is very important. If you can use Berserk second turn on a pumped creature, or just have pump spells, use them! The more damage you get through, the less likely it is that they can go off.
Gaddock Teeg has a place in my sideboard though....splashing white increases the chance of winning against combo decks. :wink:
Kind of... Gaddock teeg is as expected by combo as thorn of amethyst, and will be equally bounced by Chain of Vapor... On the other hand, a possible white side against them are Orim's Chant and Silence. Gaddock Teeg is great against decks with high costing cards like Wrath and against decks with Chalice or Engineered Explosives, which means he is good against Stax and Landstill, both hard matches for us.
The worst problem against ANT is that hybrid versions running Doomsday and/or Ill-Gotten Gains can go around the Ad Nauseam life loss plan, denying us the rush plan.
@NihilObstat - Nice Article! Will have to comment that latter.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
I agree with Gui on Teeg. Not great against combo, but really the best option against stax and landstill. Those matches are tough. I think our best option against combo is probably chant effects. I am not playing any in my board cause I plan on just bringing in Teeg to slow them down enough to just kill them faster.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Some comments about César's article.
First, I agree that Stompy won't be the best deck in the format: Stompy never was, and it exists since long time. But as Umbowta said, it's better that way, I like the surprise effect!
About his build, it is entirely build around being an all-in combo deck: 15 lands, 24 creatures, 21 pumps. Going 21 pumps with 3 Vastwood and 8 enemy-shroud creatures means he is willing to beat that way, or gloriously die trying. What bothers me is that 15 forests seems a bit little for a Berserk using Vastwoods, he probably wants to either use vastwood as a shroud-only option, or as a late-game option, probably for a final beat. I'd use 3 seal instead, so that 15 forest gets even more consistant.
The pro-side of that list is that it goes straigh against aggro (and thus, also against aggro-control like Tempo Thresh) which is a way to improve Zoo matchup. He kind of forget about controls, reason for which he goes heavy anti-control in his sideboard, and consider the only deck we can't rush is Storm, thus siding mindbreak trap in.
This is a nice way of building the deck: Focus on a point, and don't leave it even for a moment; master of something, not a jack of all trades. He increases the aggro matchup by making a short but stable manabase, running 24 creature, which means he will try to have 3~5 by turn 3 (like most of us do), and 21 pumps, which means he will most likely have a turn 3~4 clock for the final blow. Even if he can't protect himself from control, he'll do better postboard with at least +6 cards most of the time.
The "rise" of reanimator may mean we can't rush reanimator either, and need another sideboard option against it, making his sideboard choices less effective.
He goes straight against Stax and Top SB, but I'd go different: Go krosan grips istead of Seeds, increasing Enchantress and Counterbalance matchs. Then, reduce the count of a single creature or pump maindeck and add the forest needed for krosan. I'd get Rushwood legate out (since now you side both krosan and shusher against it), reduce the count of shusher - or even mindbreak trap - to 3, and go +4 Faerie Macabre. That will give the deck sideboard options agaist a lot of decks, and also important: Side against Shackles and Threads, and E.E./Keg possibly. And you still side 7~8 effective cards against Stax and CB+Top.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Replying to myself just because it's different content from the previous post:
Have you guys checked out the new pump from Eldrazi? http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...9&d=1268625905
I know it's not +4/+4 like krosa, but it's free +2/+2 next turn, which fixes mana to berserk and increases dmg delt before the zerk.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Yeah, I was wondering when anyone was gonna talk about it, hehe.
I'm really liking it, it is indeed "only" +2/+2, but we should really consider it, and give it a try, the question is, over what ??
It'll have to be Krosa, and then is the change worthy? Time will tell. I'm gonna proxy it and see how it goes.
Re: [Deck] Berserk Stompy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NihilObstat
Yeah, I was wondering when anyone was gonna talk about it, hehe.
I'm really liking it, it is indeed "only" +2/+2, but we should really consider it, and give it a try, the question is, over what ??
It'll have to be Krosa, and then is the change worthy? Time will tell. I'm gonna proxy it and see how it goes.
I wouldn't trade Might of Old Krosa for it, at least not while I had Seal or Vastwood yet. Krosa is the faster pump for :g: we have, and the best when Berserking, unless maybe for Invigorate that is a free +5 dmg during zerk and can pump kavu...
