Another reason Emrakul is better is because he does not require off color mana which I have seen be relevant on a few occasions.
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Another reason Emrakul is better is because he does not require off color mana which I have seen be relevant on a few occasions.
Quick tourney report.
I played the list I previously posted with the following changes:
-1 Masked Admirers
-1 Fauna Shaman (couldn't get in time)
+1 Sylvan Messenger
+1 Llanowar/Fyndhorn Elf
In testing, Sylvan Messenger was a better card all around, and my most frequent card to tutor for both with Pact and Survival when I am short on cards in hand or to start the combo. Masked Admirers I've found to be useful against removal heavy or blue control decks (you build up your resources by paying a GG tax on every creature cast). However, in normal play, it lacked what is required of it's casting cost: advantage.
Also note, since I was in a rush I left my dual lands at home, and hence played the following land situation:
9 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
This came up to biting me in some matchups where I needed to get both green mana and a Mountain to enable haste. My sideboarding reflected this weakness and I often boarded out Mountain and Anger.
Round 1: Solidarity (2-1)
Game 1: I recognize the build immediately and think I am safe since I have Emrakul. I get greedy and try to cast him, and get decked with 4 extra turns to take.
Game 2: Thorns of Amethyst early while he's stuck on 1 land.
Game 3: Thorns again, backed by beatdown.
Round 2: Aggro Loam (0-2)
Game 1: I apply pressure early, get him down to a low life. DD resets the board. I recover with one Forest, but his Barbarian Ring takes out my one dude per turn. Tarmogoyf finishes up while I'm stuck on 1 land.
Game 2: He makes a Chalice@1 on turn 2, and I draw the Zealot to use. I may have been able to continue applying pressure and not pop the Zealot same turn to cast a 2nd Nettle Sentinel. I lose to DD while he's at 2 life.
Round 3: Affinity (2-0)
Game 1: Viridian Shaman shows up and takes out his team.
Game 2: Emrakul shows up turn 4 and takes out his battlefield.
Round 4: TES (0-2)
Game 1: Glimpse gets Duress'd on his Turn 1. He Silences me on my turn 3 in response to Summoner's Pact (for Sylvan Messenger). He makes 10 Goblin tokens, while I make the Messenger. I get 1 creature, and pass it back. I go down to 2 life from attacks, and he drops the full combo (LED and Infernal Tutor into "shenanigans"). He feels smug from his disgustingly perfect hand.
Game 2: I have a first turn Survival with ESG. He Duress's my Glimpse again. I fail to draw a land and pass. He goes off.
Top of the deck is Thorns of Amethyst, hiding from usefulness.
Round 5: Lands with black (2-0)
Game 1: I make Fyndhorn Elf. He makes Tabernacle. I make Priest of Titania, followed by lots of plays, ending with Emrakul.
Game 2: I make turn 3 Terastodon to take out 3 of his lands, then cast Emrakul next turn.
Round 6: New Horizons (2-0)
Game 1: I bait for his counters with some elves. He makes an attacker or two and gets down to zero cards in hand. I go all in and win with Emrakul. (Wirewood Symbiote was huge here)
Game 2: Repeat of game 1, but I bait his Stifles with Relic of Progenitus. I use the Emrakul trick to bring back a fallen Symbiote and go off.
Ended up 4-2 at 14th place due to very bad tiebreakers.
Follow up notes: Glimpse is still ridiculous in this deck. It is very powerful and it's very easy to chain cast your deck with it. Survival was difficult to use in situations that I lacked land drops. Wood Elves is decent in here, but it's only useful when you've already got 3 mana. A solution that costs 1 or 2 mana might be needed. At 2 mana there is Sylvan Ranger. Is there an option at 1 mana?
There was not one time that I wished I had Masked Admirers instead of Sylvan Messenger.
Top 8 was the following: Aggro Loam, Merfolk, Merfolk, New Horizon, Eva Green Vamps, Zoo, some Jace deck (could have been CBtop), and possibly another New Horizons.
It would be interesting to cut the land count even lower, but at the cost of destroying your mulligans. 13 land with Fetches might work, but I feel more safe with 14. I do not at all advise playing Gaea's Cradle. It strictly is a Win More card.
Another tourney report. 19 people for 4 duals. Bad prize support means 1st/2nd only get prizes.
Playing a radical change in the sideboard to address the combo-heavy metagame.
Maindeck
// Elves
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Priest of Titania
3 Llanowar Elves
3 Quirion Ranger
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Elvish Archdruid
// Utility
3 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Anger
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Sylvan Messenger/Regal Force
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eternal Witness
// Engines
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Survival of the Fittest
2 Summoner's Pact
// Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest
1 Svannah
1 Taiga
// Sideboard
4 Thorns of Amethyst
4 Krosan Grip
2 Silence
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Vexing Shusher
Round 1: Tony A. with UWr Painter Stone (no recruiters) (2-0)
I peek during pre-match that he's got Grindstone.
Game 1: Keep a delicious hand with 2 land, 2 Nettles, Hertiage Druid and Glimpse. Draw into Wirewood. Combo off turn 2. He stops me midway to scoop.
Game 2: He gets turn 2 Servant, turn 3 Grindstone, turn 4 mill. I show him Emrakul and he scoops.
Emrakul win count: 1
Round 2: Aya T. with NO Elves (2-0)
Game 1: She plays elves. I play Priest of Titania. Turn 3 hasty Emrakul.
Game 2: She plays elves. I play Priest of Titania. Turn 3 Emrakul.
Emrakul win count: 3
Round 3: John H. with UGrw CB/Top (0-2)
We're good friends so it's not much of a pressure matchup. More like playtesting.
Game 1: Opening hand: Forest, Forest, Heath, Heath, Savannah, Forest, Foothills. *shrug* Mull to a non-stellar hand and lose to turn 1/2 CB/top.
Game 2: Keep a 2 lander and face turn 1 Grim Lavamancer. This is baddddddd. His SB tech is spot on. I lose a slow game without a chance.
Round 4: Kyle D. with White Stax (1-2)
Game 1: Start with Nettle Sentinel. Apply pressure for about 4 turns. In the meantime he casts Ghostly Prison and Chalice @ 1. I land Survival with 4 lands and grab Elvish Archdruid so I'm not dead to Armageddon. Untap and cast Viridian Shaman, then go off with Glimpse. Finish off with Emrakul attacking.
Game 2: I keep a double Priest of Titania hand. He starts off with Chalice @ 1. I fail to find a Grip in time and only get to cast my five 1cc cards. He casts Trinisphere to slow me down. Finally find a Grip but by now he's got two Chalice @ 1. He plays Armageddon to knock out my lands, then plays Smokestack. I dont' draw Grip in time to stem the bleeding and lose to lack of permanents. Sylvan Messenger whiffs on elves in this game.
Game 3: I keep a one lander with 2 mana elves. I cast Llanowar Elf turn 1. He plays Mox Diamond + Land. I cast Priest of Titania turn 2. He casts Mox Diamond + Land + Linvala. I can't cast anything. He plays Magus of the Tabernacle turn 3 and I scoop it up.
Emrakul win count: 4.
Round 5: Todd with Ally/Soldier WW (2-0)
Game 1: He mulls to 5, then StP's two elves. I attack with Emrakul on turn 4.
Game 2: He plays some Allies and starts to whittle my lifetotal. I cast elves and win with Emrakul.
Emrakul win count: 6.
At this point I'm 3-2 in a field of 17 players. I get 9th place due to tiebreakers.
Thoughts:
Counterbalance is still a pain to beat. Leyline of Lifeforce is getting a serious consideration again. It also prevents Chalice from beating me.
Good matchups are still decks that can't disrupt you resolving Elves.
Even matchups are decks that you require specific cards (Grip, Survival, land) in order to win out.
Bad matchups are decks that can endlessly counter 1cc elves, then follow up with sweepers.
I may take a break from elves to focus on other Survival decks. There might be some new elves in the next set that would help out specific matchups, or improve the strength of the tribe as a whole.
Adam Ramsay came in 9th at the SCG legacy open in Denver with the following list:
1 Acidic Slime
4 Birchlore Rangers
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Quirion Elves
2 Regal Force
1 Viridian Zealot
4 Wirewood Symbiote
Instants
4 Summoner's Pact
Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
1 Grapeshot
1 Recoup
Basic Lands
11 Forest
Lands
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
Legendary Lands
1 Gaea's Cradle
Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Imperious Perfect
1 Joraga Warcaller
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Leyline of Lifeforce
2 Naturalize
2 Gleeful Sabotage
I do like the maindeck, I have always been a fan the versions running lots of elves. I have tried NO+prog versions etc, and I still play those, but I prefer this for some reason. And the survival engine is just too expensive for me, I did not test with that anyway.
Grapeshot + recoup is something that I find very interesting. I always used Eternal Witness, but this seems even better! Quirrion Elves is something I never used, but I can see why its there.
The sideboard is something I strugle with, but there choices are obvious, just the numbers dont seem correct to me.
Thoughts?
~maarten
Why would anyone run less than 4 of any Leyline?
I've been looking into this deck. It seems like it has a lot of strengths. Merfolk seems like a joke. You should be goldfishing faster than Goblins and Zoo despite whatever removal they may have. I guess the issues are Counterbalance and other combo decks?
A strength seems to be that decks packing hate against you are for storm, which is completely different from this deck. Also, the aggro plan seems perfectly strong if they overboard on hate.
Can't be Mindbreak Trapped.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodahero
Emrakul can indeed be exiled using Mindbreak Trap; however the extra turn still resolves normally. Even still, the amount of elves in play should be enough to finish the job.
Has anybody looked at Gaea's Herald? I'm playing Food Chain Elves and running 3x in my board and it's working great for me. Another card I don't really see in the SBs is Steely Resolve. I've found the combonation of both of these to be a real pain for Counterbalance without Firespout to deal with. Counterbalance with Firespout is still a real pain in the ass though.Quote:
2 Leyline of Lifeforce
I especially like Gaea's Herald although. it can be countered right? The problem with Steely Resolve is I don't know how to find it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brushwagg
Gaea's Herald can be countered... Compare with Vexing Shusher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I have once managed to play vexing Shusher and combo off turn 2 before against CBtop. However this is not the normal.
Gaea's Herald is more synergistic, but it's almost never going to resolve whereas vexing Shusher will always.
I think Leyline of Lifeforce would be the best, and just mulligan to get it. At the earliest it will take them until turn 3 to destroy it with Krosan Grip if you're playing Survival. They won't anticipate it if you run straight up Glimpse combo.
Natural Order/Progenitus is still the best way to board against CBtop that doesn't run black.
to ruckus:
Hey, I noticed that on your second last tournament report, you posted this:
Although on your list before that, you never really had Fauna Shaman. I also noticed that on your post after that, Fauna Shaman was not included. Is it because you still do not have access to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Would you still try to utilize Fauna Shaman?
Also, any changes to your list as of now?
I haven't touched my elves deck in a while. I would love to play with them again.
Thanks for the help ruckus!
I tested Fauna shaman a bit as a 1-of. I found that the 4th Survival is always better than it. With the hybrid engines, I still prefer 3 Survivals, since it is the slower card.
So, would you say that this list that you're rocking with would be the most optimal of your lists?Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
I think priests are a bad idea in this build. I used to have them, but the Archdruids lord ability is well worth the extra mana, and having both is overkill. As many one drops as you can manage is what makes this deck work.
I really started to like Gaea's Cradle along with one crop rotation. You don't have it - nothing bad, you have it - good for you. But maybe in the builds without NO it might not be needed, but since I use them, cradle actually gives some serious mana boost.
For those running a white splash, consider Scapegoat. It has 2 main functions: save your team from mass removal, and combo with Glimpse of Nature to ensure a win, provided you have the mana to replay all your dudes and draw more cards. It will also randomly save lords from spot removal and combo with Sylvan Messanger(s). Thoughts?
it's one of those cards that looks good but it just won't simply work..Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
I disagree. Once you start combing off, you rarely need your lands anyway because you have so much mana, with the exception of Gaea's Cradle of course. Mid spell chain Scapegoat allows you to replay all your small dudes, namely Quirion's Rangers that allow you to untap your Priest of Titania and Elvish Archdruid's. It also allows you to draw 4 cards again from Sylvan Messanger. It also saves Shusher's post-board from spot removal. Honestly it has synergy with the entire deck and I doubt it will ever be a dead card, especially if you are trying to avoid mass removal like Deed. Whats the argument against it, because I'm not really sold on 'it simply won't work'. I've played this card in a Kobold Glimpse list and it was phenomenal.
On a similar note, I do like the idea of Crop Rotation. It allows you to chain your Gaea's Cradle's together, sacrificing one to find another. Does anyone play it?