New cards from M11

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No, but it's sort of legendary because it costs to fog a single creature, which means you'd need a fuckton of mana to have more than one active at once.

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Right, but it's not actually Legendary, so I can put multiples in play and still have them tap for mana. Honestly, that's all Mishra's Factory has been doing for me lately anyway, is just tapping for mana. I'm rarely wanting to go beatdown with them and I'm rarely getting use out of them as a blocker. Looking at it that way, running excess Mystifying Maze isn't going to be any different.

Maybe I'd go to a 2/1 split of Maze and Kor Haven and run an extra Tundra or something, I dunno. I need to playtest it. The point I was trying to make was that multiples aren't useless because they still tap for mana.

Between Mystifying Maze and Brittle Effigy M11 now has 8 colorless ways for decks to deal with Iona. Wonder if that was on purpose and if there are any more coming?

Also spoiled is a seven mana wildfire that hits lands and creatures for 5 instead of 4. No idea if that + monolith is enough to make wildfire playable, but it is available now.

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Also spoiled is a seven mana wildfire that hits lands and creatures for 5 instead of 4. No idea if that + monolith is enough to make wildfire playable, but it is available now.

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So... many...good...cards...in...one...set....ahhhh...

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Originally Posted by cseraph

Activating two is not the legendary issue. Being able to play out several without screwing yourself is the issue.

Think it is probably a fringe card in format but should see definite t2 play.

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Yes, but:

1) A deck built to use Kor Haven to fog creatures will have both a lower number of Kor Havens (1-2), and some way to find them (1-2 Tolaria West, perhaps), as well as more colored sources of mana. Having more colored mana is actually useful as it helps prevent decks with Wasteland from keeping you off specific colors.

2) The second Maze is basically a blank because, in most cases, you're just tapping it to pay for the activation of the first Maze. That makes it worse than having something like a dual or a basic, which are much better at helping to pay for your spells (and in the case of the basic, are also immune to Wasteland). Furthermore, if your deck has low colored mana requirements, there are many lands that have both useful effects and tap for colorless - see: Wasteland, Academy Ruins, Dust Bowl, Mishra's Factory, etc. Factory and Crucible do almost as good a job at blanking creatures as this land does, but Factory also beats down and Crucible has other applications (and basically the only flying creatures that see lots of play are tokens or Vendillion Clique, and you don't want to use this land on Clique).

3) Playing out several of these Mazes implies a Maze-heavy draw, which means you'll probably be screwed for colors in any deck that's not some sort of Monolith/"big mana" shell.

This card might be fine as a 1-2-of in decks that find manaless Maze of Ith intolerable, but going past that is asking for serious diminishing returns, especially if you're in a blue/white/x shell with Brainstorm, Jace, and maybe Top.

EDIT: When I said the card was "sort of legendary," I meant "like most legendary cards, you're not really keen on seeing more than one."

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Originally Posted by whienot

Would Belcher play Orim's Chant if it were green?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1278302906

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I just shit myself. PSI is going to make beautiful, beautiful love to this card. It already has plenty of access to green mana, often extra green mana that it can't use for anything else actually. A green chant is exactly what it needs to be an amazing deck. Belcher might not play it because they need to use so many resources to go off (usually 5-7 cards), but SI needs only 3 and sometimes 4 or 5. WoTC fucked up.
And I'm like a pig in shit right now!!! WOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The nice thing about Autumn Veil is that it's actually a counter counterspell. You cast your spell. They counter it. You reply with Veil. Your now uncounterable spell resolves, effectively countering the counterspell.

Also, if you're in green and combo, why not just run Xantid Swarm? Fragility issues?

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Originally Posted by whienot

Would Belcher play Orim's Chant if it were green?

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1278302906

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It's unfortunate that CounterTop gets around that ability.

Oh well, can't complain.

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EDIT: When I said the card was "sort of legendary," I meant "like most legendary cards, you're not really keen on seeing more than one."

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I understand what you are getting at. From a general deckbuilding perspective, you are completely right.

My perspective was specific to my control deck, which is running 4 Mishra's Factories that have been rarely doing anything other than tapping for mana. Since the new Maze looked like it would be more relevant for me than Mishra's Factory, that's why I initially thought a direct swap would be in order. However, Kor Haven is awesome tech that I forgot about, so now I can do an X/1 split of Maze/Haven. Whether the split be 3/1, 2/1, or 1/1 is something I'd rather hammer out in actual testing.

PS: Thanks for reminding me about Kor Haven.

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Originally Posted by morgan_coke

The nice thing about Autumn Veil is that it's actually a counter counterspell. You cast your spell. They counter it. You reply with Veil. Your now uncounterable spell resolves, effectively countering the counterspell.

Also, if you're in green and combo, why not just run Xantid Swarm? Fragility issues?

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Well its great in addition to Swarm. x8 protection post-board is pretty amazing. Can't wait to pick up a playset.

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Originally Posted by Hanni

I understand what you are getting at. From a general deckbuilding perspective, you are completely right.

My perspective was specific to my control deck, which is running 4 Mishra's Factories that have been rarely doing anything other than tapping for mana. Since the new Maze looked like it would be more relevant for me than Mishra's Factory, that's why I initially thought a direct swap would be in order. However, Kor Haven is awesome tech that I forgot about, so now I can do an X/1 split of Maze/Haven. Whether the split be 3/1, 2/1, or 1/1 is something I'd rather hammer out in actual testing.

PS: Thanks for reminding me about Kor Haven.

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Then go with a 1/1/2 or 1/2/1 split of Haven, Maze and Mishra/Whateveryoulike

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Originally Posted by whienot

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...5&d=1278302906

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They used phrase "or black spells" because they printed green hate vs green enemy colors or they will print black counterspell ? I don't think they care much about Dash Hopes or Withering Boon.

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Originally Posted by Deviruchi

They used phrase "or black spells" because they printed green hate vs green enemy colors or they will print black counterspell ? I don't think they care much about Dash Hopes or Withering Boon.

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I doubt it. I think it was to keep the whole card balanced and the second part of the effect is very relevant for black's slice of the color pie.

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Originally Posted by dschalter

http://media.wizards.com/images/magi.../mm98_jace.jpg

Jace 1.0 confirmed.

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Confirmed where?
Also, on the whole "go red or go home" thing, the titans seem like they were designed to balance out Jace. I'm working on a Wildfire deck right now. I want to run 4 Death Titan but I can't, because Jace. So I'm stuck with 3 Inferno, 2 Primeval. Oh, and 4 Mitotic Slime. Feels good, man.

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Originally Posted by Pastorofmuppets

Confirmed where?
Also, on the whole "go red or go home" thing, the titans seem like they were designed to balance out Jace. I'm working on a Wildfire deck right now. I want to run 4 Death Titan but I can't, because Jace. So I'm stuck with 3 Inferno, 2 Primeval. Oh, and 4 Mitotic Slime. Feels good, man.

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Confirmed in the image you quoted: look under the artist line...

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Originally Posted by 3eowulf

Confirmed in the image you quoted: look under the artist line...

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This comment got me thinking, but after looking at a few images, I realised the centering and white letters in the copyrightline were different then the other M11 blue cards, but some research thought me M10 had the same difference between planeswalkers and "normal" cards.

At first I thought wizards was trying to fool us with posting a M10 or Lorwyin Jace behind the 2 other cards, but I noticed the other 4 colors had the same differences.

Seeing the Jace in the pic has the © 1993-2010 copyright notice at the bottom makes be believe we can consider Jace 1.0 to be confirmed for M11.

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Originally Posted by Deviruchi

They used phrase "or black spells" because they printed green hate vs green enemy colors or they will print black counterspell ? I don't think they care much about Dash Hopes or Withering Boon.

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They'Re reprinting Deathgrip. :tongue:

A Leyline that acts like Ivory Mask?

I was pretty pissed when they reprinted Void, but this doesn't help matters.

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Originally Posted by TheRock

A Leyline that acts like Ivory Mask?

I was pretty pissed when they reprinted Void, but this doesn't help matters.

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Looks like someone at WOTC headquarters had their panties in a bunch and wanted to throw combo yet another roadblock.

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Originally Posted by Morbid-

Looks like someone at WOTC headquarters had their panties in a bunch and wanted to throw combo yet another roadblock.

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lol sweet anti-combo tech on turn 0 for all colors.

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Originally Posted by markbris

lol sweet anti-combo tech on turn 0 for all colors.

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It also makes discard and burn worse. This Leyline is a damn good sideboard card.