[Deck] Aluren

Speaking of funky Conflux cards that seem good in aluren:

Sedraxis Alchemist 2b
Creature - Zombie Wizard Common
When Sedraxis Alchemist comes into play, if you control a blue permanent, you may return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand.
2/2

This other member of the Strix sub-cycle seems great. He combos off as well as hitting halos, confinements, trinisphere, and meddling mage/cannonist.

This deck is certainly getting a lot of interesting toys. It will be interesting to see the builds in Chicago.

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Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely

Parasitic Strix is interesting because, like Spike Feeder, it can be used both to gain infinite life and to kill the opponent. This alone sets it apart from suboptimal cards like Ghitu Slinger and Essence Warden.

However, I'm not sure that Strix is better than Feeder. The latter seems like a much better card to draw before Aluren resolves, and you don't have to protect it from Swords to Plowshares (since it can always kill itself).

It's also worth mentioning that Strix' trigger targets, so a Runed Halo or Solitary Confinement stops it. With Spike Feeder, these cards are largely irrelevant (Halo almost completely so) once Aluren lands, because you can gain life, draw your deck, and remove them at your leisure. However, with Strix, an untargetable opponent will prevent you from gaining life, which limits your ability to dig for (and protect) your removal for the enchantments.


There are some important potential benefits to running Parasitic Strix, though. The obvious one is that Aluren, Cavern Harpy, and Strix combine to win immediately, without needing any Raven Familiars, Man-o-Wars, or Walls of Roots. Thus, you can occasionally win games by just drawing that combination of cards, when drawing Spike Feeder instead might do nothing.

The other big advantage to Strix is that Wall of Roots and Man-o-War don't have to be in the deck at all. I'm not saying that cutting either of them is necessarily correct, but I have tested builds of the deck with only a single copy of Wall, and that single copy was only there because it had to be for Spike Feeder to work.

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This is not a completely correct statement. There are only three decks in this format that can beat Aluren-Harpy-Warden and this is the main reason why I feel that going to Strix simply isn't worth it unless you are willing to devote extra slots to it. Warden was never the suboptimal card to Feeder because it never required you to play Man-O'-War or Wall of Roots (and Feeder doesn't require Wall either). However, to be completely fair, I always used Eternal Witness and I wouldn't mind cutting it.

I do believe that removing somewhat redundant creatures is a REALLY important advantage though. It's not like we need to be bouncing Meddling Mages all over the place like we did years ago. There is one other advantage to running two life-gaining cards in a non-Recruiter Aluren build - you can get out of tight spots against aggro decks or fast clocks a whole lot more (whether they pitch or have other effects or not). This may make any argument against Strix moot.

Flying in an Aluren mirror does help though - I don't think Warden is going to do that much there. :smile:

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Pity Sadin didn't get that memo when he build his GP-winning deck. But I concede, it wasn't built around a 4cc enchantment, it was build around a 7cc creature, clearly a much more reasonable proposition

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Did you honestly just compare aluren to hulk-flash? This is why i hate people...

On a more productive note, i would advocate running at least 1 sedraxis in the main, in place of a man-o-war. Its ability to bounce halo, counterbalance, needle, confinement, deed, or your own aluren is very relavent. It is also functionaly the same as man-o-war mid combo. In general, man-o-war is better, but there are certainly times you want sedraxis.

After some thought, strix seems better than feeder. Although feeder is better when drawn alone, the extra 2 life it gives you is irrelavent 99% of the time. And if you have the presence of mind to not play strix when your opponent has white, the StP problem is also irrelavent. The ability to randomly win off harpy + strix is tempting. Perhaps running 2 strix would be best. That way you dont worry about StP, and your chances of random wins would double. Just some thoughts.

Has anyone actually been able to put up good numbers with this deck? In my experience: if countertop lands you will loose, decks actively attacking mana bases (loam, TA, tempo thresh) just overwhelm you, and combo randomly beats you a little too much. Has this been everyone else's experience? Can this deck expect to compete in a competative meta? In my eyes, it can't.

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Originally Posted by honz

Has anyone actually been able to put up good numbers with this deck? In my experience: if countertop lands you will loose, decks actively attacking mana bases (loam, TA, tempo thresh) just overwhelm you, and combo randomly beats you a little too much. Has this been everyone else's experience? Can this deck expect to compete in a competative meta? In my eyes, it can't.

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You've got tools to fight all of those matches. One of the main reasons this deck doesn't have better exposure is that the price of Imperial Recruiters significantly hampers it's viability. No one wants to spend $600 on a playset you can use in only one deck. The mana disruption is a valid point, but as there doesn't seem to be a consensus list, there seems to be plenty of room for innovation on that. The decreasing of slots with these new creatures makes chrome mox look better and better.

Given the fact that certain pros already have Recruiters or have better sources for such cards than you average joe, expect this to see considerably more play in Chicago than current tourniment t8's suggest.


I don't really see how a single swords to plowshares does anything to stop you from going off. Cast a Imp Recruiter, fetch an Imp Recruiter, etc, fetch 2x dream thief, fetch harpy, fetch Strix, play strix with harpy gating on the stack, kill them. I guess this doesn't work if you're at 1 life, but otherwise you can just bounce the harpy and replay it if they ever target the strix with swords. You might still want to run an eternal witness, but at least now you don't have too.

Parasitic Strix looks like Ghitu Slinger to me, it's just on-color and does nothing useful on its own without Aluren. I don't run Slinger and I don't expect to run Strix anytime soon.

About Sedraxis Alchemist, I'll give it a try when Wizards change the rules and lands become the same colors as mana they produce. Until then I think it's useless without Painter's Servant, and I personally don't plan on running either.

I've been testing the non-Recruiter build while trying to strengthen its control role. It looks a little like The Rock now:

4 Polluted Delta
3 Windswept Heath
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Volrath's Stronghold
6 Forest
3 Island
1 Swamp

2 Cavern Harpy
4 Raven Familiar
3 Man-o'-War
1 Spike Feeder
2 Eternal Witness
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Wall of Roots
4 Wall of Blossoms

4 Aluren
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Intuition
2 Chain of Vapor

- Volrath's Stronghold has sinergy with Eternal Witness, Raven Familiar and Wall of Blossoms, although any other creature is equally useful. It helps me a lot if I have to get to late game.

- Sensei's Divining Top is better than Brainstorm in this deck. Apart from the cantrip creatures we need some sort of constant card filtering since we don't get real card advantage. It can also help while comboing.

- I run 10 basics against Wasteland, so Threshold shouldn't be that much of a concern. Devastating Dreams and Sinkhole are still problematic, though. Wall of Roots may partially solve those problems if it manages to resolve and isn't killed too soon.

Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by honz

combo randomly beats you a little too much

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We need to define "combo". Depending on which decks we talk about we could do something.

This new creature is, IMHO, better than Feeder, since you no longer need to create the 500/500 critter army. You simply go off and win on the very same turn.

StP is not a problem!!! With one StP the combo cannot be stopped at any time. Wobbles The Goose has explained it (maybe a little too fast), but he's right!!

I'll take out Feeder and try this new guy. And Maybe I'll take out goyfs, since I do no longer need an army to win, and I'll deck in some Pernicious Deeds (georgjorge proposed this idea).

About the other new guy, the one who bounces permanents, it's nice too, but more conditional than a stern proctor, which I use because is fetchable to FoW, and not too difficult to hardcast.

To be honest, I haven't played the deck for a couple of months, if anyone is testing it, please share experience about most problematic cards (Counterbalance hurts, sure), games against ANT or TES, how do you find the matchup against fast decks...
Thanks!

I was wonding why no one plays Living Wish any more? This card gets around Extripate and can get back cards that have been StP. I used to play a tool box board and a one of Volrath's Strong hold in the board as well.

By no means am I saying its must by any means, just asking why.

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Originally Posted by exaltedgod

I was wonding why no one plays Living Wish any more? This card gets around Extripate and can get back cards that have been StP. I used to play a tool box board and a one of Volrath's Strong hold in the board as well.

By no means am I saying its must by any means, just asking why.

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I still play Living Wish, but you cannot recover an extirpated Aluren :(
Anyway, wishes for me serve as Recruiter #4, #5 and #6, as well as some SB options.

Extirpate is a big pain, so one must consider a plan B, such as goyfs...
I've been thinking of including a land in the SB. But never made up my mind if it had to be a land so as to produce mana or some special tool.

If you fear extirpate, why not use Ground Seal or Planar Void? Sure, you still can't get the Aluren back, but at least you still have 3x in your library. Sounds like a decent plan since people mentioned not needing EW. If you ran E. Witness (I would never drop E. Witness from the 75, but if you did...), you could board it out when you brought these in and it would still run smoothly.

Pce,

--DC

During a short time, I used to use Research/Development in the SB.
But I found that goyfs were another path to victory.
I haven't played the deck for months, so no idea how te meta would treat it...
That's why any comments or reports are welcome!

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

During a short time, I used to use Research/Development in the SB.
But I found that goyfs were another path to victory.
I haven't played the deck for months, so no idea how te meta would treat it...
That's why any comments or reports are welcome!

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I like Gofy just like any other person but I dont think that its really needed in the deck. Its a combo deck and should be left as such. I am not saying that it shouldnt have a back up. I used to play the version that won Worlds against Cephaliod Life. The thing is with the meta here in NY Thresh and control is just about the only deck that is played. (Again not say its the ONLY deck out there). I have tried to move towards a more protective deck but moves a lot slower than what it used too. A turn three win happened more often then not but by turn three: FoW, Krosan Grip, Extripate, Daze, and Spell Snare makes this deck scoop.

R&D is a tech that I never thought about..... hmmmm I might have to think abut that.

Edit: Oh... I forgot Canonist too.

Hi guys, i am about to try my first aluren deck for the next days but cause of some money problems i have to try it with an U/G build, first i want to post my idea of a Decklist then discuss some questions, so..

Creatures:

3 Cavern Harpy
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Man-O-War
1 Eternal Witness
1 Spike Feeder
1 Essence Warden
4 Raven Familiar
4 Birds of Paradise (i know walls are even better but i need the mana acceleration)
1 Ghitu Fireslinger
1 Mesmeric fiend

Spells:

4 Force of Will
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Aluren

Lands:

4 Gemstone Mine
3 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept heath
4 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
2 Island
5 Forest

Sideboard:

4 Meddling Mage
3 Mesmeric Fiend
3 City of Solitude
1 Star Proctor
4 Propaganda

At least i dont even have therapies or intuitions so i am not sure to give black a try at all.

When i was reading some posts in this thread i got some pretty hard minds on following threats by the opponent:

Krosan Grip
Extirpate
Trinisphere <- it kills this Deck or am i wrong?

-For the Sideboarding i had the idea (at least it was not my own but i liked it very much) to put some ground seals to the Sideboard against the extirpate or even against the hardly often played loam decks.

-Also i was thinking about Xantid Swarm and/or City of Solitude against the Counter Control Matchup like Landstill, Counter top anything, Muc etc. by just going off in the own turns.
=> It works very good against the Split Second cards aslong your able to drift into the combo the same time by putting the Aluren into play.

-I liked the Idea of splashing white for the Meddling Mages as they can shut down other combo decks, or again save from Extirpate or Krosan grip even Trinisphere aslong its not in the game at all.

-How good are blockers against Aggro matchups like Dredge, Affinity, Goblins or the other kinds of Aggro-Decks really? i think Aluren beeing able to generate 3 Mana on turn 2 (maybe on a build with tinder wall, wild cantor or birds) it will be able just to drop a Propaganda which nearly stops most of those Decks.

I'd like to know how you guys think about, but dont get to angry with me by building a Aluren without the typical black part (i will play therapies as soon as possible) and without the intuitions. I think it still should be able :rolleyes:

I suggest, if it's possible for you, to add black as soon as you can.
Cabal Therapy will help you in many scenarios, for instance, naming Krosan Grip just before you cast your Aluren, or removing other threats/counters.

Extirpate is a pain, but you can go aggro style if really needed. Ground Seal will stop their Extirpates, but I'm afraid we cannot stop Loam recursion with it.

Trinisphere stops your combo, it really wrecks this deck, that's the reason I've always wanted to play Force of Will. You cannot simply lose to their: Mana, Mox, Trinisphere, go...

Anyway have a look at Toad's list and see how the Recruiterless version has evolved, there are many great players using those lists who can help you more.

Ground Seal works against Life from the Loam because it targets the lands. It also works against Dredge (Dread Return). The question is if it's really necessary. You don't lose to extirpated Alurens, even without Research / Development.

Trinisphere is nasty, but you can count on Chain of Vapor, Force of Will and/or Pernicious Deed. Also Krosan Grip post-board.

Propaganda looks nice, but against aggro Walls are more apropiate since they aren't useless with Aluren in play. That's why Wall of Blossoms is better than Coiling Oracle and Wall of Roots is better than Birds of Paradise. Tarmogoyf usually counts as a Wall, too.

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Originally Posted by Nonex

Ground Seal works against Life from the Loam because it targets the lands.

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That's right! (I messed up with it).

The problem we have with Trinisphere, is that we must survive the push of a D.Stompy or Armageddons from a White Stax. Moreover our FoW cost 3, so the sphere must be bounced / destroyed at all costs.

Has anyone good experience with K.Grips post-boards? How does it work dealing with Counterbalances and spheres?

Trinisphere doesn't have much to say. Against Counterbalance there are two ways: play another annoying spell first to ensure the top card has CMC different than 3, then Krosan Grip (which is a bad 1x2 if the first spell is countered); or wait until the opponent's upkeep when he/she is about to draw, then Krosan Grip still in the upkeep. Since we have so many CMC 3 spells the opponent shouldn't want to draw the CMC 3 card, so he/she should leave another card on the top before the draw step.

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Originally Posted by Nonex

Trinisphere is nasty, but you can count on Chain of Vapor, Force of Will and/or Pernicious Deed. Also Krosan Grip post-board.

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I might be missing something here but I dont think that Trinisphere has an affect on creature spells played by Aluren.

Trinispere
http://beta.gatherer.wizards.com/Pag...iverseid=43545

Aluren
http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/Card....aspx?&id=4747

The rulings on Aluren doesnt state that it reduces the cost. It even states that when the card is played it still has its CMC while on the stack. So if we follow the rulings right... Play any spell 3 or less via Aluren, Trinisphere applies it affects due to it being less than three if it is, however three is still the magic number for Aluren so you may choose not to pay anything.


If I am wrong, I would hope someone would explain the correct rulings for me. lol On another note. I think that black really isnt all thats needed. The only real plus is Cabal Therapy.... maybe Deed but I found Deed to me more harmful then helpful and with Stifle being in almost every deck it hold nothing more than a burnt spell. I really think that the GU is more the way to go. It holds more of the control aspects compared to needing to lose a creature for a mishit Therapy.

trinisphere does affect aluren. Aluren says "Any player may play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost", and trinisphere states "each spell that would cost less than three mana to play costs three mana to play." Since you are still playing the cards, and they are costing less than 3 mana, trinisphere makes them cost 3.

Cabal therapy, deed, extirpate/leyline, and hard casting harpy are all important elements to this deck. Deed might get stifled, but thats 1 less stifle for dreadnaught, fetches, raven, recruiter, witness...etc. Deed also comes in against decks w/o stifle, like zoo and stax.

Regardless, i haven't been able to consistantly win much of anything with this deck anymore. Conflux has done nothing to change that.

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Originally Posted by honz

trinisphere does affect aluren. Aluren says "Any player may play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost", and trinisphere states "each spell that would cost less than three mana to play costs three mana to play." Since you are still playing the cards, and they are costing less than 3 mana, trinisphere makes them cost 3.

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That doesnt reduce nor imply that the cost is now zero. Its just saying that the spell can be played without paying for it compared to having the cost reduced or replaced to zero. These are two different things.
In my entire time of playing this deck I have never played: Leyline of the Void in the sideboard nor main decked, Extirpate, and I NEVER hard casted a Harpy in my 4 years of playing Aluren... not once. lol

There are a lot of things this deck can do with a more multi-colored base but I think it can hold more of its own with more of the control and digging aspect to it which is needed more than saying "Let me see your hand in hopes I named something right." or "Hey here is another enchantment that either you do something about or you dont play anything... oh you Stifled, Trick Bind-ed, or K-Gripped, or even better... countered it... dam." I would rather put something in that spot that solidifies it going through and making dam sure that I get Aluren on board and I win that turn. I am sorry but black is really not needed if your not playing the Recruiter version.

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Originally Posted by exaltedgod

That doesnt reduce nor imply that the cost is now zero. Its just saying that the spell can be played without paying for it compared to having the cost reduced or replaced to zero. These are two different things.

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Yes, but Trinisphere only cares about how much mana was paid when playing a spell. If that cost is < 3, then it bumps hte cost up to 3.

Force of Will is worded similarly to Aluren and its cost is increased to 3 by Trinisphere as well...