[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by anomie-p

I played a test game last Friday with a buddy of mine, he was playing UWR Delver. I had Island (tapped, I'd just pondered), Misty, Misty on the board and a hand that could go off through anything but FoW, he had two flipped Delvers, a Jitte and three lands (one untapped) on the board, a spell pierce (which he flipped the delvers off of) and one unknown card in hand - I decided to just go for it, figuring letting that Jitte hit me and letting him draw another card while hoping for hand disruption is worse than just making him have it right now, since I have to go off next turn if I don't go off this turn ...

I played petal, he pierced, I said "Pierce resolves, storm count three" -> His response? "Oh, crap" - he thought I was playing S&T/sneak or something like that and going for petal, fetch, fetch, S&T (I am not sure why he pierced the petal thinking that, it seems like waiting for the S&T and piercing that is better if you think that's what I'm on, but hey)

Anyway, the 'don't leak what you're playing' bit there made me think of that. I've been tracking storm counts by just making marks on my score sheet notes, because I can make sure that sheet is gone from the pad when I go into the next match ...

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Agree with this. Conversely, becoming known as 'the storm player' can leave you with people mulliganing aggressively against you. I believe that storm is better in larger tournaments where people don't know you (guess that can be said of most decks).

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Agree with this. Conversely, becoming known as 'the storm player' can leave you with people mulliganing aggressively against you. I believe that storm is better in larger tournaments where people don't know you (guess that can be said of most decks).

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So true

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Agree with this. Conversely, becoming known as 'the storm player' can leave you with people mulliganing aggressively against you. I believe that storm is better in larger tournaments where people don't know you (guess that can be said of most decks).

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Then again Bryant Cook recently top 8'd a large tournament a weekend ago so tight play can also get you where you need to be (;

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Originally Posted by JPoJohnson

Then again Bryant Cook recently top 8'd a large tournament a weekend ago so tight play can also get you where you need to be (;

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Well yes, obviously :)

I'm just saying, it's not a non-factor.

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

From playing this deck a lot, I have gotten to the point where I almost never write down my storm count on the first few spells.
That is usually enough for a rare free win as you demonstrated.

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On the other side of the coin, sometimes I'll announce storm count when I have no intention of comboing them. Land, Petal, "Storm is one", cantrip, "Storm is 2", etc. Some people like to counter your cantrips, and even though that's normally incorrect, it's annoying as hell. You can also bait some players into countering something irrelevant by putting dat tendrilz fear in 'em so you can resolve a Xantid Swarm or a Therapy to help clear a path.

I've also found that it's hard to keep it under wraps that you're storming people out. In the US, at least, people tend to crowd around combo players in-game, or complain at length when they lose to combo. Doing things like opening Misty Rainforest into Volcanic to play a turn 1 Ponder might make a lot of people think you're a RUG player with a slow hand, but in the end we all really just need to learn how to beat the hate. Tight play > mind games, every time.

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Originally Posted by gregtron

On the other side of the coin, sometimes I'll announce storm count when I have no intention of comboing them. Land, Petal, "Storm is one", cantrip, "Storm is 2", etc. Some people like to counter your cantrips, and even though that's normally incorrect, it's annoying as hell. You can also bait some players into countering something irrelevant by putting dat tendrilz fear in 'em so you can resolve a Xantid Swarm or a Therapy to help clear a path.

I've also found that it's hard to keep it under wraps that you're storming people out. In the US, at least, people tend to crowd around combo players in-game, or complain at length when they lose to combo. Doing things like opening Misty Rainforest into Volcanic to play a turn 1 Ponder might make a lot of people think you're a RUG player with a slow hand, but in the end we all really just need to learn how to beat the hate. Tight play > mind games, every time.

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Plan B: Build up a local reputation in the region as the guy who is 50% on Maverick(or any other midrange strategy) and 50% on AnT.
Therefore you are 50% to have your opponent keeping a bad hand in the dark. :tongue:

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

Plan B: Build up a local reputation in the region as the guy who is 50% on Maverick(or any other midrange strategy) and 50% on AnT.
Therefore you are 50% to have your opponent keeping a bad hand in the dark. :tongue:

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Until R1 is over and everyone knows :tongue:

I think preordain is the dead give away someone is on storm. I am only running two (not for that reason). Vault and Mox Diamond have replaced them. I have found it is fairly easy to throw your opponent off by pretending you are considering casting a Force of Will every time they want to cast a spell. This is one great way to get them to tap out, especially in the current meta because of all the Spell Pierces. This meta game seems to cause me to want to cast the vault, or a quick Ad Nauseum, and that is why I am playing with Diamond which is working really well.

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Originally Posted by jtos84

I think preordain is the dead give away someone is on storm. I am only running two (not for that reason). Vault and Mox Diamond have replaced them. I have found it is fairly easy to throw your opponent off by pretending you are considering casting a Force of Will every time they want to cast a spell. This is one great way to get them to tap out, especially in the current meta because of all the Spell Pierces. This meta game seems to cause me to want to cast the vault, or a quick Ad Nauseum, and that is why I am playing with Diamond which is working really well.

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I am not saying to cut Preordains just to have information advantage. I am not counting on winning a tournament because my opponents kept bad hands in the dark.

I dislike Mox Diamond in this deck, since lands are generally are a premium here. AnT is flexible enough to run the long game, so making land drops is somewhat important. If I really want to cut Preordain for another mana source, I would rather just play a 5 color land or even a Crystal Vein/City of Traitors.

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Originally Posted by mishima_kazuya

I am not saying to cut Preordains just to have information advantage. I am not counting on winning a tournament because my opponents kept bad hands in the dark.

I dislike Mox Diamond in this deck, since lands are generally are a premium here. AnT is flexible enough to run the long game, so making land drops is somewhat important. If I really want to cut Preordain for another mana source, I would rather just play a 5 color land or even a Crystal Vein/City of Traitors.

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I was already playing with two Preordains. I have been for quite a while. Normally I really do not like Mox Diamond, but the metagame is making it work out well for me. If the meta goes back to less storm hate, I would rather play Grim Tutor in the main, get rid of Mox Diamond, and play with three Preordains.

My buddy and i were trolling around yesterday about mindtricking the opponent and he suggested an old and antique cantrip:
Portent.
Well,i's like Ponder#5 which draws the cards not immediately but in the next upkeep so it's supposed to be a cantrip to set up a hand and load the gun rather than a card in the actual combo turn.

So What does portent tell our opponent?
Actually,...that you are a budget storm player whatever.
Don't take this suggestion to seriously guys :D



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by gregtron

Tight play > mind games, every time.

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That's kind of the sweet thing about the island/misty/misty I had on the board at the time. I knew he had wasteland in the deck, and I knew he didn't have stifles. I wasn't even attempting to trick him, I was just letting my fetches sit because I had no reason to use them yet, neither get black without getting a dual, grabbing a dual opens me up to wasteland, I already have blue, etc.

(and, well, I guess it being misty instead of say scalding tarn ... but I'd have to take apart my UWR delver to put tarns in my ant, which is why my ant runs misty - I get to let my 11 year old kick my behind w/ meddling mages and try to play through them ... I am 1-2 in practice matches against that kid, he seems to *always* get the meddling mages :D )

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

My buddy and i were trolling around yesterday about mindtricking the opponent and he suggested an old and antique cantrip:
Portent.
Well,i's like Ponder#5 which draws the cards not immediately but in the next upkeep so it's supposed to be a cantrip to set up a hand and load the gun rather than a card in the actual combo turn.

So What does portent tell our opponent?
Actually,...that you are a budget storm player whatever.
Don't take this suggestion to seriously guys :D



- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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... Also tried this before ;) the reason is you can rearrange opps library... The card is good, fun, has great art but unfortunate nombo with PiF disqualifies it

I tested 2-3 lightning bolt in my deck the last 2 days instead of 1 cantrip,1 lotus petal and 1 thoughtseize.

Bolting a shaman makes a lot of sense if your primary route to victory is only past in flames (and tutor chain as always).

However i tested the bolts in my 2 Ad Nauseam List and they weren't really necessary because i don't care about creatures in g1 (except hatebears g1,a rare thing)

I then tested chain if vapour in the bolt slots,which is also an removal spell that bounces all annoying permanents or just delays a shaman by 1 turn.
(Well and you can bounce your own led in the comboturn to get more storm counts,...)

Finally i wasn't sure about these 3,let's say "removal" slots.
Are they worth it? Isn't it just better to fill them with the cantrips and discard spells again.
To be honest i'm not sure.
(To have both cantrip and removal,i also thought about repeal but that's another story)


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

I tested 2-3 lightning bolt in my deck the last 2 days instead of 1 cantrip,1 lotus petal and 1 thoughtseize.

Bolting a shaman makes a lot of sense if your primary route to victory is only past in flames (and tutor chain as always).

However i tested the bolts in my 2 Ad Nauseam List and they weren't really necessary because i don't care about creatures in g1 (except hatebears g1,a rare thing)

I then tested chain if vapour in the bolt slots,which is also an removal spell that bounces all annoying permanents or just delays a shaman by 1 turn.
(Well and you can bounce your own led in the comboturn to get more storm counts,...)

Finally i wasn't sure about these 3,let's say "removal" slots.
Are they worth it? Isn't it just better to fill them with the cantrips and discard spells again.
To be honest i'm not sure.
(To have both cantrip and removal,i also thought about repeal but that's another story)


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Did you ever use bolt to facilitate a kill? There have been times when I was a 3 points or so away from a clean Tendrils kill, so by extension, there have been games when I was one Lightning Bolt away from a kill. The manabase is stretched thin already, though, with having to cast Past in Flames, Dark Ritual, and Abrupt Decay while fetching basic lands to avoid the Wasteland blowout. It would be nice to Bolt, combo, flashback Bolt to generate two extra storm while adding three storm worth of damage, but shit, RRR is pretty hard to make.

If I would have made it in time ... job issues

Mana is adjusted to the Wishes. That basically enables me to switch to "Grinding Station" on the fly and to have mainboard outs to crap

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

If I would have made it in time ... job issues

Mana is adjusted to the Wishes. That basically enables me to switch to "Grinding Station" on the fly and to have mainboard outs to crap

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I like your idea! Interested in your list.
Nice that Ant has maindeck outs to diff kinds of hate this way!

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

If I would have made it in time ... job issues

Mana is adjusted to the Wishes. That basically enables me to switch to "Grinding Station" on the fly and to have mainboard outs to crap

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What did you cut for the Wishes?
One AdN obviously. Also Preordains? Do you still play Top then?

I was experimenting with Clutch of the Undercity since lately. It's nice that it can be transmuted into Tendrils and PiF and also is not entirely irrelevant on it's own. Also it can only be stifled.
Of cause I cut AdN and added another PiF and Tendrils to the deck.
Postboard it can also fetch up Massacre.

Any thoughts on Clutch?

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Originally Posted by NoizeMe

What did you cut for the Wishes?
One AdN obviously. Also Preordains? Do you still play Top then?

I was experimenting with Clutch of the Undercity since lately. It's nice that it can be transmuted into Tendrils and PiF and also is not entirely irrelevant on it's own. Also it can only be stifled.
Of cause I cut AdN and added another PiF and Tendrils to the deck.
Postboard it can also fetch up Massacre.

Any thoughts on Clutch?

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Never played top. Never played Preordain. Cutted Ad Nauseam to only run the 5 "engine/kill-cards" in the picture. Wishing for Telemin in combo matchups is boarderline costwise. Wanted to give the idea a spin as Julian Knab was in town yesterday for an afterwork tourney, but didn't make it out of the office in time. 45min drive at 19pm to be already too late and hungry wasn't appealing.

Clutch can at least dig up Massacre in postboard games. Not sure if the cost/effect is worth it considering the fact that it Acts as a budget Grim Tutor. The lack of the later card was also my reason to toy around with the DW

I'm wondering about our sideboard,is there a reason why there aren't 2-3 copies of defense grid?
Very similar to xantid Swarm,but you can cast it and then just continue comboing.
Many players leave some removal spells in their deck because they fear swarm so it would be great to make those cards dead.
Usually they don't board in decay.


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -