Try waiting until you can float more mana. I generally try and float BU.Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenalpow
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Try waiting until you can float more mana. I generally try and float BU.Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenalpow
That's rough, but the GG part can be exaggerated some times, once TES has 7 new cards and the card advantage he gained from Lands/Chrome Moxes etc. the deck shouldn't be in a bad position against the opponent most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenalpow
You're probably just running bad, but you could try adding Tendrils of Agony or Empty the Warrens in the Draw 4 slots.
I feel like I should post this game up while I remember.
I'm playing against UGr Thrash.
I'm on the play. I have to mull, and then pass my first turn by doing nothing. My friends opening hand turned out to be Stifle, Force, Force, Goyf, Fetch, Waste, Goose. Next draw was a Fetch.
My hand was Burning Wish, Chrome Mox, LED, Infernal Contract, Chant.
I draw City of Brass, which I held onto, and then Lotus Petal.
I Contract to find a second LED. The Contract goes through.
Now I'm at 1 life. I play Chant, Chant, Burning Wish, LED, LED, Diminishing Returns with BU floating.
I RFG a Tendrils, and hit Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, EtW, Dark Rit and some other stuff. I make 22 Goblin Tokens and burn for 0.
He brainstorms for burn, mental notes, and hits the Fire/Ice with two mana open.
Goddamnit. That was the closest game of magic I've ever played.
I've been testing a lot against Thrash. Last night I won three games against Thrash, but this morning I lost three. They were all incredibly close.
Hand was:
SSG
Rite of Flame
Petal
LED
Dark Ritual
Cabal Ritual
Burning Wish
On the play, I figured, hey, 60% he doesn't have FOW. Play out the mana, Wish, crack LED, get...well I should have gotten ETW I suppose, but I went for Diminishing Returns, with URBB floating and seven storm. And my new seven cards are: three fast mana (but no LED) + three lands + Infernal Tutor. God damn it.
>_< Just frustrated I guess...
I played TES yesterday again in my local metagame, taking first again because of Shusher. I beat, Belcher, UWgb Landstill, Fetchland Tendrils, Painter, and Faerie Stompy with the list on the first page. Geoff (Konsultant) even said he's starting to think that Landstill has a bad match-up against TES. Shusher is definitely going to make TES see some more Top 8's this summer.
Sorry for the bad luck with Diminishing Returns guys. I cast Diminishing Returns 11 times yesterday and not once did I fizzle. You have to set Diminishing Returns up and I don't think people realize this. Don't play a land, and try to have at least 2 mana floating, that's the best way to win off the card.
Returns works out more often than not for me, just not as often as I would hope. If I had gotten one more card, it would have been a Brainstorm that would draw me into a LED and I could Infernal up a win, so it was just bad luck that time - I couldn't have set it up better, I had 7 storm, 4 mana in all relevant colors, and yet to make my land drop. Just rotten luck.
Bryant, what's your most recent list? I've been thinking of testing this deck for awhile now and I haven't found a list on the last few pages.
Opening post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jujuhawk
Mini Report
I managed 2nd place in a double elimination tournament against Goblins, Aggro-Loam, Red Stompy, Ichorid, AfFOWnity, UGW Threshold, UW Landstill and UWB Dreadnought (my pet deck piloted by a friend).
Round 1: Goblins
Game 1 is a win, game 2 is a loss due to turn 1 Chalice of the Void, Mountain, Goblin Lackey go followed by a Wasteland and a Siege Gang Commander on the following turn, game 3 is a win due to double Time Walking him with Orim's Chant and then going off with Diminishing Returns into Tendrils of Agony.
Round 2: Ichorid
Game 1 I keep a debatable hand of City of Brass, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Lotus Petal, Dark Ritual, Burning Wish and Orim's Chant on the play, I storm for 5 and put 10 Goblins on the board. The opponent drops City of Brass, Putrid Imp and then discard his entire hand except for two cards. I swing in for ten and then pass the turn. The opponent dredges, plays a land and then discards Deep Analysis, I respond with Orim's Chant. I swing in for 9 and then Ponder into a second Orim's Chant, I show the Orim's Chant and then Ichorid scoops on its following turn. Game 2 Ichorid blows me out, game 3 I pass the turn, Orim's Chant in response to a Cephalid Coliseum and then go off on the following turn.
Round 3: AfFOWnity
Game 1 is a win, I go All In with Infernal Tutor into Tendrils of Agony and my opponent scoops before I can see a single card. Game 2 is a loss, I decide not to risk SBing in sub-optimal cards and get Chalice of the Void at 0, 1 and 2 by turn 4 to thank for it, he's running both 2 mana lands and Trinket Mage for a pseudo Faerie Stompy approach. Game 3 is a win, I decide to board out Orim's Chant and board in both Vexing Shusher and Shattering Spree, I wipe his board repeatedly with Shattering Spree(s) and then beat down with Vexing Shusher(s) and Simian Spirit Guide(s) just for the humiliation factor. I'm not 100% certain SBing out Orim's Chant is the right approach to the AfFOWnity/Faerie Stompy match up, but Force of Will is no where near as bad as Chalice of the Void, so concentrating on their lock pieces seemed like the most sensible approach.
I doubt AfFOWnity/Faerie Stompy have a good match up against us with out Arcane Laboratory or Eye of the Storm, between Shattering Spree and Vexing Shusher TES doesn't give a fuck about Chalice of the Void any more.
Round 4: Aggro-Loam
As much as I like Aggro-Loam, it doesn't have a chance in hell against Storm, even with MD Chalice of the Void it's just too slow to threaten TES after it resolves a lock piece. He tried to put up a fight with SB Trinisphere but the match up was over before it even started, I apologized to the kid and sold him a set of Force of Wills.
Round 5: UGW Threshold
Game 1 is a win, I Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame and then pause to see the opponent's reaction, he doesn't bother to counter the second Rite of Flame so I Lotus Petal, Lotus Petal and then resolve Empty the Warrens for 10. He plays an Island, Ponders and the passes the turn. I draw and swing in for 10. He plays an Island, Ponders and then shows me the Force of Will he kept on the first turn and Engineered Explosives. Game 2 is a win, he SBs out Swords to Plowshares and Engineered Explosives for Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top and I introduce him to Vexing Shusher as he tries to Spellsnare it. He curses for leaving Blue Elemental Blast in the SB and scoops to an uncounterable Burning Wish->Cleanfall and uncounterable Orim's Chant.
Round 6: UW Landstill
This is the match up TES has to fear, it's Zvi's Enlightened Tutor and Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top shell using Muta Vault's to speed up the kill and Crucible of Worlds/Humility to dominate the end game.
Game 1 is a loss, I keep a cantrip based hand and while I'm digging for Lion's Eye Diamond and Orim's Chant he drops Counterbalance and saves his counter wall for Burning Wish. Game 2 is a loss, he keeps Swords to Plowshares in while SBing out Wrath of God for Chalice of the Void, Rule of Law and Engineered Explosives, and in the end I just can't compete with all of that on any level.
First Elimination.
Round 7: Red Stompy
For all intents and purposes it's Dragon Stompy, but he doesn't use Dragons in favor of Siege Gang Commander and Empty the Warrens and he doesn't use Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon in favor of Trinisphere and Boil effects. Since the deck was intending on facing Aggro and Control, but still had 8 lock pieces, it was a queer match up. Game 1 I forced him to scoop, game 2 I was caught under Trinisphere and couldn't find a Shattering Spree, game 3 was a long drawn out match where I was the control deck Burning Wishing for Pyroclasm to remove his Token threats and Shattering Spree(ing) to remove his lock pieces while I held him off with Time Walks from Orim's Chant until I luck sacked Diminishing Returns off the top of my deck. It was the first match up ever where Orim's Chant's kicker won me the game in a top decking war. Red Stompy was a cool deck and I gave him a lot of props for raping people with turn 1 Siege Gang Commanders followed by Boil.
Round 8: UWB Dreadnought
UWB Dreadnought is like Dreadstill but a hell of a lot better, it focuses on turn 2 Dreadnoughts with Enlightened Tutor, Stifle and Vision Charm and Time Walking them with Daze and Wasteland or just setting up the Counterbalance/Sensei's Diving Top lock and winning at its discretion.
There's no more perverse satisfaction than losing to your own pet deck, game 1 Force of Will, Stifle and Daze keep me off balance long enough for Enlightened Tutor to find Counterbalance, and game 2 I have to deal with Enlightened Tutor finding Chalice of the Void and Rule of Law for a complete lock.
Second Elimination, I pick up some Beta Dual Lands for my trouble.
Right now I feel that TES is in a great place, Vexing Shusher has made match ups like Faerie Stompy/AfFOWnity, UGW Threshold and UBGx Landstill so much easier, especially if they aren't prepared for you and/or Goblins. I feel I can either out race or play thru' Counterbalance and Chalice of the Void easily, and it either takes a fistful of Stifle/Blue Elemental Blasts to put me away or an odd ball Enlightened Tutor based deck to just WTF PWN me off the face of the earth.
After skittles, the UGR Threshold match up and Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top based Cephalid decks appear to be unfavorable match ups, but I haven't seen either of those decks in the local metagame or on MWS, which I assume is because UGR Threshold packs it in to the Threshold Mirror and Cephalid has its own problems. The 4/5c Threshold deck appears to be unfavorable as well, but if they're going to throw the kitchen sink at you and play that awful manabase, I'll take my game loss and watch them squirm against Stifle, Waste/Port and Blood Moons all day.
The list I ran was the standard list with -2 Draw 4 for +2 Empty the Warrens, -2 ??? Gold Lands for 2 Glimmervoids (I was having serious life issues with Tarnished Citadel and Vexing Shusher) and the standard SB with 4 Shattering Spree instead of the Pyroblasts and a Draw 4 instead of a Thoughtseize.
Good report. I love how you only lose to Enlightened Tutor. Maybe the 3 Pyroblasts would have helped in the blue matches? I still think they deserve aspotbecause they counter CB and just help.
The Enlightened Tutor decks are just a lost cause, I'd rather focus on beating the Trinishphere/Chalice of the Void or Force of Will/Chalice of the Void decks with Shattering Spree, that card won me 2 matches in and of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
The UGR and UGB Threshold matches don't appear to be that bad, Pyroclasm and Thought Seize are irritating, but they have to make up for Meddling Mage. As long as SBs aren't pointed at TES/Goblins, I feel comfortable piloting the deck in a random metagame, short of UW Landstill, UWB Dreadnought and Counterbalance Cephalid there just isn't a decidedly unfavorable/unwinnable match up for the deck.
Vexing Shusher is just the nuts.
I'm not afraid of Landstill or UWB Dreadnought. They're blue but I don't see anything to fear. Cephalid is a bad match-up. Agreed on Shusher. My local metagame has too much blue to take out blast. Although, if I was to go play in a large event, I'd cut my 2 blasts for the 2nd and 3rd Shattering Spree. 4 seems a bit to obsessive for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
Basically what it comes down to is their guaranteed turn 2 Counterbalance, and/or Engineered Explosives in the case of Empty the Warrens, followed by Chalice of the Void and Rule of Law stretches your disruption/answers too thin. The UW Landstill match up is just unfavorable, since it relies on Force of Will for turn 1 and its win conditions give you time to maneuver, but the UWB Dreadnought match up is just unwinnable, because you can't deal with MD Force of Will, Daze, Stifle, Counterbalance, Wasteland and SB Rule of Law and Chalice of the Void, and that's barring Meddling Mage and Thought Seize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
I'll PM the MDs and SBs if you want to see for yourself.
I run 4 Shattering Spree so I can keep 1 Shattering Spree in the SB, but Trinisphere/Chalice of the Void and Force of Will/Chalice of the Void based decks are real popular here, so it's a metagame call.
Edit: I'm talking about a specific Landstill deck, general Landstill decks aren't that bad.
So Thrash's MD, minus Spell Snares and then more hate coming in? What deck plays that much hate? Seems weird. Luckily, you won't see too many of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
I'll post UWB Dreadnought in N&D when I find some time, that should answer most of your question with out cluttering up the TES thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
When playing with Shusher, do you and Bryant feel that it is worth waiting for the last possible minute to drop Shusher and go off right then, or is it stronger to drop Shusher turn 2 and try to go off Turn 3, hoping they don't have removal?Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
The opponent is going to have counters more often than he is going to have removal, so I'd rather cast Vexing Shusher and either untap and win on the next turn or force the opponent to search for removal instead of counters, waiting to cast Vexing Shusher just makes it more likely they'll have removal to deal with him when you do cast him.
I put him on the board with Chrome Mox and Land on turn 1 a lot.
Yeah, that seems strong because a lot of decks don't have any removal for 1, or can't hit on on turn 1, so he's fairly safe then. Also, he can beat for 2 and then you can combo, which is strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
I think that 3 Shattering Sprees in the board are a necessity, as people will start to bring in Pithing Needle to deal with Shusher (that may be the most effective hate card for him).
Actually, the most effective card against Shusher is BEB. Needle keeps the dude on the table and can be destroyed. I can only see Needle having an advantage over BEB when Shusher is cast the turn you go off. Frankly, that's quite a lot of mana.
Just because the opponent could have removal for Vexing Shusher doesn't mean that casting Vexing Shusher and going off on the same turn is the only way Vexing Shusher is advantageous. I've seen Landstill SB in Threads of Disloyalty, Engineered Explosives, Pithing Needle, Blue Elemental Blast, Stifle and keep Swords to Plowshares and Pernicious Deed MD just to deal with him while he sits in my SB with Empty the Warrens collecting all of the dead card advantage they can give me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaiminho
The overreaction to the card is profound, I've had opponent's scoop and show 2 Swords to Plowshares in hand, "I guess you didn't draw Vexing Shusher," lol.
The card is priceless.