What you think about abzan stoneblade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
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What you think about abzan stoneblade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Isnt Aggro Loam the "meta version" of both Jund and Maverik?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3boy316
As someone who plays Miracles, I fear Shardless BUG more than Maverick or Jund. I also think Shardless BUG is in general a better BGx deck than the other two. I would work on getting better with that deck (sideboarding, match-ups, etc) rather than trying to switch over to a whole new deck.
With that said, my preference would be Maverick if you're dead set on switching. I think you have a better match-up against the general field. Maverick is awesome against combo (teeg can sometimes give you free wins game one against ANT) and has game against the fair decks, whereas Jund usually just loses to combo but has a better game against fair decks.
Cutting Vision against Miracles is almost certianly wrong. You win by running them out of answers (or, much less frequently, by brutally smashing them with Tarmogoyfs if they stumble) and killing with whatever you have left, and Vision is the best way to keep gas in the tank. I don't think Cage pulls its weight in that matchup, eiher. I think you just need more practice with Shardless, as it's quite well positioned right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3boy316
That being said, 4c Loam is probably where you want to be if you're torn between Maverick and Jund and aren't feeling the blue apects of Shardless. Its better against Miracles, Lands, and ANT, while being slightly worse against Eldrazi, TES and Sneak and Show and comparably good against Delver and other fair blue decks. It's way worse against Belcher. Neither is particularly strong against Reanimator.
Yeah, my boarding plan with Shardless vs Miracles always involves trimming a couple of cards here and there (-2 Baleful Strix, -2 Thoughtseize) and adding more impactful cards (1 Pithing Needle, 1 Null Rod, 1 Sylvan Library, 1 Vendilion Clique). If you don't play Thoughtseize you can trim the 1 Toxic Deluge and maybe an Ancestral (not more than 1 though) or the 3rd Hymn (it is good vs Miracles but you don't really want to draw them in the lategame when they are hellbent).Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
You could also make an argument for cutting a Deathrite Shaman or Tarmogoyf, but I haven't been a fan of this recently.
More or less, depending on how well one knows how to pilot the deck. This deck has a pretty nice game on most of the field and is very flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noctalor
I find the deck a pretty solid choice, especially in the current Eldrazi era. The deck reminds me of MTG of yore. Very neutral choice in an unknown meta. But in playstyle a little bit to linear for my taste. Coming from mainly Survival of the Fittest i tend to choose decks with a toolbox/combo'ish playstyle, hence, Maverick, Aggro Loam, NicFit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whit3boy316
Here's the thread for that deck. BTW, it's known as Junk or The Rock. You could probably call it Dark Maverick and get away with it, but calling it Abzan Stoneblade is a total noob move: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Deck-The-RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Whit3boy316
Lol sorry.....back in my day "the rock" was spirit monger, im just going off this listQuote:
Originally Posted by ESG
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=99984
Punishing maverick sorta faded away when miracles was introduced. Jund is more consistent than Aggro Loam though.
Aggro loam has better answers for certain matchups but it suffers from inconsistent draws (mox diamond acc. into few threats, no life from loam when u need it)
Picking up NO RUG, though I'm struggling to find a 75 I like. Daze feels weak (but it's in Reid Duke's list so I can't immediately discount it), and I want to fit in scavenging ooze or trygon predator (maybe both?). Suggestions on countermagic and any tweaks to this 75 would be nice
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Ponder
3 Daze
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Force of Will
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sylvan Library
4 Brainstorm
4 Natural Order
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Progenitus
2 Spell Pierce
1 Chain Lightning
SB: 1 Bonfire of the Damned
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 2 Kitchen Finks
SB: 2 Grim Lavamancer
Considering picking up ANT to play at a shop with the following decks:
Grixis Delver
Maverick
Show and Tell
Lands
Eldrazi Stompy
I was playing Miracles for a while but it didn't fare too well. Any suggestions, or should I be playing something else entirely?
A common myth. It was the printing of deathrite shaman that really did Kotr in. If it was just miracles, then Maverick would still be around and just have a bad match up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jawa
Hi all. New to the forum and just getting into Legacy, so looking to brush up a bit. Can anyone help by letting me know if there is a big ol' chart or something out there that cross references the MUs? What is good v what etc.? Rough percentages (as accurate as they ever can be!).
I have been settled on RUG delver for some months now, but I am considering my options for other decks and just wanted a bit more format knowledge.
Thanks in advance!
Hi, Iceagedisenchant. I can't think of any singular chart that plots out matchup percentages. Legacy is quite broad, after all. You might leaf through the Established Decks and the Decks to Beat sections. Many of the opening posts for each deck lists good and bad matchups, sometimes with approximate win/loss percentages. Feel free to probe for updated data by asking people for impressions of a matchup, although sometimes you'll receive conflicting opinions on which deck is favored. You'll also want to spend some quality time in the RUG Delver/Canadian Threshold thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Tempo-Thresh)Quote:
Originally Posted by iceagedisenchant
Thanks for the reply. I was kind of expecting that answer, but it is good to get it confirmed. Cheers again.
Hello, I wonder what to play in my metagame for fnms. My community usually plays : miracles/MUD without Eldrazi cards/Storm/sneak and show x3/random delver (grixis or 4c delver) and one last player switching between storm/elves.
If I play Delver, I usually get crushed by MUD and Miracles whatever the sb cards :mad: . If I play Miracles, I get crushed every time by MUD or storm and when I play Shardless, I almost always lose to Sneak and Show/storm or elves :cry:.
I have the pool to play Shardless, any Delver deck and any miracles deck without moat. Which deck would you suggest and why?:smile:
Thanks for the help.
I'm looking to buy into a non blue, oh those duals :frown:, tier 1 or 2 deck to go along with my BR Reanimator. I currently have a bayou, 3 Badlands, playset of Windswept Heath, Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills to work with, and a budget of $1000 ish. Here's my current meta.
Meta:
Sneak and Show
Burn
Shardless BUG
Eldrazi and Taxes
Miracles x2
Infect
Lands
U/R Delver
Enchantress
Grixis Delver
Tin Fins
B/R Reanimator
Belcher
Turbo Depths
Mono Red Sneak
Ok I haven't played any Legacy in like 6 months, and not seriously since about this time last year. GP Denver is coming up this weekend and I'm not sure what to play. I've got a bunch of staples hanging around as long as they aren't from the last few sets. Usually I lean towards big dumb aggro decks. Past successes have come from Junk, Zoo, Maverick, BW D&T, and I'll always have a soft spot for old school Jund Aggro Loam and of course TinFins, although I've never done that well with either at a large event. Winning isn't really a big deal as long as I'm having fun with the deck, but this is going to be at a shitty hotel near the airport with nothing interesting nearby, so I'd like to at least be semi-competitive. I'm wondering if there are some spicy brews floating around that I don't know about?
I'm attending a 1K this weekend, expected meta would be BUG, Lands, Loam, DD, Miracles, Derpdrazi.
My weapons of choice are
Grixis Delver
Bug Delver (Stifle / Hymn version)
LED Dredge
UB Reanimator
Any suggestion on something spicy?
Hello everyone, I quite new to playing legacy even though I've been watching the format for quite some time now, currently I've played Led-dredge in local tounaments a couple of time but my metagame is filled with deathrite shaman and surgical extraction so it is not a good metagame call ^^, Anyway i'd like to build a new deck that would be budget at first to be able to play but upgradable to something more powerful in the long run . My metagame is composed of a lot of Miracles and BUG variants (from delver to True name/leovold and more control-ish types) there is also some burn, Storm and grixis delver.
Thanks for your advices ! :smile:
For me it's been some time since I've been active in legacy; my shop mostly does modern.
However, I am in the Legacy seat for my team for the November SCG Team Open. As such, I need to turn my attention back to legacy for the summer/fall.
I'm looking for a deck that I can start jamming and grinding MTGO leagues as well as local smaller events (wont be as often, as I'll have to travel a bit).
I'm more concerned with a deck I can know the ins and outs to, and be competetive with in November. Budget is not an issue; I already own playsets of most duals and will be fine to pickup whatever I need. I've been dabbling with Dragon Stompy on MTGO this week to become reacquanted with the format; but I think the deck is too high variance to bank on in November.
Jam something with a defined shell that plays Brainstorm and Force of Will if you are concerned about variance. Right now the metagame is in flux, so it is hard to say what it will look like in November. A Delver variant should remain competitive, as well as potentially some form of Stoneblade but that deck has not settled into new configuration for this meta. You could also just jam a deck that rewards lots of practice like storm or something that offers free wins backed up with countermagic like Sneak and Show.Quote:
Originally Posted by walked
Grixis Delver is probably your safest bet, it can be adapted with Stifle, Hymn, Therapy etc depending on how the meta shifts as you move to November.
Thanks; this was certainly on my list of considerations. I realize the meta is askew at the moment but want to do my best to get meaningful play with at least a loose archetype before November. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
Thinking about coming back into Legacy because my local scene is finally latching on (oddly enough after i stopped playing Legacy to move into Vintage). I tend to play fair creature decks and I avoid blue largely. I played Death and Taxes for a while but I am unsure how it will shake out long term despite the recent win at GP Vegas. I am opting into Nic Fit, as a deck i have been eyeing up for a while. I built into a standard Junk build that I am enjoying. I like the Punishing Jund version as well but I am unsure about that general shift into Jund over Junk in regards to the weakness of both decks (quick combo). What am I looking at in regards to general meta in the legacy scene? It has been over a year since I have played in any events. Looking to jam vintage at EW and I need to decide if its worth getting reps in for legacy. Assume I am in Junk regardless, but a general meta breakdown would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Deciding to build Nic Fit because you don't think Death & Taxes is good is some pretty interesting reasoning.
Let me clarify. I am not against running Death and Taxes at all. In all honesty I should be running it because I have ~3 years of experience with the archtype. I know a red or black splash is optimal at the moment (I read Phil's articles on Thraben University). I am really just looking for a current meta breakdown now that top is banned.
Mono-White Death & Taxes won GP Las Vegas and is doing fine on MTGO. I think the need for a splash colour has been very overstated.
i thought so. i think i am overthinking the elves matchup.
After having sold of a big chunk of my collection, I am looking for a deck to build, which I will hopefully be able to keep and use for quite some time. I am looking for a deck which somehow fits the following criteria :
1. A control / prison deck. Maybe with combo elements.
2. Should be relatively easy to tweak to almost any meta game
3. Some cross-over opportunity to modern is a plus. As it seems most people in my area plays this inferior format :wink:
I have previous been playing ultimate walker, miracles, death and taxes, Quinn and lots of control brews.
What I have been considering is 8Tezz or the new predict miracles. Do you think this would fit the above criteria, or do you have better suggestions?
Budget is not a problem.
Perhaps the all in red/red prison deck suits your tastes. Control elements are plentiful with blood moon/chalice and ensnaring bridge mixed with turn 2/3 Koth or Chandra. I also believe the deck has applications in the aforementioned inferior format as well ;)
Chalice @1 deck sounds like a good fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by hjalte
Monored Stompy, example deck list:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15949&d=298173&f=LE
Alternative monored stompy with Smokestack:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15830&d=297157&f=LE
Transforms into Modern Free Win Red / RW Nahiri control.
Eldrazi & Taxes (Eldrazi with Thalia and potentially Mystic and/or Punishing Fire thrown in):
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16036&d=298721&f=LE
Has some pieces of RW Nahiri control as well, but not as many. Has the RW color scheme, though.
RW Nahiri control example deck list:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16064&d=298915&f=MO
Even more niche:
Foretold stompy:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...oretold-Stompy
Transforms into Modern Restore Balance control.
I play solely on MTGO (leagues), got substantial experience playing the game even if I'm an average player, some experience of legacy.
Taking into account affordability, preferences, etc, I have made a shortlist (below) and would appreciate some advice on what you guys think would be best (from the below!) for the MTGO leagues:
GB Depths
Elves
UR Delver
Eldrazi
Burn
Soldier Stompy
Portless D&T
Thanks for any help!
Bumping this thread. Most of these decks seem reasonably positioned. I don't have a lot of faith in Soldier Stompy. My top choices would be Elves, Burn, Turbo Depths, and UR Delver. I don't play MTGO, so perhaps someone else can give jmlima a recommendation.
Many of the decks in the leagues have been Grixis Delver and Czech Pile, so I think Burn might actually be the best budget deck to play right now.
Edit: So here is my situation. Maybe you guys can help me out.
Through the years I have played quite a few decks. I played Zoo from legacy's inception until it became apparent you had to play Maverick if you wanted to succeed against the growing power of combo. After that, I kept playing Maverick until TNN came out, at which point I switched to Jund (after a few poor tournament performances at SCG Opens). I continued playing that until Treasure Cruise, and then I swore to only play blue for the rest of my legacy career (after hitting another low-point in tournament results). I bought into Grixis Delver, and played that until DTT got banned. I switched back to BUG Delver/Shardless, as those appeared to be the best positioned. At this point, I experienced the greatest amount of MTG success I have ever known, top 8ing an SCG Classic and placing well at a couple "Duel for Duals" type tournaments. After the banning of Top, Grixis once again cemented itself as the best delver deck.
Here is where I currently stand. I have played BUG delver for about 2 years and I feel good with the deck, if not phenomenal about it's position in the meta. I would also like to buy in to MTGO, ideally with the same deck as I have in paper so that I can get some practice in (I only get a chance to play paper about once every two months, and I want MTGO to increase my practice). Unfortunately, I don't think this is a reality as my collection outside of BUG is 2 Trops, 1 Scrubland, 3 True-Name, a few other medium priced cards that I could sell, but in "dealer money" I could probably only get about 400-500 dollars (need $1000 at least for BUG Delver, 800 for a sub-optimal budget version).
My goal is to find something to play that will have longevity. I am afraid to buy into more grindy removal-based decks, because they are always changing. This year 4c is still the hotness, but I guarantee something will replace it in about a year or two. This type of deck will always exist in some form, but it is too hard to keep up. Instead I have several "paths":
1) The Daze path. I would likely have enough money to buy into Grixis in both paper and online if I sell most of my extra staples. I feel very confident that a "Daze deck" will always exist in this format, and they are probably my favorite archetype to play because I like aggro-style strategies (as long as they can win).
2) The UW Control path. I feel as though this shell of cards will always be strong, and they will never ban any card from it in the forseeable future. I am confident there will always be at least a tier 1.5 UW control deck in legacy. Will have enough to put this together in paper and online if I sell my bug staples.
3) The "bankroll" path. Pick a relatively cheap deck (Storm, Death and Taxes, Elves, Jund, Reanimator, Eldrazi, BUG Aluren) that would allow me to have a large bankroll on MTGO for plenty of practice (even if I suck and don't do very well in the first bunch of leagues).
4) The "stick to your guns path". Just keep playing BUG in paper, and continue practicing on suboptimal free programs like Cockatrice with more fringe decks and people who quit after game 1. Not ideal, but maybe the smartest path to preserve the value of my collection. Maybe slowly re-invest into MTGO, finishing my deck after 2-3 years.
Another consideration is that I really want to be able to play in some of the LGSs close to me, and they only have modern tournaments. If I have a paper deck that is pretty close to a modern deck, I would get a chance to play in more paper tournaments.
Has anyone else been in this sort of position? Is what I am thinking to do unwise? I just need someone to help mentor me and my collection goals.
Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading!
Edit: crap sorry for the epic necro guys.
Hi Guys,
back into Legacy and now I want to build a new deck. In the past I have played Storm for a long time, but I am getting a bit tiered of it and want something new to try. I really enjoy Combo in general, so I thoughted of building up Sneak and Show. But I am not sure how good it is in the current meta with all the D&T, Eldrazi, and Delver Decks. So would you consider Sneak and Show still as a Tier1 to Tier 1.5 deck, where just the meta isn`t the best for it, or isn`t as good in general anymore? So is it a good investion in the long term, or should I spend my money for another deck. Have thoughted of Grixis Delver but everyone plays it :wink: Thanks for help!
Greetz
Sneak and Show will always be good. It has a better D&T matchup now thanks to Omniscience in the maindeck, and it is still fine against Delver and UBxx control. It is amazing against like 60% of the meta (Prison decks, Lands, Elves, Aggro Loam, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinkhole
Something a little frustrating about it is the bad Reanimator and Dredge matchups though. That said, I think it is a fine deck to choose and some version of Show and Tell will always be capable of performing well at any size tournament.
Thank you for your assessment ironclad8690.
After an excessive tasting of Sneak and Show I have decieded that it isn`t "my" Deck. It`s to much dependant on the key cards and it`s really hard to play against Hate and Discard. Also 8 Counters weren`t often times enough to win the counter war. Overall i didn`t feelt comfortable with that deck. So often I didn`t find the right piece of the combo and lost without doing anything. Another reason that I would not like to play Sneak and Show is that all the games were similar without much thinking and interaction with my opponent. That will start to bore me really soon I think. Further is the cardpool very limited. I don`t know any other deck I would like to play with that kind of cardpool.
So I have decieded to play Grixis Delver. It feelt very comfortable to me and it fitted my personal play style better. I liked the high redundancy over the combo and with ANT I just have a combo deck readdy to play. Also from the cardpool of Grixis Delver it`s easy to go on put Bug and Canadian togheter. I think it`s the better choice or I am totally wrong?
Greetz
Sounds like Grixis Delver would be a better fit for you. And it's not too hard to build into other stuff as well :)
Yes that`s the point.
Further from my ANT I have most of the needed Duals. For Grixis I only need a 3rd Sea and 1 Volcanic and I am not forced to buy cards for a high amount of money like city of traitors, for which I haven`t another use. Most of the games were very difficult to win with SnS. I think Grixis is the stronger and better choice even in the aspect of a reasonable long term investment. So now I only have to hope that the Shaman doesn`t get knocked out by the ban hammer :tongue: