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Sorry but some pro players here believe that elfball is not a good deck. Therefore according to those pro players your argument is not acceptable.Quote:
beaten by Elfball in the finals
Oh, and yes, ban survival. Then we'll get again this healthy metagame trusted by merfolks. Nice !
Elf Ball is like french military history, they may have been colose to winnintg some battles, but they've never won a war.Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchy-man
Totally wrong. Check out French history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdez
I sense sarcasm!!! Awesome, oh yeah check the latest French metagame results Survival is over there too doing big things. Elfball has never done anything worth talking about in America to the best of my knowledge. I can't see anyone arguing it is a tier 1 or 2 deck and being serious, so why would someone trying to win play a 3rd tier combo deck? People play it here, but it's scrub tier. So according to you France > America at Legacy because Survival wasn't winning big events, now it is. Meanwhile several decks that seem to put up pretty continual results over there are considered scrub tier over here which makes me wonder what is going on over their when the rest of Europe seems to be pimping ANT and TES and France is placing elf decks and WR aggro. Not that I would particularly call you on it if you didn't act like France knew something the rest of the world didn't. At least on Survival we can now see that isn't entirely the case. Also as the the original comment you quoted I'd have to say most of America DOESN'T AGREE WITH BANNING SURVIVAL on the 20th, at least as of 2-3 weeks ago the poll showed that people were almost 4 to 1 against banning anything on the 20th.Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchy-man
Sorry I did not read all your post. I stopped at "it is not a tiers 1 or 2 deck". Totally wrong. It is not because it is not played in the US that it makes of elfball a bad deck. Sorry but I don't remember the US being the center of the world, especially in magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbiteitholmes
Whatever, I was answering to someone that made quite the same attacks on elfball few pages ago.
Oh, and sorry but I don't want make a continent war (otherwise I would have said, for example, that two french were in the final of the world, that nassifs won the GP in the US, ...), so let's stop there.
At least we got one older than just 2 centuries. Since when one's history value should be compared to the numbers of battles won? Ah sweet American "policeness" of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valdez
End of troll.
(and yea, soft doesnt deserve a ban yet, it could easily got smashed)
No one said US was center of the world for Magic, everyone knows French players are good at Magic obviously, this whole thing started because someone posted results from 4 large tournaments in France without Survival in the top 8 and said like "Ooh Lala Survival fails to overcome the meta." The argument goes both ways, but now that Survival has shown up in a large French event is SCG Open like numbers I think we can agree that the problem is not just America fails to adapt overall but that Survival + Vine is really good. That said, most hardcore Legacy players seem to agree we don't need to ban it YET and that WoTC should give the format more time to develop to see if Survival or Vines are really broken or if the format just hasn't adjusted yet. I don't think we should ban Survival regardless. My opinion is the same as always, wait a couple more months, let us innovate, and if decks with Survival + Vine are still making up 1/2 the top 8's of 100+ person events worldwide when the next banned list update comes around ban Vengevine, as there are 6000 creatures in Legacy and only that one has put Survival in tier 1 status since Pithing Needle was printed. Either way I'm over arguing about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchy-man
In standard 5 UB in top 8. However it is not question to ban the deck. In legacy, 2 survival in to 8. Why would survival be banned ?
Like Artowis just said in another thread, they played 18 rounds at Worlds but only 6 of them were with Standard decks, so the fact that 5 UB decks made top 8 doesn't mean much. Some of the UB players in the top 8 had very bad records in the Standard portion. For instance, one went 3-3 with UB but tea bagged everyone in draft and Extended, so he still made top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchy-man
I doubt either SotF or Vengevine are going anywhere. Survival has been "fair" for years and there are numerous ways to handle Vengevine. Sure, it can be the nuts, but any deck can be the nuts if it gets it's god hand. We haven't had the deck exist long enough to determine if it's format warping like Flash.
I'm almost bored to death by all those Survival discussions.
Maybe a more interesting discussion would be about Wizards abandoning their own rules on power creep by printing so many strong cards. It seems to me they abandoned them completely in favor of maximizing sales profits.
Apparently it is discussion already. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...e-Anyawy/page4
Because WotC has this quaint notion that people who play Legacy are casual players and they need to keep the format "fun" and casual. See Mystical Tutor. If it's good enough for pros to beat casuals on MTGO, it's too good.Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchy-man
Well, in what will likely be the last time I get to play the deck, I went 3-1 in my final run with Vengevine Survival, making my career run with the deck X-1 (I think 18-1, not entirely sure.) And swerved several people's opinions on the ban list in the process, as I stuck Survival on the table only twice, and was 1-1 in those games. I also lost all four die rolls.
Round 1, I played Belcher. Game one I outraced a subpar, mulliganed hand. Game two I had a Mindbreak Trap for the first assault, then Mongrel/Rootwalla/Vengevine antics on turn two to outrace the recovery.
Round 2, Dredge. Game 1 I had turn one Hierarch/Rootwalla/Arrogant Wurm/Vengevine and outraced. Game 2 I had a Macabre and a Ratchet Bomb, which let my ground guys get through.
Round 3, Brian playing Welder Reanimator. I lose more matches to Brian than anyone ever, just because he always has something incredibly weird. Game 1 I stick a Survival on turn one on the draw, only to be wrecked by turn two Sundering Titan Welder antics before I can really do anything. Game 2 I Swords a Platinum Emperion, hardcast a Vengevine, and tutor up a Crypt. Vengevine trades with a hardcast Necrotic Ooze, then my Mongrel and Rootwalla get in a race with a Lodestone Golem. Annoying. I start losing the race, so I drop a topdecked Serenity, which is a turn away from blowing up my opponent's Golem and three lands. I swing in, comfortable at 8. Bad move. He hits me with the Golem, then hardcasts Triskelion and kills me with the rail gun. Oopsie.:) I knew the Necrotic Ooze combo was in here, and I actually died with a Pithing Needle in my hand, so I chalk this up to play error on my part. But still. When it's like 40 degrees in the shop, you struggle to predict hardcasted Triskelions.
Round 4, Markbris with BW Confidant. Game one he mulls to six and leads with Top, which is all I needed to stick a land, Enlightened Tutor up a Survival, stick a Diamond, and ramp into turn three Vengevine insanity.
Game 2 is what changed his mind about Vengevine. My opening hand was Windswept Heath, Forest, Elvish Spirit Guide, Vengevine, Vengevine, Basking Rootwalla, Survival of the Fittest. I look over at my friend Jerath, trying to get to 2-2 with a rogue homebrew Pyromancer's Ascension/Jace the Mind Sculptor deck.
"This hand's a card away (Wild Mongrel) from being awesome."
"Yes. Yes it is. You'll draw it."
"Nah. Discard's going to wreck me. Watch."
Mark Inquisitions me turn one and takes Survival. I draw Wild Mongrel.
I look at Jerath. "Oh. You were right."
I explode, and kill him in two turns.
So yeah. I'll miss this deck. Vengevine should be the one to get the axe. And I'll definitely still play it if it doesn't.
Also, ban Triskelion. Hardcast Lightning Bolts for :6: >> Format.
I actually inquisitioned you and dropped needle on survival off of a ritual, then you destroyed me with vengevienes,rootwalla, mongrel all played on turn 2. sweeeeetQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Oh yeah. Arctic card stores >> Short term memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by markbris
I did get that all out on my first turn, though. Spirit Guide.
You couldn't remove a creature. Non flying green one at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by markbris
He actually would have had to remove 4 creatures. And seeing as how he was taking 8 turn one, and at least 12 turn two, there wasn't a lot of time for him to do that.Quote:
You couldn't remove a creature. Non flying green one at that.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e122k_icon.jpg
What a teaser!
I believe it's a "teaser" in the same sense that sneaking behind you and ramming a horse-sized dildo in your unsuspecting butt is "foreplay".Quote:
Originally Posted by kikoo
lolzQuote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
Yeah, it was just an atempt at sarcasm.
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e122k_icon.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by kikoo
Attaching pics is sexier.
Hey, this doesn't say that Surival will be banned in Legacy. It is just an announcement of the banned list with a picture of SotF. It could just mean that Surival is being restricted in Vintage.
But seriously, it would be funny if people click on that picture Monday morning after selling their Survivals and it says: Legacy: No changes.
Is that a legitimate image, or did someone make it just for lols?
I really want that to happen. No changes would be an amazing thing on the part of the DCI, as it'd finally prove that either they really care for the format and not just asleep at the wheel, or they're literally asleep at the wheel and haven't looked at tournament results for six months.
-Matt
I seem to recall EVERY B&R announcement using an image of Survival. I'll have to look into this a bit.
Great. I spent $700 on Ebay putting together a deck designed with the current field in mind and I've got reservations at a hotel in KC for the next SCG in a few weeks. Now instead of being well-positioned against the meta, I'm going to spend all day getting my head caved in by Fish. We'll just call this 2 wasted days of vacation and a $1000 lesson in why I quit this game in the first place.
I can't say so with 100% certainty, but I think you might be right. I'm pretty sure the Survival art is always used for these DCI announcements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaran_X
Don't be so sure yet. It's still very possible that Wizards has seen all the ridiculous online hype about Survival getting possibly banned, and this is just their way of messing with us. Like others have said before, we just had something banned last time, so banning something this soon could be jumping the gun a bit. At the very worst, the rest of your deck is probably still worth a lot, since the UG/GW Survival variants are full of other cards useful for Legacy. If banned, Survival could possibly sell for about $20 a pop to EDH players.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeyMikey
What got banned on Sept 20th?Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkin Pac
Wasn't Mystical Tutor banned then? Or was it three months before that? Either way, it's too soon for another banning, if Wizards has any faith in players overcoming what's powerful at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAnimator
Not a good recall then...Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaran_X
http://media.wizards.com/images/magi...e109a_icon.jpg
What card was that from?Quote:
Originally Posted by CHaPuZaS
Edit--Frantic Search, never mind.
Can someone find one from an announcement where nothing changed?
If Survival isn't banned, they're has to be at least 1 dude out of the thousands that sold off their Survival playset for rock-bottom prices who is going to go postal at Wizard's HQ.
I'm still waiting for
Quote:
"Legacy: Tropical Island is banned."
Was Frantic Search banned at that B/R? I doubt so since MTutor was banned during Sep 2010 and FSearch was already banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
here's hoping they put SotF picture up and start off with:
"Legacy has been undergoing tremendous development blah blah, one of the cards we considered was SotF, it is a powerful tutor engine and broken blah blah, BUT we decided it was fair"
:D:D:D
/FacepalmQuote:
Originally Posted by Metalwalker
Mystical Tutor was banned during the Summer before the GP, Frantic search was unbanned in Vintage in Sept.
Even though I sold off my Survivals, I'll happily rebuy them and play Survival 'til the day I die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalwalker
Yeah pics of survival are tacked onto all these announcements of the DCI's...they think that little green goblin in the picture is the hawtness. So they post it and it's like their seal almost lol.
Frantic search has been banned since the formats' introduction as legacy. They unrestricted it in vintage on Sept. 20th. And it did nothing there to my knowledge since tolarian academy is restricted hardcore there.
More to the point though last banned/restricted announcement unbanned the card that was in the picture, this time the picture is of Survival. Since they obviously know about the implications of posting a picture of Survival on the announcement and then not actually banning it (infinite nerd rage) I'd have to say we'll be getting the format from 4 months ago as a Christmas present from Wizards. Hopefully they'll give us a new card or 2 to play with though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Ritual
Kind of a large pic, which is why I didn't use image tags. But it's awesome, so click on it:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/...28b3054f_b.jpg
Now this is pretty much amazing.
Ok, I had to look it up because I'm not much of a comic book guy, but from spending countless hours in comic book stores playing Magic I knew that was a take on an old cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH
http://www.google.com/url?source=img...6dKXtfPJo-XaNg