[Primer/Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by D0LPHY

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. Given that you control Bottomless Pit, Noetic Scales, and The Rack, you choose the order of their triggers (even on your opponent's turn). Thus, optimally:

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I looked it up and you are correct; I thought it was just the active player who got to do it..

603.3b. If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses.

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Originally Posted by D0LPHY

To be perfectly honest, I feel Null Brooch, Noetic Scales, Uba Mask and Bottled Cloister are all unplayable due to their mana cost.

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Reid Duke played Bottled Cloister in his deck at the weekend and finished 23rd so even the Pro's are trying out stuff. I would agree that too many high cost cards are bad for a Pox deck but I see no reason not to try things out?

I agree, 4 drops are a stretch for me, and this is even afyer moving to green splash and dropping big Pox (though I still like a singleton in mono black). Trust me I have been sorely tempted to play cards like Damnation and even Garruck, Relentless, but when you consider how much of your own land drop and tempo loss even to yourself happens just through Wasteland and Smallpox, those 4 drops start seeming like 6 drops waiting to be tossed to your own Liliana or Smallpox much less whatever discard they may have. Speed kills in Legacy.

Hey Dolphy, How's it going? Are you still running the same G/B list? Any changes? I was thinking about replacing the 2 Drops of Honey in my board with 2 more innocent Blood to complement the two in the main board. To me the problem with Drop and some of the creature sweepers and 3cost enchantment s is that with Deathrite Shaman, Confidant and Goyf and Stoneforge is that I don't even want those guys to untap. I want them dead ASAP. As far as the sweeper, two Toxic Deluge in the board has been good so far.

I know you dont like Loam in the build, but I was considering running one Loam supported by one Entomb and a Crucible of Worlds instead of a second Loam, in order to protect against Surgical effects. What do you think?

Also, against Elves and Burn is it worth it to board in Sphere of Resistance or would that slow you down more since they are cheap and may recover mana fater than you?

It seems like as long as you are playing a set of Dark Rits it seems viable to play one or two 4 drops. The one copy of Night of Soul's Betrayal seems like a nice addition in main deck. Its just yet another answer we have against that terrible new merfolk, I'm looking at you True Name!

Four cc cards is ok as midgame drops if you run no DR but lots of lands. Note that at that time it need midgame things, like Jace. Also play only two-three of those at most to minimize the likelyhood of have them flood your starting hand.

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Originally Posted by beez

Hey Dolphy, How's it going? Are you still running the same G/B list? Any changes? I was thinking about replacing the 2 Drops of Honey in my board with 2 more innocent Blood to complement the two in the main board. To me the problem with Drop and some of the creature sweepers and 3cost enchantment s is that with Deathrite Shaman, Confidant and Goyf and Stoneforge is that I don't even want those guys to untap. I want them dead ASAP. As far as the sweeper, two Toxic Deluge in the board has been good so far.

I know you dont like Loam in the build, but I was considering running one Loam supported by one Entomb and a Crucible of Worlds instead of a second Loam, in order to protect against Surgical effects. What do you think?

Also, against Elves and Burn is it worth it to board in Sphere of Resistance or would that slow you down more since they are cheap and may recover mana faster than you?

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It's going well, thanks. My list is basically static these days, with sideboarding plans being the main thing I'm trying to hone. Mind you, I haven't been playing too much since the Seattle Open in October. I'm fairly attached to my Drops, but I also run 4 Ensnaring Bridge, and top-decking Drop of Honey while they're waiting to find their answer to Bridge is pretty sweet. Innocent Blood could work, too. I really like Toxic Deluge, and have been tempted to try it (definitely superior to Infest or Perish), but Bridges are so good to me, I don't see any immediate need. I'm finding creature match-ups a non-issue; lately I've just been dying to combo a lot. I don't like Loam chiefly because of its interaction with Nether Void. It's nice to diversify against extraction effects wherever possible, but good players will just extract Wasteland or Mishra's Factory and achieve pretty much the same effect. As such, I don't feel it's worth the stretch.

Sphere of Resistance is a tough call. It's certainly great against Burn, but unless you're already committed to running it for combo, I wouldn't worry about it. The Burn matchup is so bad (and so rare) it's almost not worth taking into consideration when building your board. Elves is a tricky one. While it's certainly good, if you make Sphere your turn two play, you slow down your Hymns, Smallpoxes, Lilianas, Abrupt Decays, etc. Against a deck like elves, I want my board and hand disruption to be as aggressive as possible. As much as it might be a good idea to slow them down, they can just start swinging for 3 or 4 a turn, while you struggle to overcome your self-inflicted Thalia. Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking it. In my experience, the Elves match-up usually comes down to a well-timed Smallpox.

Yeah, I mainly have Sphere of Resistance in for Storm and Omnitell, but was wondering if it were applicable against elves or burn if sinkholes are kept in. Otherwise I would just make it Thorn against combo so I could at least hardcast a Nether Spirit through it.

I honesty think that Chains of Mephistopheles is an auto-include in the sb. Anything that involves brainstorm or draw effect is instantly affected. It slowed the game down for the opponents and allows us the opportunity to minimize the amount of solutions they have through draw effects. I tried it against an opponent with show and sneak, where the opponent cast show and tell. I dropped the Chains of Mephistopheles and he dropped griselbrand. At that point in time he realized that he couldn't do much with the amount of creature removal we packed and the amount of hand disruption we own.

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Originally Posted by D0LPHY

It's going well, thanks. My list is basically static these days, with sideboarding plans being the main thing I'm trying to hone. Mind you, I haven't been playing too much since the Seattle Open in October. I'm fairly attached to my Drops, but I also run 4 Ensnaring Bridge, and top-decking Drop of Honey while they're waiting to find their answer to Bridge is pretty sweet. Innocent Blood could work, too. I really like Toxic Deluge, and have been tempted to try it (definitely superior to Infest or Perish), but Bridges are so good to me, I don't see any immediate need. I'm finding creature match-ups a non-issue; lately I've just been dying to combo a lot. I don't like Loam chiefly because of its interaction with Nether Void. It's nice to diversify against extraction effects wherever possible, but good players will just extract Wasteland or Mishra's Factory and achieve pretty much the same effect. As such, I don't feel it's worth the stretch.

Sphere of Resistance is a tough call. It's certainly great against Burn, but unless you're already committed to running it for combo, I wouldn't worry about it. The Burn matchup is so bad (and so rare) it's almost not worth taking into consideration when building your board. Elves is a tricky one. While it's certainly good, if you make Sphere your turn two play, you slow down your Hymns, Smallpoxes, Lilianas, Abrupt Decays, etc. Against a deck like elves, I want my board and hand disruption to be as aggressive as possible. As much as it might be a good idea to slow them down, they can just start swinging for 3 or 4 a turn, while you struggle to overcome your self-inflicted Thalia. Then again, maybe I'm over-thinking it. In my experience, the Elves match-up usually comes down to a well-timed Smallpox.

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I guess Drop of Honey is really good with Ensnaring Bridge. Too bad my deck isnt as geared as yours for running Bridge.

so, I've been considering getting into Legacy for a while, removal being pretty much my favorite thing ever (my heart belongs to doom blade), Pox has been one of the decks I've thought about the most. I've felt drawn to Control for a while but I've never really felt like a counterspell kind of person.

I have to ask: How new pilot friendly is Pox? Also how budget friendly? Those Lilianas and Chains worry my wallet

Liliana, wasteland and sinkhole are expensive cards of you at not planning to get fetch and SDT.

All those legends rare are optional and not necessity depending your build. (Eg. Nether void and rack is not the best compo :p )

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Originally Posted by gibbousm

so, I've been considering getting into Legacy for a while, removal being pretty much my favorite thing ever (my heart belongs to doom blade), Pox has been one of the decks I've thought about the most. I've felt drawn to Control for a while but I've never really felt like a counterspell kind of person.

I have to ask: How new pilot friendly is Pox? Also how budget friendly? Those Lilianas and Chains worry my wallet

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Originally Posted by gibbousm

so, I've been considering getting into Legacy for a while, removal being pretty much my favorite thing ever (my heart belongs to doom blade), Pox has been one of the decks I've thought about the most. I've felt drawn to Control for a while but I've never really felt like a counterspell kind of person.

I have to ask: How new pilot friendly is Pox? Also how budget friendly? Those Lilianas and Chains worry my wallet

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if you're concern is the budget then mono black is the way to go..

there are two paths you can choose from in mono black..the land destruction variant or the discard variant..

the land destruction variant is more expensive because it uses sinkholes, wastelands and sometimes nether voids as well..

the discard variant is cheaper but not necessarily weaker..

wastelands aren't as important in the discard variant as it is in the land destruction variant..so you can replace that with swamps or utility lands..

bottomless pit and necrogen mist are the most common budget replacements for liliana..

Only two ways? :-)

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

Only two ways? :-)

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There's 4 last I checked when you read up on Pox itself. There is a creature HATE variant where all discard and land kill are replaced with removal. Extra Ratchet Bombs and Powder Kegs anyone? Wanna go back to old school with Nevinyyral's Disk? :cool: Some cards are in the form of creatures themselves like Shriekmaw (old fav) and Gatekeeper of Malakir. It's the weakest variant since not all legacy decks pack huge armies.

The 4th and best variant imo is the hybrid variant that hymns to tourach's your hand, sinkholes your land, and Innocent Bloods your threat. It's the ultimate topdeck killer. Discard variant won't save you from top decked solutions, but when that 2-3 mana spell you just top decked can't be casted, you realize how super strong it is. I noticed some people write this 'hybrid' version off as the LD version of Pox just cause of Sink/Waste but truth be told, when your 1 cmc spells get hymned/Duress/Inquisition away, this form of Pox becomes very fearsome. :eek:

At the end of the day, Pox is a prison deck. Blast the board clean, and fight your opponent with no cards, lands, or creatures. They have to fight under the same conditions, only YOUR deck was designed to combat this worst case scenario. We are the ones to survive the Zombie Apocalypse! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by OmniStrata

At the end of the day, Pox is a prison deck. Blast the board clean, and fight your opponent with no cards, lands, or creatures. They have to fight under the same conditions, only YOUR deck was designed to combat this worst case scenario. We are the ones to survive the Zombie Apocalypse! :laugh:

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i can't agree with you more..pox seeks to put both players in a hungry game state with no creatures, no lands, and no hand..cursed scroll and liliana both increases our strength in the top deck war..

I posted this deck on mtg salvation, but can put it here too for completness sake.

4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
3 Nihilith
4 gravecrawler
2 phyrexian metamorph
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Pox
2 reanimate
1 black sun's zenith
1 Sensei's divining top
1 Sickening Dreams
3 Darkblast
3 liliana of the veil

22 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

I posted this deck on mtg salvation, but can put it here too for completness sake.

4 Bloodghast
3 Tombstalker
3 Nihilith
4 gravecrawler
2 phyrexian metamorph
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Pox
2 reanimate
1 black sun's zenith
1 Sensei's divining top
1 Sickening Dreams
3 Darkblast
3 liliana of the veil

22 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage

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Not sure about those phyrexian metamorphs. They are pretty much 3 mana tarmogoyf/shaman/shardless/(something else pretty dork).

If I may suggest, replace them with liliana/dakmor salvage/pox/cursed scroll.

Yeah, they need testing. But they also copy artifacts: jitte, vital (nah...) batterskull SDT.
They even the field. Look forward to getting them!

New to the deck. Slowly getting the cards for the deck (will be a few months), but this is my current list:

/Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual

/Permanents
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Liliana of the Veil

/Land
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Feedback is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by astormbrewing

New to the deck. Slowly getting the cards for the deck (will be a few months), but this is my current list:

/Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual

/Permanents
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Liliana of the Veil

/Land
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Feedback is appreciated.

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good day astormbrewing..
your list looks really solid, i think it should do well..
i assume you don't have the 4th sinkhole..i suggest you start saving up for it because its really important to the deck..i'm not sold on the haunted platemail, i've used it before but i felt it was too clunky, but thats just me..many players swear by it..its not a bad card, i guess its just a matter of preference..if i were to try it again, i'd probably run 2 or maybe even a singleton of it..4 mana is too exhorbitant for a pox deck especially when you have 5 4cmc cards in the deck..in my humble opinion..

you might wanna add another urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in your deck in lieu of a swamp..there's a reason why majority of successful pox decks run 4..but i think 3 will do..

overall, i think your list looks fine..

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Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag

good day astormbrewing..
your list looks really solid, i think it should do well..
i assume you don't have the 4th sinkhole..i suggest you start saving up for it because its really important to the deck..i'm not sold on the haunted platemail, i've used it before but i felt it was too clunky, but thats just me..many players swear by it..its not a bad card, i guess its just a matter of preference..if i were to try it again, i'd probably run 2 or maybe even a singleton of it..4 mana is too exhorbitant for a pox deck especially when you have 5 4cmc cards in the deck..in my humble opinion..

you might wanna add another urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in your deck in lieu of a swamp..there's a reason why majority of successful pox decks run 4..but i think 3 will do..

overall, i think your list looks fine..

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I took out the 4th Sinkhole for a Crucible of Worlds, so I can repeatedly Wasteland my opponent. Having that option seemed more appealing than 1 more one-time LD.

I'm not sure how Haunted Plate Mail will play out, but I want to try it out.

Haha, I was just going to say how HPM is decent but I'd take out 1 for the 4th Sinkhole.

After thinking about it and talking to .dk, there could be a tension between a full set of Hymns and a full set of Sinkholes.

What does Sinkhole do? It strands cards in your opponent's hand. If you then play Hymn, you have a high chance of hitting cards that they can't reasonably play anyways. Now, Sinkhole is still great because Legacy decks are greedy, but I'd rather play a Crucible to loop Wastelands in the mid/late game after I've played a lot of discard.

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Originally Posted by astormbrewing

After thinking about it and talking to .dk, there could be a tension between a full set of Hymns and a full set of Sinkholes.

What does Sinkhole do? It strands cards in your opponent's hand. If you then play Hymn, you have a high chance of hitting cards that they can't reasonably play anyways. Now, Sinkhole is still great because Legacy decks are greedy, but I'd rather play a Crucible to loop Wastelands in the mid/late game after I've played a lot of discard.

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Bad mindset. The old argument was that you don't need discard if you're land killing because 'they can't cast their spells'. Then they top deck a single land and you're screwed. The other old argument is you don't need land kill if they're top decking since they probably have all the mana they need on the board anyway.

THIS IS FALSE. You, as a Pox player don't want them to have any chance at a lucky top deck whatsoever. I've died too many times in scenarios where I didn't make them discard their overpriced spells and blam, they top deck a land... However, some other builds of Pox that don't run hymn instead run more targeted discard to prevent the cmc overlap of Sinkhole / Hymn. DENY THEM EVERYTHING!

"Dedicated discard decks can be weak to opposing topdecks. Dedicated land destruction decks can lack defense. However, Pox—both the deck and the card—is the epitome of the resource denial strategy because it attacks all resources at once." - Reid Duke, Introducing Mono-B Pox in Legacy

I've tested focused versions of Pox using only discard or LD in a varied meta. It was a poor turnout. Damn lucky topdecks... Though it was probably 40% creature based, the others were hybrids or combo / control.

Aside from Dredge/Loam/Graveyard based decks, the deny everything approach I've found works best in blind scenarios where you don't know what you're walking into. That and burn, Pox hates burn... :frown:

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Originally Posted by astormbrewing

New to the deck. Slowly getting the cards for the deck (will be a few months), but this is my current list:

/Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual

/Permanents
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Liliana of the Veil

/Land
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Feedback is appreciated.

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Go for 4 Urborg => It makes a pretty decent hand with tourach/sinkhole/mishra/wasteland/Urborg keepable which could otherwise be a dangerous starting hand if you have a swamp instead of him. Latter you will discard multiple copies of it anyway, either on the +1 of Liliana or on a resolved smallpox. -2 swamps +2 Urborg

I prefer "noetic scales" over "Night of souls' betrayal". Far better synergy with the deck. And I usually tend to lose to bigger threat than a bunch of X/1. Mishra's factory and cursed scroll are here to take care of them but fail to handle Goyf, KOTR, angel token etc... Not to mention the very "cute" synergy with liliana. +1 Noetic scales -1 Soul

HPM could be good but like other forum members I am convinced that reaching 4 mana with Pox could be very long. Nether spirit could be a good replacement and has a very good synergy with smallpox (not so nice with noetic scales but I guess if you have reached that point in a game, you are pretty much in a good shape). So maybe +1 cursed + 2 nether - 3 HPM

Have fun.

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Originally Posted by astormbrewing

New to the deck. Slowly getting the cards for the deck (will be a few months), but this is my current list:

/Spells
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Dark Ritual

/Permanents
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Haunted Plate Mail
4 Liliana of the Veil

/Land
4 Mishra's Factory
15 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

/Sideboard
3 Duress
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Extirpate
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Pithing Needle
2 Toxic Deluge

Feedback is appreciated.

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-1 HPM +1 Nether Spirit. Really I would run the HPM as a singleton.

Anyone have any luck with Tombstalkers or other big dudes out of the board to be a clock in the combo match-ups? I'm taking Loam-Pox for another spin soon, and I'm currently planning on 3 Tombstalker and 4 Sphere of Resistance as my Anti-combo Plan. I run Chalice main. Any stories to tell or words of wisdom relating to sideboard fat?

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Originally Posted by ntropy

Anyone have any luck with Tombstalkers or other big dudes out of the board to be a clock in the combo match-ups? I'm taking Loam-Pox for another spin soon, and I'm currently planning on 3 Tombstalker and 4 Sphere of Resistance as my Anti-combo Plan. I run Chalice main. Any stories to tell or words of wisdom relating to sideboard fat?

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I like two Toxic Deluge in the side. With Chalice and no one drops look out for Daze.

After reading through some of this thread, I'm converting my mono-b discard deck to a discard heavy pox deck. I'd like suggestions about how to fine tune it.


//Discard (14)

3x Raven's Crime
3x Thoughtseize
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach

//Artifacts/Enchantments (11)

4x The Rack
4x Shrieking Affliction
3x Cursed Scroll

//Control (11)

4x Smallpox
3x Pox
4x Liliana of the Veil

//Mana (24)

4x Dark Ritual
20x Swamp


Some concerns I have about the deck as it stands, and some areas I'd like your advice:

1. Is 20x swamp enough land? Or will pox effects tax me too severely. What's optimal when playing with dark ritual? Bump it to 22 or so?

2. How important are the inclusion of Mishras + Urborg + Dakmor Salvage? I think I want to add these. Is there any reason not to? Again, what's optimal land with these additions? Something like 4x Mishras, 3x Urborg, 2x Dakmor, and 12x basic swamp + 4x Dark Ritual (total of 25 mana source). Is this still too light, and I shouldn't really give Mishras full consideration as a mana source?

3. Am I running too heavy on the 1-drop discard effects? I used to rely very heavily on Raven's Crime as a re-occuring source of discard. But that was before I ran the pox effects. Seems like re-occuring sources of discard are less important because my total discard effects actually increase with a pox package. Drop to 2x? I really like having a high likelihood of a turn 1 drop that reveals the opponents hand, and having 7x turn 1 plays that do this has been incredible, but is this overkill?

4. Is 3x Pox to many? The discard variant of pox plays less of a control style, and more of a blitz the opponent to the ground as quick as possible. And cutting a third of an opponents life helps that along. But it still feels like a weaker slot. Similarly, running 3x Cursed Scroll seems possibly too many as well. What are my weak slots?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!

Rituals, and similar one shot mana, count as 0.5 mana source.

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Originally Posted by Galroth

4x The Rack
4x Shrieking Affliction

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I'm not a fan of going the Rack/Affliction route, but if you do, a full 8 pieces seems like too many. You don't need to win fast. Focus more on preventing your opponent from doing anything. Winning in a traditional mono black Pox deck is fairly incidental.

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Originally Posted by Galroth

Some concerns I have about the deck as it stands, and some areas I'd like your advice:

1. Is 20x swamp enough land? Or will pox effects tax me too severely. What's optimal when playing with dark ritual? Bump it to 22 or so?

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When I played x3 Pox in my old build, I was running 23 lands and x4 Chrome Mox. Pox is powerful, but it does hit you hard as well. I think if you're playing multiples, then you really want some non-land black mana sources.

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Originally Posted by Galroth

2. How important are the inclusion of Mishras + Urborg + Dakmor Salvage? I think I want to add these. Is there any reason not to? Again, what's optimal land with these additions? Something like 4x Mishras, 3x Urborg, 2x Dakmor, and 12x basic swamp + 4x Dark Ritual (total of 25 mana source). Is this still too light, and I shouldn't really give Mishras full consideration as a mana source?

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Mishra's Factory is very important. It will often serve as your primary win condition. The inclusion of Factory goes back to my point about not running the full 8 Rack/Affliction; use those slots for more disruption/removal and allow your win condition to be incidental. Urborg is worthy of 3-4 slots if you're running Wasteland (which you generally should be), as it allows you to play 8 colorless lands and still reliably produce BBB. As for Dakmor Salvage, I'm not a fan. A typical Pox mana base is something like this:

13 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland

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Originally Posted by Galroth

3. Am I running too heavy on the 1-drop discard effects? I used to rely very heavily on Raven's Crime as a re-occuring source of discard. But that was before I ran the pox effects. Seems like re-occuring sources of discard are less important because my total discard effects actually increase with a pox package. Drop to 2x? I really like having a high likelihood of a turn 1 drop that reveals the opponents hand, and having 7x turn 1 plays that do this has been incredible, but is this overkill?

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1-drop discard is nice, but Thoughtseize is painful, especially if you're leaning as heavily on Pox as you are. Now, if you're seizing prior to casting Pox, it isn't so bad, but the later game Thoughtseize (after resolving a Pox) is significant. I'd swap Thoughtseize out for Innocent Blood.

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Originally Posted by Galroth

4. Is 3x Pox to many? The discard variant of pox plays less of a control style, and more of a blitz the opponent to the ground as quick as possible. And cutting a third of an opponents life helps that along. But it still feels like a weaker slot. Similarly, running 3x Cursed Scroll seems possibly too many as well. What are my weak slots?

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Weak slots seem to be Thoughtseize, The Rack, and Shrieking Affliction. Cursed Scroll is solid, and x3 is fairly common, but I personally like to diversify threats a bit more. I also really like Phyrexian Totem in builds that lean more heavily on Pox, as it provides a non-land black mana source and once you're opponent's hand is empty and they have no creatures, the totem swings hard.

A list that relies heavily on pox need two things; lots of lands, and spells that are cheap to cast.
This mean at least of 23 lands that provide black mana. It's what found is the minimum that provide a good flow of land drawing.
Second, spells that are cheap to cast does not include Phyrexian totem, but do include nether spirit and Blood Ghasts.

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Originally Posted by ntropy

Anyone have any luck with Tombstalkers or other big dudes out of the board to be a clock in the combo match-ups? I'm taking Loam-Pox for another spin soon, and I'm currently planning on 3 Tombstalker and 4 Sphere of Resistance as my Anti-combo Plan. I run Chalice main. Any stories to tell or words of wisdom relating to sideboard fat?

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Tombstalker is a very good creature against non-white decks (Swords to Plowshares). I usually maindeck it, as it is good against a lot of decks: Tempo Thresh, Aggro, Combo. But if you want to sideboard it, that should also work. Apart from that, your deck (of which I do not know the exact list) seems OK post-board against combo, between Chalice, Sphere, Liliana, Wasteland-Loam and Hymn, which I guess you all play.

Apart from the combo matchup, I like the fat main deck: say 2 Tombstalker, 1 Gigapede and 1 Worm Harvest. All of these synergise pretty well with the Loam-engine and Smallpox and all of these are pretty hard to remove/shut off permanently.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

A list that relies heavily on pox need two things; lots of lands, and spells that are cheap to cast.
This mean at least of 23 lands that provide black mana. It's what found is the minimum that provide a good flow of land drawing.
Second, spells that are cheap to cast does not include Phyrexian totem, but do include nether spirit and Blood Ghasts.

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By no means did I think my old Pox list was optimal, but I thought Phyrexian Totem was fine; I ran it in place of a third Cursed Scroll. My favorite opening was Swamp, Dark Ritual, Phyrexian Totem, Inquisition of Kozilek (play) / Innocent Blood (draw). I was also running Chrome Mox, which I really liked, as it made mid-late Dark Rituals a little more useful (as imprints) and provided mana sources that didn't get sac'd to Pox.

In general, I don't think that the heavy Pox build is the right choice right now. The format is so tight for the most part (meaning that the decks the represent the majority of the meta are all very focused and running near maximum efficiency), that Smallpox seems to be as good, if not better than, Pox.

Thanks Beez and Tourach. I run one Toxic Deluge main, and 4 E.Plagues, 2 Deluge, 2 Dystopia in the board. I'm loaded for bear in the sideboard because I don't run I.Blood in the main (Chalice) Abrupt Decay takes it's place. I don't think I'd bring the 'Stalkers in against anything with STP, they're just to provide a clock vs. Combo so they have fewer turns to top-deck out. I'm happy with Nether Spirit, Syphon Life, and Mishra's Factory vs. anything else. I like Worm Harvest and Gigapede as cards, but I don't think I can reliably get to 5 mana. I don't even run any 4-drops. Today I'm going to do some fiddling to see if I like how the deck plays with the Stalkers boarded in. (Essentially I'll be Goldfishing game 2 vs. Sneak and Show) I like the concept, but I hate running cards I don't want to discard to Lili or Smallpox, neither of which I want to wait a turn on in that MU. We'll see. I'll report back. I might cut an E.Plague for the 4th Stalker if I like 'em. For reference, here's my list as it stands this morning:

4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Mox Diamond
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Sinkhole
2 Life from the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Syphon Life
1 Nether Spirit
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Engineered Plague
3 Tombstalker
2 Dystopia
2 Toxic Deluge

Thanks!

Long since I saw Dystopia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ntropy

Anyone have any luck with Tombstalkers or other big dudes out of the board to be a clock in the combo match-ups? I'm taking Loam-Pox for another spin soon, and I'm currently planning on 3 Tombstalker and 4 Sphere of Resistance as my Anti-combo Plan. I run Chalice main. Any stories to tell or words of wisdom relating to sideboard fat?

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I have 2 Tombys and they rock. Not only against combo, but also against RUG Delver and any other deck that lacks stronger removal. Kills very fast and if your enemy is top decking, they have little time.

Hey guys, I have been testing this as a main 60. I like the tops and an extra crucible taking some mana slots up. Also I feel the Crucible + Wasteland Soft-lock allows a cut to three Sinkholes.

Lands:

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
9 Swamp

Enchantments:

1 Night of Souls' Betrayal

Artifacts:

3 Cursed Scroll
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Planeswalker:
4 Liliana of the Veil

Spells:

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Innocent Blood
1 Pox
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Dark Ritual

Creatures:

2 Nether Spirit


Any thoughts or comments? Thanks!

You need fetch lands of dredge abilities to run sensei's top. At all.

Sleight

You need more land. I would only do 2 Tops.

With 1 Pox, 4 Smallpox, 4 Wastelands, you're going to be running out of mana sources at 21 land. Pox wants supposedly a minimum of 18 permanent Black mana sources. This number is lowered I think depending on your Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth count.

I'd suggest 1 Dredger [Dakmor Salvage] and 1 Fetchland [I like Verdant Catacombs as a preference].

Remove 1 SDT & 1 Crucible, or 2 SDT, or 1 SDT & 1 Nether Spirit.

My older build ran 2 Nether Spirits with a single Spinning Darkness to fix double Graveyard Spirit problems. Now I run 1 Nether Spirit and 1 Haunted Platemail and never run into any creature graveyard clogs.

That and a 6/6 Nether spirit is freaking awesome.