Cut Massacre and some number of Chains and put in 3/4 Dread of night.Quote:
Originally Posted by elijah
Also, 2 LDV main seems a lot, I'd play a second Preordain in place of the 2nd LDV.
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Cut Massacre and some number of Chains and put in 3/4 Dread of night.Quote:
Originally Posted by elijah
Also, 2 LDV main seems a lot, I'd play a second Preordain in place of the 2nd LDV.
Would help to know what metagame are you building for and what your current SB plans look like.Quote:
Originally Posted by elijah
4 Chain of Vapor, 3 Abrupt Decay and 2 Massacre... you are somewhat overloaded on (spot)removal. For the D&T matchup, 2 massacre and 2-3 spot removal is enough. Chain of Vapor is dead against Miracles, 3 decay is fine here. I would start out by cutting 2x Chain of Vapor.Quote:
Originally Posted by elijah
First of all i would replace the second limvault with a grim tutor in the main.
By the way,i'm going to attend eternal prague in 2 weeks,who is also going to join?
Let's smash some faces poeple ;D
This guy cleary does not know how and when to use a comma.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Nonetheless, I am also attending this event. ANT has to win this.
ontopic: I never liked LDV in ANT since it creates card disadvantage and does not interact with PiF or LED-cracking shenanigans. If you don't have a Grim Tutor then I would go with
1 Top > 4 Preordain build > LDV build. But all in all, at least 2x Preordain.
@Cabal Therapy:
We are going there together boi. of course you are joining :D
You can also try out 2 ad nauseam like i did during BoM.
It's still great and i'm going to take both of them to prague as well.
Depends on the metagame of course.
I sadly won't be going. But will, of course, be rooting for Team Tendrils :smile:
I don't suppose there's going to be coverage?
I'm currently lying low with Storm. There has been a saturation of Miracles and BUG delver at my local meta (shocking, I know). I enjoy playing against those matchups, but not at this density. So I've been picking up Death and Taxes and trying to get better with that deck. Slowly, stuff like goblins and 4-c loam is starting to creep in and push away these decks.
In a few weeks, when everyone at my LGS has relaxed around me, thinking I will only ever lead on plains, go, I will pull out storm again :cool:
Because a lot of people asked me about my young pyromancer tech during the last couple of weeks and when he should be boarded in:
Here is a list of the top tier1 decks where pyromancer gets boardet in (or not):
Team America yes !(wasn't sure before but my testings were successful)
Elves no
Sneak show no
Miracles yes
Deathblade no
Shardless bug no
Death&taxes no
Rug delver yes
Uwr delver yes
I've already increased my pyromancer count up to 4,definately will bring this deck to eternal prague.
(My other options are elves,burg-delver and tes but those decks are undoubtful worse in my opinion)
Is it really advisable to bring Pyromancer in against patriot delver? Even if they board all the Plowshares out, Bolt is still pretty good reach even if they arent expecting a man-plan. Moreover, even if Bolt wasnt troublesome enough (and im assuming it hasnt been because youre also recommending it against RUG), patriot's Batterskull seems tough since Pyromancer takes a turn or two to get going. I feel like for that plan to work you have to either have the Therapy right after the Pyromancer or just have them not have Daze and the like to slow you down, which seems like a lot to ask.
Good point wonderpreaux:
When i started to push pyromancer in the sideboard i tested him against every single deck in the entire format,starting from rug delver over goblins to dredge to get a conclusion concerning his power as fast as possible.my Buddy "cabal therapy" (so called here on thesource) supported me alot with my testings,he was convinced of pyromancer pretty soon.
against uwr delver:
This deck has around 6-7 removal spells in the mainboard,postboard maybe around 3 if they fear xantid swarm (which i don't have in my 75 for several reason)
So there are 2 options:
Option1: you play discard,take your opponents bolt and cast pyromancer through a hand full of spell pierces,pyroblasts and flusterstoms,even meddling mage.who ares about meddling mage when you can overrun him?
Batterskull is still an issue and the only thing you are about,it should be discarded with cabal therapy(+flashback)
Also bring in some number of decays to deal with annoying permanents (it's getting real grindy).
You can also double your decay/pyromancer with infernal tutor,don't forget about that.
Option2:
You don't board pyromancer in g2 and see if our opponent has any removal spell left in his deck.
If thats the case,surprise him with pyromancer in g3.
Made top 16 of the SCG Invitational this past weekend with a list very similar to my list that top 4ed the previous Invitational:
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
2 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrils of Agony
SB
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ad Nauseam
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Massacre
2 Thoughtseize
1 Tropical Island
2nd Past in Flames was awesome. I killed a Shardless BUG player in a game by casting 3 PiF's (flashing one back) and cantripping like 10 times. He had 2 active Deathrites and put me down to 4 life on the turn I won.
I really like this list. Empty makes it potentially faster against Delver decks. 2 Past in Flames helps against discard. 2 Grim Tutors make the deck more consistent with PiF and less likely to lose to never finding a tutor. Not running Ad Nauseam main opens up a ton of options.
On a different note, we must be doing something right because every TES player is dropping their Silences for discard and is adding Cabal Rituals to their deck. They are now basically ANT with a bad manabase, very little shuffling, Chrome Moxes (gross), and Burning Wishes and can't realistically win with PiF out of their SB. PiF Storm with the Empty option is definitely where you want to be in this metagame imo. Ad Nauseam is awful against Delver which is what every good player is playing right now.
Gratulations on your finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7
I guess, you are speaking of the US meta, where every one plays Delver/Blade-decks.
I would argue that Ad Nauseam is aweful against Delver (Ad Nauseam is great against BUG; they use discard and you can topdeck a nice AdN and start from there) since it enables fast wins. Indeed, it gets worse as the game moves on but can be used as a "draw-some-cards-eot"-spell.
And I would argue that every good plays Delver-decks. Tempo strategy is a valid one but at some point I would say that this card (Delver) is slightly overrated. Miracles is undoubtably the better deck. Furthermore, I expect storm players to be better than the ones turning their creatures sideways. :cool:
I absolutely agree that Miracles is the better deck. Everyone and their mom is playing Delver in the US though. I prefer PiF over Ad Naus to rebuild after discard when the discard deck is playing a fast clock, whereas I have Ad Naus in the SB for slow discard decks like Jund. Ad Naus is about the same speed kill as PiF in our deck, and Empty is faster than both giving this deck a faster win con against Delver main.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
Congratulations, high5 !
Seems like a rock-solid deck you have.
What about the 3 discardspells in your sideboard,do you replace probe with them against decks with a lot of countermagic?would be a total of 10 discard spells postboard.
Or do you just switch duress <-> thoughtseize against hatebear-decks?
Thanks! I usually replace discard spells in the main depending on the matchup rather than going up to a full 10. For slower decks like Shardless BUG post-SB the Thoughtseizes are better than Therapies because you can more reliably hit Hymn and random annoying permanents like Scavenging Ooze. Tseizes/Inquisition also come in against bear decks like you said. I board out the 2nd PiF for an Inquisition against RUG Delver (going up to 8 discard). Against other combo decks I cut a basic Island for another discard spell. It depends on the matchup, but I generally like Tseize a lot post-SB against non-Delver decks because of the diversity of hate that people board in.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Storm Padawan here. What's the SB plan vs RUG Delver for builds without ETW and Carpet of Flowers? I'm currently playing 7 MD discard. Is it acceptable to just board in some chain of vapors?
Cheers
It's usually very minimal what RUG delver has to bring in when it comes to relevant permanents. Probably 1-2 grafdigger's cages if anything at all. Usually their sideboard plan against us revolves around a couple of flusterstorms, a few surgical extractions and possibly vendilion clique. And yeah, perhaps 1-2 cage. I personally wouldn't bring in more than 1 CoV here. It's possible to win through a cage and it's not certain they have it. Other good sideboard cards against them include young pyromancer, an 8th or 9th discard spell (life loss from thoughtseize is not irrelevant however) and carpet of flowers. :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
Interesting that nobody has carpet of flowers in his sideboard especially now with a ton of blue decks around .
This card should be good right now,however it's just an better ritual after all which is good to have to play through daze and other softcounter but good pilots will do that anyway.
And most importantly,there is no foil version available :D
Maybe time to say goodbye to that one.
Carpet usually feels like either a win more or a dead card for me. I've never had it be clutch in winning a game. I do however enjoy playing it first main phase then activating it second main to play a cantrip and having a judge called every time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hello, storm gurus! I've been following these forums for a while now, but only just decided to register and actually join the discussion, mainly because I'd like some input on the list I'll be bringing to a local ~50 man tournament next week, as well as some general advice.
Main
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Preordain
4 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
Side
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Dread of Night
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Karakas
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Empty the Warrens
4 undecided
The things I'm not certain about is if I want to maybe cut a preordain to run 7 discard main, since blue decks are really popular right now, and discard can be a bottle neck, as well as what to put in my remaining sideboard slots, as well as possibly replacing empty, since it hardly ever gets brought in anyway. Things I've considered running in the open side slots are xantid swarm, bob, carpet of flowers, young pyromancer (never tested them in this deck though, so not sure how well I'd get them to work) and surgical extraction, but I really have no idea as of right now, especially since the expected meta is pretty diverse, slightly favoring all sort of blue decks (though I guess that's just how legacy works), so any advice would be great!
Either way, I look forward to adding to the discussion in the future!
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcind
your list looks very solid and obviously should work well. 6 or 7 discard spells are not of great difference since you have the playset Preordain to dig for them, even in a blue meta (which meta isn't blue?)
SB: If your are worried about Show and Tell-based decks then I would recommend running 3 Swarms. If not then you could play Young Pyromancer (he is a beast against Miracles) 3 times and maybe cut the one Therapy to include 2 copies of Extraction/Flusterstorm if you want to have at least a chance against Reanimator. Nonetheless, your board looks solid, too, however I am not a fan of Karakas.
The maindeck is simply adam prosack's 16-cantrip build which i don't really like because its slow (ant should be a 2,8 deck and this list turns it into a 3,5 deck.i'm talking about the turn you normally go off)
However it is very resilient so i would recommend it in a metagame we had during GP Denver with a ton of BGx Decks.
Sideboard:
If you play such one-offs like 1 karakas against sneakshow or reanimator grim tutor would be a nice tool to find them as quickly as possible (cantripping to seek the 1-off seems not the way to go)
Hello all :)
I'm returning to playing magic after a 2.5 year hiatus, and am planning to attend a legacy FNM-type event on Tuesday. The last deck I played, and the only deck I have built that seems not to have changed too much in the interim, is ANT, so I thought it seemed the obvious thing to take. I wondered if I could ask some advice about sideboarding? Obviously it's a totally unknown meta, but also is unlikely to be especially high-powered. What I was thinking of taking was--
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Burning Wish
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre Pact
2 Pyroclasm
Ancestral Vision comes in against control decks where the game is likely to go long and hand-refilling would be useful. Burning Wish comes in (and one Infernal tutor comes out) against decks siding Surgical Extraction, so as never to be in a totally unwinnable position. Empty the Warrens comes in where speed is useful and sweepers aren't an issue. Massacre Pact and Pyroclasm against hatebears and swarms, Chain of Vapor against other non-creature-permanent-based hate.
Does this sound at all reasonable? Mainboard I'm currently playing a pretty unremarkable non-Grim-Tutor build except for one SDT and two Volcanic Island (to help pay for PiF and potentially Burning Wish).
Thanks for any thoughts anyone can offer!
What the hell is massacre pact?
Must be a yu-gi-oh card,haven't heard about it so far.
Ancestral vision is actually terrible. If you don't have it in play turn 1 is is completely dead, and even then it's not lie till turn 5. Additionally waiting till turn 5 to go off seems terrible against really any deck as they start getting cards in play we can't deal with, whether Lilliana jace or counterbalance.
Kai> I guess i wanted to talk about Slaughter Pact ^^
Yeah - I meant Slaughter Pact, but had the Italian version (Patto del Massacro) in front of me.
trollking21, thanks for the advice on Ancestral Visions. I could try and borrow Dark Confidants before Tuesday. Failing that, is there anything else that would be useful for slow, grindy matchups, or would be good against discard?
Young Pyromancer. There has been written quite a bit about its merits during the previous 10 pages or so :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by siqatzi
For people with big balls:
Try out Talrand, Sky Summoner :D
Does basically the same as pyromancer but i mean:
He produces little Drakes how cool is that <3
If i get a foil talrand until eternal prag tournament i'll put it in my sb just because i can.
Thanks, that looks like very cool tech! I'll order a playset and read over the last 10 pages of this thread :)Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
I guess we need a small revision of the primer, especially regarding sideboard options and MUs.Quote:
Originally Posted by siqatzi
Stupid question, but I'm new to storm what is TNT storm. How is it different then ant.
Pros / Cons?
TNT stands for Team Nijmegen Tendrils I believe. It is an ANT deck that plays burning wish and no maindeck win conditions.
Because of the nature of this deck it has a better ad nauseam then regular ANT but past in flames is worse because you need a Wish but you can not flashback wish.
Which is better to start with? My guess is the ant version.
Start and stick with ANT.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsey
Thats the list Im planning on bringing next suday to the monthly legacy leage of Madrid.
Last month I won with ANT this same list just
-2 preordain
-1 therapy
-1 badland
-2 scalding
+2 sensei
+1 duress
+3 misty
side:
-3 Young
+1 Tendrills
-1 xantid
+2 carpet
+1 empty
With the Price money I got 3 foil Young fireguys and Im going to play them in the next event.
I haves some questions about the side of them:
Spells:45
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ad Nauseam
Lands:15
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Badland
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:15
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Massacre
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Xantid Swarm
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Tendrills of agony
1 Bruning Wish
Thats the deck now I wanna put them in vs BUG tempo (also shardles?), UWR delver (also uwr stoneblade control), RUG delver and miracles.
Now i have a problema on how to sideboeard with the pyromancers.
that is what i have been dooing until now.
VS bug side in the BW taking out a preordain
VS uwr side in 2 decays for 2 preordain may be 3
vs rug side nothing (before I sided the carpets) now i would change ant for empty
vs miracles side in the 3 decays 1 tendrills 1 burning sidding out 1 preordain 1 led 1 pif 1 infernal (and one island or led)
Now how would you recomend to side with the red guy?
this can also be used as a guide on general sidding.
Thanks a lot
Okay lets start.
With your decklist i would board like this:
Against RUG Delver:
+3 Young Pyromancer
+1 Empty the wareens
-1 ad nauseam
- 3 preordain
Against Bug delver:
+3 young Pyromancer
+1 burning wish (wouldn't play that card)
- 1 ad nauseam
- 3 preordain
Against uwr delver:
+ 2 chain of vapour
+ 3 Young Pyromancer
-1 ad nauseam
-3 preordain
-1 cabal ritual
Against uwr miracle
+3 abrupt decay
+3 young Pyromancer
-1 swamp
-4 lotus petal
-1 preordain
Someone also suggested to cut all the lions eye diamonds instead of lotus petals against miracle but i'm not convinced yet.
Just wanted to say thanks again for the advice :). In the end, after reading a bit more of this thread as well, I came to the conclusion that I should trust the very widespread opinion that Burning Wish was bad, and so took a pretty different sideboard:
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Enter the Warrens
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Pyroclasm
2 Dread of Night
The evening (though very enjoyable) went pretty badly from a games point of view - but so one might expect, after taking such a long break from playing :). Xantid Swarm was great - it didn't win me any games, but it felt like it gave me a chance in a long Miracles game that would otherwise have been totally unwinnable (in both our games he had counterbalance+top by t2 or t3... and a hand of counters). Sadly, after keeping a mulligan containing a Tendrils, I lost one game against Deathblade (I think? not too familiar with current archetypes - :b::u::g::w: with lots of Deathrite Shaman) to t1 Thoughtseize+Surgical Extraction on Tendrils. So that wasn't an entirely fictional scenario... ;)
Do you prefer Chain over Decay to fight Meddling Mages and Rest in Pieces? I'm always debated on which of the two to board in for games where I expect Meddling Mage and RIP. I'm really interested in listening to your opinion if you want to share it :smile: In exchange I'll tell my point: I usually prefer Decay because of uncounterability, but it is more mana intensive (but Uwr delver doesn't apply denial such as Canadian *****, and many lists doesn't have Stifles too). Also, it is more expected, so the second Mage will always name "Decay" meaning gg. Chain is more unexpected, less mana intensive and can be countered. I'm really unsure :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Thanks for advise!
Why you cut 1 cabal ritual vs a tempo oriented deck where its usualy a good card?
I also usualy prefer to play decay instead of chain against patriot cause it dodges the REBs my opp can have dead in hand.
Finaly Im not so sure of the sideboard vs miracles.
Why take petals out? they are usualy better tan Led in most situations where u wanna play a more "fair game" with them. I never side more tan 2 led out.
Also I usualy take out the island and not the swamp. I think in the combo turn you need more black tan blue. Cause you can suvive tha game with one blue but would wanna more black in the mid long run.
With my old list vs miracles I sidded like so:
+1 BW
+2 Toa
+3 decay
-1 preordain (still 2 sdt in main)
-1 PIF
-2 led
-1 infernal
-1 island
I usualy like to put pif out cause its bad vs RIP and then put Bw in because it can grab massacre, pif or the preordain.
Thanks again
@siqazi
I play the bw side and the extra tendrills to board against this matchups with discard + DRS/surgical I can get my tendrills removed and gethe on from the side and still win.
Ppl here dosnt agree but losing to my Toa removed have happened some times and the BW plan has come out as really good.