It doesn't work that way. Damage is assigned to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
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It doesn't work that way. Damage is assigned to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
But Wither still owns Protection from "color" creatures, right? Like if I had a 2/2 Black creature with Wither, and my opponent had a Pro Black Voice of All, does the Voice of All still die? I think it does, but not sure.
You know how you spot the powerful magic cards?
They're the ones that do things that no other card does.
Granted, prevention of life loss, the non-prevention of damage, and wither are all on other cards, but the combination of all three in one card, for so cheap (seriously, three mana, holy christ) is entirely unique.
Mainboard? No, but it's going to fundamentally alter the sideboarding strategies of quite a few decks.
No. Wither still "deals" the damage, but instead of having 2 points of damage on a creature, there would be -1/-1 counters applied instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Aha, "to creatures" ... it's obvious now :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare
Pro: Black prevents the application of the counters in the same way it prevents the damage from black creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
That sucks. I know Protection from "color" isn't too prevelant, but it's annoying to be shut down by a single Mother of Runes sometimes.
Right. That was my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare
Probably not because Wither "deals damage"... but the "can't be prevented" might get around that!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Ooo, but Everlasting Torment + Pestilence or Flamebreak or whatnot = Good times :cool: Time to make DrySpell.dec! :tongue:
I was agreeing with you, and clarifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
:eek:...I think the man is right. 'Damage can't be prevented' gets around prevention due to protection, right? I'd look up the relevant rule but I'm at work.
Mother of Runes is a woefully underplayed Tier 1 card.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
Wither, in itself, does not circumvent protection from a color. However, Everlasting Torment does.
502.7e Any damage that would be dealt by sources that have the stated quality to a permanent that has protection is prevented.
Correct. Wither by itself won't get around Pro:Color. The above enchantment, however, will.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Yes, it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinder
I remember when I used to board Flaring Pain against Moment's Peace. It was tech.
Everlasting Torment doesn't seem that great, it doesn't do anything on it's own for three mana. Unless I'm severely underestimating Wither.
Or we could start building decent manabases. Just saying. Feels like I've said that a lot lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
I hold the same opinion, and it was implicit in the 'horrible' comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTroll
Whither...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
...punks Goyf, bad.
...lets direct damage (with Everlasting Torment) kill a Stuffy Doll without triggering the ability(!) (not the best Legacy example, but still, it's a neat trick).
...lets weenies meaningfully gang up on huge monsters from turn-to-turn.
...kills the new Persist mechanic (yeh, yeh).
...is just BETTER than damage with respect to critters. (Didn't WoTC say they wanted to make the combat phase meaningful again?)
Wither might not break the game wide open, but it's a nice new mechanic to have exist.
Man, that Umezawa's Jitte card is fucking trash. It doesn't do anything on it's own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
And Bridge From Below? Fucking christ, you can't even play it.
Oh, and what about Goblin Piledri... wait, nevermind.
Jeez, what an asshole :laugh: :laugh:
:wink:
Leechridden Swamp
Land - Swamp (U)
Leechridden Swamp comes into play tapped.
:b:, tap: Each opponent loses 1 life. Play this ability only if you control two or more black permanents.
Thoughts on this card?
You seem to have misunderstood my conjecture. Although it does nothing on it's own, it doesn't seem worth the mana for the effects. Jitte is colourless removal, pump, and life gain. Bridge from Below creates creatures for free. Piledriver can suddenly swing for seven. Everlasting Torment prevents life gain, damage prevention, and changes the way creatures hurt each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
Woo-hoo.
Better than Hecatomb?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
It's life loss, not damage, that's nice.
Then I guess you'll be letting other people do the legwork to make this useful? It's not like anyone uses creatures or anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
It's solid in any black based control decks, esp if they can fetch for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I for one will be running a single copy or possibly two in Pox (can fetch it with fetchlands).
And I'll be playing it in MBC as well.
Do the new CIPT cycle not actually produce mana?
They do. If a card has a basic land type, it taps for appropriate mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
For a control deck, when is it better then just removing the creatures outright? In red you have a multitude of burn spells to remove creatures. In black, you have Smother, Shriekmaw, and an almost uncountable number of other ways to remove creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
In aggro deck, how is this better then just dropping a creature? In red you have Sulpher Elemental and the oft game ending Magus of the Moon. In black you have Confidant and several other legitimate threats at two black.
Wither is good, but so good it's worth 3 mana and a card? Things like Glorious Anthem and Orcish Oriflamme dont see a lick of play, and aren't useless when the opponent has no creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Persist, for one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
A Mister T. Mongoose calling for you. He doesn't want you to block him with your Wither-creature, but he DOES invite you to attempt to burn or Terror him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
Magus fills a COMPLETELY different role than...wait, what was your point with that? Anyhow, with N.Torment out, your Pyroclasms become RELEVANT to creatures bigger than x/2, for just one example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
It's not a solution to anything -- but I can see it enhancing certain strategies.
I will not lie, you got me there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
So you propose playing a three costing enchantment to deal with just Mongoose? Even when there's a new Pyroclasm that deals three in the same set?Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
My point was that there are better things that an aggro or control deck can do, for the same or less mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Yes, it enhances things. However, it doesn't seem worth the mana, and I especially don't think this is true;Quote:
Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenieBopper
I predict that it will see play in burn/sligh decks as an all-in-one answer to CoP: Red/Sphere of Law, Pulse of the Fields/assorted lifegain, and the Worship + Silver Knight combo (if anyone still plays that). Oh, and obviously against Karach's Energy Field/Lamejaptranslation Wheel combo once my deck absolutely dominates the format.
And that will be it.
I may be still the only person who cares about Fossil Find, but outside the combo potential i see, i think some one also pointed this out: combined with cards like Jotun Grunt and tog it very well can be a recollect for only R or G
Which is good, but the question is: is it a fair trade to cost 1 colourless mana less (than Regrowth) in exchange for requiring another combo piece?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cire
Also, the 'combo' is not as easy as it looks; with Grunt, you will have to wait a few turns to clean your yard from the chaff, and you may not be able to do that at all (what if there are two cards left?). With Psychatog, you have to sacrifice all the food that one assumes you were saving up to turn Tog into a huge monster at a more appropriate time - say, when clashing against a fattie or your opponent's face.
You're kidding, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
If you are playing Green clearly Regrowth is better, coincidently Regrowth sees next to no play... this new card is bad.
Would Fossil Find work with Boisium Strip combo decks? For fun/casuals of course.....
I see fossil find good in two situations, the first is in combo decks. You play a bunch of rituals and tutors and then play a fossil find (1 of probably) and what do you get? another ritual or tutor for only R/G, for example in storm combo you play a Mountain + SSG then Rite of flame and Seething song. Now if you play your fossil find you'll either add +2 storm count or add +2 storm count and R mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil
With the Psychotog deck and the Jotun Grunt deck lets see what your returning. for Jotun grunt your probably playing W/R or the kind so: either Fetchlands/Burn/removal...either one would be good for you, only problem is that it'll be random, but less random then just R: draw a card. Same for the Tog you'll either be returning a counter/fetchland/removal/ or discard. none of which is bad for you, over all its better than R: Draw a card and it comes with the possibility of being a regrowth for 1.
Im not advocating to run it as a 4 of in these type of decks, on the contrary i expect it to be run as a singleton, since multiples are bad.
That's kind of useful in Tomb/City mana bases, I could see a Stax esq deck running it for one reason or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryTroll
Not at all. Paradise Mantle+Puresight Merrow turns every draw into a Demonic Consultation -- getting the two together should basically be "I win". Maybe it's better to combine it with counterbalance, or brainstorm, or a spring tide/solidarity style finish. I guess Shelldock Isle -> whatever isn't necessarily the best way to finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by URABAHN
Combine that little combo with Future Sight or Magus of the future.....